From MMORG.COM

[Ctuchik]

A lot of the people that renewed wow for tbc did it for the arena pvp system not the new pve (which is basically the old pve with 10 levels added and the encounters tuned for 25 instead of 40 people.)

In daoc the general attitude to pve is that its a necessary evil to get the gear you need to compete in pvp, in wow its the end game for a lot of people. The only way pve can be endgame content in an mmo is if its challenging imo, and neither the current (afaik since i've not played for around a year) or the new planned content is or seems challenging (i.e. everything can and is zerged by however many players want to do said encounter).

no, the problem is that the crafters in DAoC keep begging to make all the best gear. theres nothing bar artifacts ppl want from the pve part of DAoC and soon hardly even that. THATS where WoW hit the spot. there is a shedload of stuff u can only get from pve and a equal ammount u can only get from crafting and almost just as much from pvp. and ALL of it is wanted depending if u pve or pvp. there is no 1 thing that can do both things equally good like the crafted gear in DAoC do in WoW.

theres specific pvp gear and specific pve gear. no overcharge, no radom quality gear, no capped/overcapped everything. what u make is what u get, no more no less. no buffbots, every class is needed and every class is fully able to defend itself if need be. pvp got a whole lot more fun this expansion due to the buffing the BG NPC's got so they aint ending in 5 minutes flat anymore, whole lot of quests acually give useful rewards (something DAoC lack horribly).

and, the biggest + in WoW, u can QUEST all the way up to lvl 70. no sitting at one camp for hours on end spamming a anytime style/semi afking while the buffbotted pet do all the killing for you. sure, the combat pets in WoW is able to kill stuff on their own to. u just dont get anything for it unless u activly attack it also.

only thing i dont like about WoW atm is all the freaking addons.

 

[Elftor]

no, the problem is that the crafters in DAoC keep begging to make all the best gear. theres nothing bar artifacts ppl want from the pve part of DAoC and soon hardly even that. THATS where WoW hit the spot. there is a shedload of stuff u can only get from pve and a equal ammount u can only get from crafting and almost just as much from pvp. and ALL of it is wanted depending if u pve or pvp. there is no 1 thing that can do both things equally good like the crafted gear in DAoC do in WoW.

theres specific pvp gear and specific pve gear. no overcharge, no radom quality gear, no capped/overcapped everything. what u make is what u get, no more no less. no buffbots, every class is needed and every class is fully able to defend itself if need be. pvp got a whole lot more fun this expansion due to the buffing the BG NPC's got so they aint ending in 5 minutes flat anymore, whole lot of quests acually give useful rewards (something DAoC lack horribly).

and, the biggest + in WoW, u can QUEST all the way up to lvl 70. no sitting at one camp for hours on end spamming a anytime style/semi afking while the buffbotted pet do all the killing for you. sure, the combat pets in WoW is able to kill stuff on their own to. u just dont get anything for it unless u activly attack it also.

only thing i dont like about WoW atm is all the freaking addons.

Yeah the "quests" is in WoW is really a nice change!!
Instead of roaming a dungeon you get to "Kill X at Y area" or "Collect X at Y area" or even better "Kill X and collect Y at Z area". INNOVATIVE indeed! Why hadnt I thought of that! That way, you get to both waste your time running, and grind at the same time, such brilliance!

Im not sure if you think its a good or a bad thing that the players actualy get to control part of the market. Personaly I think the more control a player gets over the market the better. Screw having to do the same fucking dungeon and the same fucking mobs over and over and over again till you either get item X by chance or by DKP. The difference between DAoC crafting and WoW is that in WoW it's generic crap that you cant use once you get decent gear, and in DAoC its crap that you need and you can actualy fit to your needs. Now please tell me which one is a useless feature.

About "pvp" in WoW - it's really not... It's what Mythic/Goa been trying to avoid since day one, RP farming. Only in WoW, it's disguised as pvp. WoW pvp takes no skills and is all about your gear(and consumeables). Every class can do it well, since every class is basicly the same as the next one. Must be hard to balance 8 classes when they all pretty much mimics each other!

The only thing that WoW did good is the raid encounters, first couple of times when your learning the encounter is good fun. But thats it.

WoW is good if your 15 years old or it's your first MMO.
DAoC is still the king when it comes to RvR but it's dead.

So heres me waiting for the next pvp game :S

 

[Ctuchik]

Yeah the "quests" is in WoW is really a nice change!!
Instead of roaming a dungeon you get to "Kill X at Y area" or "Collect X at Y area" or even better "Kill X and collect Y at Z area". INNOVATIVE indeed! Why hadnt I thought of that! That way, you get to both waste your time running, and grind at the same time, such brilliance!

theres no diffrence between WoW quests and DAoC quests other then the rewards in WoW acually have uses AND theers alot OF item rewards. and theres enough quests to make u not have to fight others for the "leet" camp spots, and the XP u get from the quests in WoW way way compensate for the running as u get 2 - 3 times what u would get from grinding, even with rested xp on.

and i dont have a problem with the players controlling the market. what i DO have a problem with is ppl charging ludicrous(sp?) ammounts for "rare" items just because u can "twink" with them. making the new players totaly unable to acually buy those items. i mean, 80 gold for a lvl 19 weapon? u'd be lucky if u had 10 at lvl 19. hell u probably wont get that kind of cash until ur 30+, at wich point that weapon is totally useless. THAT is what i have a problem with.

and about the pvp, yes its alot about what gear u have, but its in no way a win or loose thing as theres no such thing as FG versus FG in WoW. it doesent really matter how good gear u have when 10/15 or 40 ppl wants u dead. and its alot more tactics involved in the BG's then most ppl think. especially in the large raid BG. because, if u dont think in there u loose in 5 minutes.

and the only place ppl use consumables in pvp is in the CTF BG, and then, only free action potions and speed potions when ur carrying the flag as many of the potions uses the same cooldown timer its not smart to burn a health potion when u can use a better one.

 

[Sparklehorse]

. what i DO have a problem with is ppl charging ludicrous(sp?) ammounts for "rare" items just because u can "twink" with them. making the new players totaly unable to acually buy those items. i mean, 80 gold for a lvl 19 weapon? u'd be lucky if u had 10 at lvl 19. hell u probably wont get that kind of cash until ur 30+, at wich point that weapon is totally useless. THAT is what i have a problem with..

You sire have been repped , tho its something i have said b4 myself , yes theres a lot of retarded prices in housing, so much greed, its quite sickening. Having played all 3 realms i have to say Mid and Hib generally seem to be much more expenisve then alb tho id assume thats down to the population. But yes, some of the prices are ridiculous...

In the old days i used to farm mobs from catacombs when it first came out, these drops in the 40-50s, people generally put at a generic price on the CM's ..

ZOMIGOD !!1 IT HAS +3% PARRY , THAT SOUNDS COOL - 2plat..
These items are so silly easily farmed, i used to sell the same items for like 200g , problem is a lot of the time tho, if there isnt many of an item on a cm and some buffoon puts it for a silly price, the others who get one and dont know what its worth will follow his suit. And yes , Rogs r stupid prices, have a check today, look at some of the ones with +Any toa bonus on, ull find rogs with shite stats and maybe say +3quick cap for 1-2p , purely because some noob or greedy bastard has seen it has a cap on it so .. oooh it must be worth something. Its not, and i totally agree with u, twinking helps people out so much at low lvl where they r forced to solo due to not many new players, and yet, gold is so hard to get, theyre forced to go around in crap unless they beg. Oh and also ... do us all a favour, and if u put items on your CM for Extra vault space.. Why the hell price them up ? its so annyoing having to trawl thru lots of extra stuff thats like lvl 20 and 40p , and potions, stop hiding 5p potions inbetween your 5g ones, its this kind of shit that helps ruin community spirit even more

Dont get me wrong there is some sensible people on housing too, i have seen semi good rogs for like 2-3g , hell i even see ones with good stat caps for 20 odd, and most people r starting to realise aurulite (which is very helpful for lowbies armour/wep where lvl 50 rogs would break in 2 fights) isnt actually worth 1p a piece , saw a whole house the other day with like 100auru for 50g...

Anyways i gone completely off subject lol... rant over

 

[Elftor]

theres no diffrence between WoW quests and DAoC quests other then the rewards in WoW acually have uses AND theers alot OF item rewards. and theres enough quests to make u not have to fight others for the "leet" camp spots, and the XP u get from the quests in WoW way way compensate for the running as u get 2 - 3 times what u would get from grinding, even with rested xp on.

and i dont have a problem with the players controlling the market. what i DO have a problem with is ppl charging ludicrous(sp?) ammounts for "rare" items just because u can "twink" with them. making the new players totaly unable to acually buy those items. i mean, 80 gold for a lvl 19 weapon? u'd be lucky if u had 10 at lvl 19. hell u probably wont get that kind of cash until ur 30+, at wich point that weapon is totally useless. THAT is what i have a problem with.

and about the pvp, yes its alot about what gear u have, but its in no way a win or loose thing as theres no such thing as FG versus FG in WoW. it doesent really matter how good gear u have when 10/15 or 40 ppl wants u dead. and its alot more tactics involved in the BG's then most ppl think. especially in the large raid BG. because, if u dont think in there u loose in 5 minutes.

and the only place ppl use consumables in pvp is in the CTF BG, and then, only free action potions and speed potions when ur carrying the flag as many of the potions uses the same cooldown timer its not smart to burn a health potion when u can use a better one.

So you think it's more fun to travel and look for whatever it is your suppose to kill/collect then it is to dungeon crawl or just to kill stuff? And no, generaly unless you gather quests and know where the stuff is it's still faster to grind then it is to level on quests. I'm not saying DAoC's pve grind is better or worse, I just prefer utilizing my character over doing nothing but watch my screen when playing a MMO.

Twinking been around since forever. Hell, I remember spending millions of platinum on my twinks in EQ, it's no where as bad in WoW and it wont ever be because you can easily pick up gear by going to a dungeon once in a while when leveling. I dont think twinking is bad at all, and when theres a way to gain a advantage players will take it, allways been like that.
However, that got little to do with player controlled economy. It cant be player controlled when it is regulated by droprate/demand rather then regulated by cost/demand.

Again the problem with WoW pvp is that it isnt really pvp. It's a freaking RP grind. The BGs in wow is there for one reason, so people can get a quick thrill. And when you say theres alot of tactics involved especialy in the raid BG ofcourse you mean luck, right? I dont see the tactics involved in summoning first or being lucky that people listen to those who know how to win.

It's not pvp, its not your skill thats being tested, or even your teams skill(speaking about set teams). Anyone with half a brain can win a CTF or VP BG with a set team, all it takes is everyone to listen. The worse thing about the BGs is they take people away from world pvp on the pvp servers. But then, instances allready do enough to fuck up world pvp as is.

WoW wont ever have good pvp, they got just about everything to kill it.

 

[Elftor]

You sire have been repped , tho its something i have said b4 myself , yes theres a lot of retarded prices in housing, so much greed, its quite sickening. Having played all 3 realms i have to say Mid and Hib generally seem to be much more expenisve then alb tho id assume thats down to the population. But yes, some of the prices are ridiculous...

In the old days i used to farm mobs from catacombs when it first came out, these drops in the 40-50s, people generally put at a generic price on the CM's ..

ZOMIGOD !!1 IT HAS +3% PARRY , THAT SOUNDS COOL - 2plat..
These items are so silly easily farmed, i used to sell the same items for like 200g , problem is a lot of the time tho, if there isnt many of an item on a cm and some buffoon puts it for a silly price, the others who get one and dont know what its worth will follow his suit. And yes , Rogs r stupid prices, have a check today, look at some of the ones with +Any toa bonus on, ull find rogs with shite stats and maybe say +3quick cap for 1-2p , purely because some noob or greedy bastard has seen it has a cap on it so .. oooh it must be worth something. Its not, and i totally agree with u, twinking helps people out so much at low lvl where they r forced to solo due to not many new players, and yet, gold is so hard to get, theyre forced to go around in crap unless they beg. Oh and also ... do us all a favour, and if u put items on your CM for Extra vault space.. Why the hell price them up ? its so annyoing having to trawl thru lots of extra stuff thats like lvl 20 and 40p , and potions, stop hiding 5p potions inbetween your 5g ones, its this kind of shit that helps ruin community spirit even more

Dont get me wrong there is some sensible people on housing too, i have seen semi good rogs for like 2-3g , hell i even see ones with good stat caps for 20 odd, and most people r starting to realise aurulite (which is very helpful for lowbies armour/wep where lvl 50 rogs would break in 2 fights) isnt actually worth 1p a piece , saw a whole house the other day with like 100auru for 50g...

Anyways i gone completely off subject lol... rant over

If the items is overpriced one of two things will happen :
Someone thinks it is worth it and will buy it - hence it wasnt overpriced.
No one will buy it and either the seller will lower the price to something more reasonable.

Either way, I dont see how thats a problem. I used to put my vault items up on my CM for rediculous plat, and sometimes they sold sometimes not. If they sold great, I could buy the same item and still make a profit or I'd go farm it again. If you dont think the item is worth it dont buy it, eventualy the price will drop if people really want to sell.

 

[Flimgoblin]

I think with the lowbie items for 80g it's more likely to be "no idea how much this is worth - 80g is cheap isn't it?" rather than "muahuhau I will charge 20 times the market value for this level 19 item! buhauhauh!"

 

[Bahumat]

/points at Burning Crusade...

worked for WoW

People give "good PvE" far too little credit.

This is perfectly true. Im not able to play for hours on end like i used to, so to compete is difficult when your opponents stats are much greater than yours.

With TBC we are all leveling to 70, the jump from 60 to 61 is 250,000xp. You get roughly 10k per quest and around 1k xp per mob (if using rested xp).
The quests are well laid out and they're fun to do. For instance, in the main area for lvl 60 players there is a level 70 elite mob roaming round. Its quite fun when your fighting a mob, someone jumps you and they then agro the lvl 70 thus saving your ass!.

Also as the area is contested, you can pve or pvp...or both.

The rewards are amazing too. Imagine if DAoC brought out a lvl 50 to 60 expansion, then the new zone had quests which dropped items which were better than artefacts! You would not have to waste endless hours doing poxy artefacts plus us casual players can still slowly but surely get equipped.

PVE Expansions can be fun when you know you'll gain so much from doing them, and as they're not impossible to do, you wont mind doing it.

 

[SkarIronfist]

I personally find questing in WoW a more pleasurable experience than DAOC. Definitely alot more quests that can be done in 20/30 mins and then you can log having achieved something.

I definitely think time taken for a quest versus the reward is important. I think that the questing in DOAC is short of options, the interface is poor (Though WoWs without the Addons is poor as well) and is generally feels unsatisfying.

I am hoping that Warhammer will improve things.