Friar and Cleric who does what?

[old.Bowen]

I have been in a number small groups of late and there seems to be much confusion on who does what role.

I was in a group the other day with a mistrel, a merc, a cleric and me the friar.

Now we were killing relativley easy mobs but it just seemed to go horribly wrong.

I have put all my points into Staffs and the cleric had put all his into Smite now who should be doing the healing? The cleric was at a distance throwing smites I was up close and aggro was to and fro'ing between me and the merc.

Now I always thought clerics main advantage was their healing capabilitys and the friar as a useful support healer but if I'm in the thick of it dealing damage every 3secs with my uber staff surely by the time I have step back healed I'd have all the aggro on me?

There seems to be a lack of understanding about the Friar, and even more so of what roles folk should be playing

It actually came to the point when me (friar) and my Merc friend were taking oranges last night and had to turn a cleric down from the group as we just didn't think it was worth the hastle as 1)we were more than capable of taking the mobs and 2)feared he/she was just another wannabe wiz !

your thoughts please...

 

[Addlcove]

if no clerics in group friars heal, if cleric in group compare rejuc spec points, whoever has the most heals, friars and clerics heals equally, but friars only get lvl*1 and clerics get lvl*2, which often results in clerics having more rejuv specc than a friar, but main rule is most rejuv spec points heal, another good tip is let the friar do the necesarry ground buff (yellow buffs) that will leave the cleric more conc to do greenbuffs.

 

[old.Orinoco Friar]

Couldn't agree more.....

One way I found works well, is if you take alternate mobs. You hit while cleric heals (unless getting low on power), then next mob you heal and cleric smites (if you're unlucky enough to recruit a smite cleric into the group). Obviously a rejuve spec cleric is best of all, but they seem to be a rather rare breed

Obviously it would be better if you were giving out divine retribution to each and every mob that was foolish enough to cross your path, but sometimes the Lord calls for our patience

Orinoco

 

[old.chesnor]

I always was insanely jealous of most other healing classes in this game when I played my Healer (no offensive spells, no specced weapon). I know realise after having played alb and hib a while that this is a masterstroke from Mythic.

Its obvious to me now that offering healer classes an offensive spell line or specced weapon means the majority will spec it high. Therefore healing will suffer, and therefore groups will need more of these classes to provide the healing required to survive. Therefore less room for tanks/nukers.

Probably why Midgard levels quicker eh ?

And to answer your question Bowen, the char who has the best heals should heal, regardless of class.

 

[Vell]

I disagree, the cleric should be doing the healing. Why?
Because a friar specced in staves will have a considerebly higher damage output than a smite cleric, and for a lot less downtime (end comes back quicker than power). The cleric should be speccing at least some in rej to get the insta heals. If he doesn't, then he is a fool. Therefore it is best for the cleric to heal.

 

[old.dittytwo]

Originally posted by Bedwin
if no clerics in group friars heal, if cleric in group compare rejuc spec points, whoever has the most heals, friars and clerics heals equally, but friars only get lvl*1 and clerics get lvl*2

From a Clerics point of view
I wish we did get *2.0 but we only get lvl*1.0 in spec points
which does make it hard for us at low lvls to spec right smiting is easier for us to lvl at lower lvls..

I tend to sit at the back and Smite
if a player needs a heal by the time that I have manged to target the player that is dealt the DMG and got a heal off he is normally dead (this means that the monster the group was fighting was way too high for the group IMHO).

after the fight I normally then use up any power left to heal all the tanks and anyone else that was hit..

I do however try to pay close attention to the spellers as they tned to die really quick and small heal will normally heal them in one go (low HP)

 

[Alrindel]

I think the friar is the fat jolly one who sits on the huge barrel of ale waving his staff around, and the cleric is the one who purses his lips and wrings his hands all the time, tsking about violence and lax morals.

But I haven't actually played Albion so I can't be sure.

 

[old.Beleriand]

Just to correct an error that occured in earlier post

Both cleric and friar get 1 * lvl spec points. Well they do at the moment. :sleeping:

But in patch 1.46 Mythic gave friars 1.5 * lvl spec points.

That's all I wanted to say about it ... btw it should be agreed in the group who does what. :touch:

 

[Orin Askhammare]

Originally posted by dittytwo

I tend to sit at the back and Smite
if a player needs a heal by the time that I have manged to target the player that is dealt the DMG and got a heal off he is normally dead (this means that the monster the group was fighting was way too high for the group IMHO).

after the fight I normally then use up any power left to heal all the tanks and anyone else that was hit..

Now I really know why middie levels faster If with a good group you're fighting mobs that you can kill without any healing required on the main tank you are bound to have rather bad xp. We have been fighting mobs at times that hit me for 200+ twice in a row with me having 800+ hitpoints. Great xp

 

[Vell]

Originally posted by Nucleus


with me having 800+ hitpoints.

Thanes are poo I have more hp then you

 

[old.Bowen]

Originally posted by dittytwo

I tend to sit at the back and Smite
if a player needs a heal by the time that I have manged to target the player that is dealt the DMG and got a heal off he is normally dead (this means that the monster the group was fighting was way too high for the group IMHO).

This is exaclty why clerics should be the ones healing? I've had many groups where the cleric would be better sitting out the way and casting heals on those who need it, lets face it an armsman that stays alive is better than any amount of smites a cleric can cast.
This is what fustrates me, so many times have I found a cleric smiting then the armsman gets low on hit points only for the friggin cleric to shout LOM - wtf is that about?

Grrrrrrrr

 

[Vell]

Exactly. Clerics remember - you are the primary HEALER and BUFFER of Albion. You are NOT the primary blaster, let the mages do that. Use your mana to heal, spec in rejuvenation, and you will find that you, and everyone you group with, will level a hell of a lot quicker.

 

[Smartypants]

Even though I'm speced towards smite I still think that, in a group, a clerics main role is to heal. You hear that, smite freaks, heal! That's why you are there, to keep the tanks alive...

So I only smite when I can see that there is room for it. If there's any doubt, I stay off the smiting and concentrate on keeping the other players alive.

If you disagree with me, I think you should go play a wiz or something

 

[Vell]

McSmart=a good cleric

Well, no, all clerics are bad bad bad, but he is doing his job i guess, so he deserves to be congratulated.

 

[Cadwallon]

First point is that noone should tell you how to play your char. You pays your money and you play as you want.

But play the char badly and you will find out you have to solo alot, play it well and you will be asked to group the moment you enter a zone. We clerics don't insist that all tanks must be sword/board specced so I don't see why we should be told how to spec.

I am a smiter yet have also been the sole healer on groups doing gobs, tanglers, celts and any other mob you can think of. The way a cleric plays within the group really depends on the type of mob you are hunting. I play to the following guidelines when grouped:

1. Only cleric in group - heal and stun

2. Cleric and Friar - heal and stun

3. Purple mobs - heal and stun (so many smite resists it is waste of power)

4. Undead Mobs - Often smiting is more productive then healing as a smiter will outdamage anyone on undeads. Killing the mob quickly prevents the need for healing but at 50% power stop smiting)

 

[old.Crib]

A clerics priorty should ALWAYS be healing when in a group. Even if another cleric is primary healer and the group leader tells you are ok to nuke, you should still be able to throw a heal if needed.

I`ll employ a wizard if I just want a nuke meister Your in my group cause you can keep me alive.

Plus don`t underestimate the damage output of the Friar. I`ll invite em into my group every time.

Just a nieve Mercenarys view

 

[old.Nim]

Well, I'm a friar, and I'm often the only healer in the group I'm in, so I tend to do quite a bit of healing. But sometimes the staff calls, and I'm not specced as a specialist healer... so if there is a cleric in my group I just talk it out with them. More often than not they offer to do at least some of the healing - their instant heals are extremely valuable, as my healing often seems a little slow or small in comparison.

As for the smiting, I think it depends on the cleric. Many that I know keep some mana just in case they need to heal, otherwise they smite. In the same way, I often heal for half a fight, and then, if people don't need it so much, I join in and fight to get rid of the beastie as quick as possible afterwards.

It is hard always healing when you know you're a good fighter. And it is sometimes hard to watch clerics stand by you and smite - but in the end who heals is a decision that you need to make and need to arrange beforehand. I also know a Cabalist who often heals during battle - which always confuses me, until I remember about it.

 

[old.Brutallus]

newbie post

I am just 5.8 lvl Cleric (first character in DAoC), but yesterday groupped twice and found that:

1) in first group I wanted/tried to smite, healing when needed - effects: sometimes I was able to heal dying, sometimes not; slowly people disband and quickly 6ppl group reduced to 1man grp

2) than I joined another grp, started like before but fortunately at the very beginning one guy died; others commented "wtf is it? can't you just heal ?" so I started healing; the end was I was offered to join a guild and everyone commented how nice grp it was, and how bad it is that we must go to bed...

on the other hand the day before I was together just with 1 Arms and we were able to kill stuff FAR quicker when I was smiting all the time (almost), healing only after the battle

so it seems to me that it is a matter of balance what situation/mob/group it is (like post before), but generally when in grps 4+ people I am going to heal only

(and my answer to initial question of this topis is: Cleric heal, Friar fights + support healing)

 

[old.Beleriand]

Don't try to tell other people what they should do or shouldn't do. It all depends on the situation of the group.

When I get into group my first priority is to cast heals. But there are some exceptions when I'm more useful casting smites than heals.

1. Group has 3 paladins and all of them use hp regen chant. Not much of need to cast heals there.

2. Group has 2 other clerics besides me. When the responsibilities are divided between clerics I can cast 1-2 smites between heals just to speed things up.

3. I'm in small group: me and 1-2 tanks. And we fight 1-2 mobs at the same time and tanks seem to have hard time to deal damage to the mob. Then I see it justified to cast few smites. :whip:

At the moment my cleric is quite evenly specced in rejuv,smite and enhance. My goal is to train enhance to 40, rejuv to 26 and smite to 25. :uhoh:

Not so sure how wise that is, but that's how it's going to be.

 

[cadiva]

Originally posted by Cadwallon
First point is that noone should tell you how to play your char. You pays your money and you play as you want.

I agree totally, I have a lvl 16 cleric who is mostly rejuv/enhance specced, but I also have points in smite for the very reason Cadwallon mentions - to do major damage against undead mobs.

No-one should tell you how to play your class, but when grouped you should make sure the group knows if you are a smite specced cleric so they don't expect instant group heals.

Ariellan Cordeth
Exiles of Avalon

 

[old.Bowen]

Originally posted by Cadiva


No-one should tell you how to play your class, but when grouped you should make sure the group knows if you are a smite specced cleric so they don't expect instant group heals.

Ariellan Cordeth
Exiles of Avalon

So in a group of 4/5 and you were smited up and the friar was staffed up - would you say sorry I'm a smited and that was that or would you offer to heal?

 

[old.Brutallus]

small correction

guys, let me point that I said "I AM going..." & "MY answer..." - not "you should..." or "you must..."

 

[old.dittytwo]

Re: small correction

ok when i said that is what i normally do that is turn that was ina group of 8 of us on the plains

smaller groups it would really depend on what the hell you was fightin'

clerics can easily take yellow mobs soloing, undead we can take orange (just).

the way i see it i go into a fight cast a smit if it is resited them i switch to my heal spell, if the monster is half helath and so are some of my team then i heal otherwise it is better for the team to get the mob dead quicker to move on to the next.

so i will heal even though i am a smite specced cleric.
IMHO

i would recomend that you do it the way you want to heal all the time if you want but hell BORING or what.

ok heal only cleric
he is dying heal him
oh he is dying heal him
oh he is dying heal him
oh he is dying heal him
wow =BORING (for me anyway)

add smite to that it is
smite cleric
smite mob
player is dying heal
smite mob
other player is dying heal
mez add
smite and finish off mob
heal players whilst attacking add
get in there with mace and the bounus attack to the mace (another smite spell)
= fun
IMHO

 

[old.Alwych]

All the people in here moaning about smiters can go whine elsewhere. I personally dont know which heals do what as i never use them hardly ever and im enjoying the game alot. Curently level 36 and rising fast.

Im a smite cleric not a healer. I have mezz stun, smite, heals and a mace and can wear chain. I dont read anywhere in the terms and conditions of this game that i am not allowed to use the spec line of smite. If it is there then i AM allowed to use it and WILL use it as much as i like and like i said to hell with the whiners who try to tell anyone how to play their class.

Any of you that disagree can talk to the hand because you are all the sort of people that ask to join a happy group then start moaning that its crap exp and we should move onto something tougher blabla.....death death death.

Its these whiny attitudes that have forced me to play with a couple of people and/or solo all my levels. When hunting pygmy gobbos that are purp to me sure i will heal and try to stun and mez because my smites are resisted alot but other than that i will do what i like.

If you dont like how someone is playing their class dont group with them just stop coming onto these boards and crying about clerics that dont 100% heal heal heal. I dont tell a sorceror when to mezz or an armsman when to taunt or a minstrel when to speed song so dont damn well tell clerics when to heal.

You want to do better then roll up a rejuv spec cleric an have fun
as i think you will find maybe half a dozen clerics on each server that spec more than 23 in rejuv.

SMITE SMITE SMITE SMITE

Let the pallys rez let the friars heal an let us do what we do best....SMITE

Alwych Dragonbane
Wizzy in chain
36th season

 

[old.Bowen]

Re: Re: small correction

Originally posted by dittytwo

add smite to that it is
smite cleric
smite mob
player is dying heal
smite mob
other player is dying heal
mez add
smite and finish off mob
heal players whilst attacking add
get in there with mace and the bounus attack to the mace (another smite spell)
= fun
IMHO

If only all smite clerics shared your sensiblilty

here's what I've experienced in three encounters with smite clerics of late


smite mob
player is dying
smite mob
other player is dying
failed mez add
smite and get aggro
shout LOM when heal players whilst attacking add
get in there with mace and the bounus attack with the mace(another smite spell)
and watch other players run and drop around you
then shout wtf happened why weren't you healing friar?
= not so much fun

I guess I have just been unlucky as when I was on the american servers it seemed most clerics knew how to play, it just seems to me that smiting has come as a bit of a fad (be it good or bad) and that folk are taking it out of context and using it as there all and nothing else skill and negating their natural ability to heal
Or is it that there are many folk that haven't played a MMOPRPG before and are still learning the ropes but I'll save that for another thread hehe.

If the pure smiters took a look at Dittytwo's example the world would be a better place

You're probably thinking well wtf does a friar do then? I jump out of battle when aggro builds on the cleric or hp's are falling quicker than the cleric can handle then I heal him if necessary then share the healing between us, as previously mention a suplimentry healer

 

[old.Bowen]

Originally posted by Alwych
Its these whiny attitudes that have forced me to play with a couple of people and/or solo all my levels.

you're a popular guy then - will you continue to solo in RvR?

sometime you may have to be faced with the word group and you may have to start thinking about whats best for you all

 

[Ifalna]

Originally posted by Alwych
Im a smite cleric not a healer. I have mezz stun, smite, heals and a mace and can wear chain. I dont read anywhere in the terms and conditions of this game that i am not allowed to use the spec line of smite. If it is there then i AM allowed to use it and WILL use it as much as i like and like i said to hell with the whiners who try to tell anyone how to play their class.

Fine. That's your choice and a perfectly valid one. Just don't expect anyone to want to group with you (if they want a caster they'll probably get a pure caster instead). Smite clerics are pretty good solo and very good rvr, but they're not very group friendly (well actually the PBAE mezz is pretty damn useful in groups).

The one thing that I think is very important is, if someone invites you into a group, please let them know beforehand that you will not be healing so they will know that they still need to find a healer. It should save a lot of arguments later.

 

[old.chesnor]

When smite clerics are looking for groups, they should say "oh, btw I'm a smite cleric, my healing is poor". I guess groups wouldn't be so keen then. I played alb to 23 with a sorc and got really frustrated dying because clerics were smiting when they could have been (and should have been) healing. And tbh friars were pretty thin on the ground.

 

[Flimgoblin]

I'm sure my cabalist heals more than some smiters...

Think of a smite cleric like a Body Cabalist, it can do damage and has some utility spells, and can heal as a last resort.

(except they don't die in two hits - or one if they've just transferred all their hp to the tank )

The same problem that applies to smite clerics who refuse to heal (as in Bowen's case) when it's utterly necessary is the same as applies to fighters who won't taunt or cabalists that wont life-swap. Or wizards that cast too fast and end up with the aggro every fight.... (tis a fine line to reach that one ... )

At the end of the day, play how you want - if people like your play style they'll continue to group with you.

 

[Smartypants]

Alwych: You are absolutely right, no one can tell you how to play your char. That is indeed your choice to make.

But if you don't tell the group about it, and show the same attitude about this as you displayed in your post, I think you can look forward to a long and hard solo career... No one wants a smite horny cleric in the group.

And before you start screaming: I'm not a rejuv cleric! I have about twice as many points in smite as in rejuv. But when the sheet starts to hit the proverbial fan, and your group mates are getting low on HP, then you will find out why they included you in the group in the first place... To keep them alive.

As I said earlier, if you want to nuke, play a wiz. And if you seriously think that you are a wiz in chain, you can't have seen much of what wizards can do. Your smites are a fart in outer space, compared to what a wiz can dish out.

But, as you said, it's your choice to make. Just be prepared to take the consequences of that choice. If you're not, then you are the one who's whining...