P
P()D-WeirDeX
Guest
Would it give a new dimension to both FreezeTAG and CTF ?, who's interested and who's not.
O
old.arQon
Guest
- Thread starter
- #2
Problem is, you get a kill or two and that's it: with the man advantage you cap while the enemy thaws. It's nice in theory but crap in practice - it just doesn't work.
O
old.Explosive23
Guest
- Thread starter
- #3
CPMA CTF would be nice though.
P
P()D-WeirDeX
Guest
- Thread starter
- #4
Actually
I think if you could Freeze all around the maps, that there would come a lot to the game. Like total new strategies, lesser camping, better planning and better team play. Ýou don't just run into the field fragging all around, you have to be carefull and play with your head. Has there ever been played a Freeze CTF war ?, i'm curious how it would go since i'm into CTF.
I think if you could Freeze all around the maps, that there would come a lot to the game. Like total new strategies, lesser camping, better planning and better team play. Ýou don't just run into the field fragging all around, you have to be carefull and play with your head. Has there ever been played a Freeze CTF war ?, i'm curious how it would go since i'm into CTF.
O
old.Eraser[CFS]
Guest
- Thread starter
- #5
arQon is right with that. FT CTF doesn't work well. We've had it running on the public servers for a while but it wasn't any fun. Get frozen in the enemy base in an attempt to grab the flag, and you're never thawed, because it's too hard with all the enemies guarding their own flag.
P
P()D-WeirDeX
Guest
- Thread starter
- #6
Well
That would be the purpose. It would force u to play as a team to get the enemy flag. If you just camp your own base it will end in a 0-0 score. And u could do a thawauto of 2 minutes or something ! Also the CTF tactics would totally change, PU's would get an extra dimension since u'd have to make a choice to either grab the flag, or mayB take down an entire base. Also what does your team do ?, do u attack all together, or leave some peeps behind in base. That sorts of stuff.
That would be the purpose. It would force u to play as a team to get the enemy flag. If you just camp your own base it will end in a 0-0 score. And u could do a thawauto of 2 minutes or something ! Also the CTF tactics would totally change, PU's would get an extra dimension since u'd have to make a choice to either grab the flag, or mayB take down an entire base. Also what does your team do ?, do u attack all together, or leave some peeps behind in base. That sorts of stuff.
O
old.[AF]haste
Guest
- Thread starter
- #7
Personally, I like the idea of a really short autothaw - even 30 seconds - for a FT CTF game. Maybe even a 1 to 2 second thaw time would work, too.
What we really need is a really configurable beta so a clan or two could test it out for a weekend to see what settings seem to be the best for gameplay.
The biggest gameplay consideration I can see is something arQon brought up - CTF and FT are really two totally different games, with totally different objectives. We'd have to see it less like FT CTF and more like CTF with a FT twist, if you get my drift. CTF with the ability to incapacitate other players for a short amount of time, or something similar - and direct all the design toward that goal.
That would be opposed to, "Hey let's play CTF and FT at the same time!" because AFAICT that just doesn't work.
What we really need is a really configurable beta so a clan or two could test it out for a weekend to see what settings seem to be the best for gameplay.
The biggest gameplay consideration I can see is something arQon brought up - CTF and FT are really two totally different games, with totally different objectives. We'd have to see it less like FT CTF and more like CTF with a FT twist, if you get my drift. CTF with the ability to incapacitate other players for a short amount of time, or something similar - and direct all the design toward that goal.
That would be opposed to, "Hey let's play CTF and FT at the same time!" because AFAICT that just doesn't work.
D
Doc^
Guest
- Thread starter
- #8
Was talking about this today.
Something like 3wave capture strike with freeze could work maybe.
sure some tweaks and deff some testing.
It is and idea and nothing wrong with them
But that is in the Future from what I am working on atm
Something like 3wave capture strike with freeze could work maybe.
sure some tweaks and deff some testing.
It is and idea and nothing wrong with them
But that is in the Future from what I am working on atm
P
P()D-WeirDeX
Guest
- Thread starter
- #9
OSP
Would only require that u can activate Freeze at the same time with CTF so should b build in in the mod then ?
Would only require that u can activate Freeze at the same time with CTF so should b build in in the mod then ?
O
old.[AF]haste
Guest
- Thread starter
- #10
Re: OSP
It depends. If they do it like CPMA and make it a new game type altogether, they'd have to add another game type for FT CTF. In VFT what you describe is pretty much all that happens - with the exception of a check which uses which base you're closest to to determine whether or not you freeze, a little bit that doesn't advance the team score when a whole team is frozen, among other things.
If it's set up like that (a server-side var, say, g_freeze), it's nearly trivial. Of course, with CPMA having it as a game type it'll probably end up like that in OSP.
Either method (server-side var or a new game type) has its pros and cons. I'm not sure myself which would be easier.
It depends. If they do it like CPMA and make it a new game type altogether, they'd have to add another game type for FT CTF. In VFT what you describe is pretty much all that happens - with the exception of a check which uses which base you're closest to to determine whether or not you freeze, a little bit that doesn't advance the team score when a whole team is frozen, among other things.
If it's set up like that (a server-side var, say, g_freeze), it's nearly trivial. Of course, with CPMA having it as a game type it'll probably end up like that in OSP.
Either method (server-side var or a new game type) has its pros and cons. I'm not sure myself which would be easier.
S
SpUnKyTh3MoNk3y
Guest
- Thread starter
- #11
1) vft ctf sux.
2) i'm not sure just changing it to "freeze all over" would be that much better
i reckon it needs fairly fundamental gameplay changes for it to ever be any good. maybe not large ones but still...
a couple of [possibly retarded but possibly not] ideas which just occured.
a) if the flag carrier gets frozen u could freeze the flag with him so it only gets released when he thaws. this adds a new strat for the team trying to get their flag back (having to move flag+carrier into a void or lava to return their flag, or having to camp flag+carrier ala wfa)
b) hit frozen teammate with rg once or twice = thaw. thawing just seems to slow things down too much in vft ctf
not thought these ideas through too hard so flaem away or just ignore them.
2) i'm not sure just changing it to "freeze all over" would be that much better
i reckon it needs fairly fundamental gameplay changes for it to ever be any good. maybe not large ones but still...
a couple of [possibly retarded but possibly not] ideas which just occured.
a) if the flag carrier gets frozen u could freeze the flag with him so it only gets released when he thaws. this adds a new strat for the team trying to get their flag back (having to move flag+carrier into a void or lava to return their flag, or having to camp flag+carrier ala wfa)
b) hit frozen teammate with rg once or twice = thaw. thawing just seems to slow things down too much in vft ctf
not thought these ideas through too hard so flaem away or just ignore them.
P
P()D-WeirDeX
Guest
- Thread starter
- #12
Vanilla FT CTF
The main thing what i don't like is that you only get to freeze people on ur own side and not theirs. That's just no good. You need to be able to go into that enemy base, finish the people in there and they need to stay frozen so they can't persuit you. It would force you to play the game smart. I think it's very important that u keep both the gametypes simular to what they are. Only the settings could be changed a bit it definately does not need to be a new gametype. I think the game would b a mix between a CTF / TDM kinda style. Like Doc said, it would be a bit like Capture Strike because you are forced to get some flags in extreme situations, but the thawing part could be a part of ur tactic as well. To be honest I think it needs to be tested, and mayB when it's fun and popular we could do a little Feeze CTF cup on a night..
The main thing what i don't like is that you only get to freeze people on ur own side and not theirs. That's just no good. You need to be able to go into that enemy base, finish the people in there and they need to stay frozen so they can't persuit you. It would force you to play the game smart. I think it's very important that u keep both the gametypes simular to what they are. Only the settings could be changed a bit it definately does not need to be a new gametype. I think the game would b a mix between a CTF / TDM kinda style. Like Doc said, it would be a bit like Capture Strike because you are forced to get some flags in extreme situations, but the thawing part could be a part of ur tactic as well. To be honest I think it needs to be tested, and mayB when it's fun and popular we could do a little Feeze CTF cup on a night..
S
SpUnKyTh3MoNk3y
Guest
- Thread starter
- #13
Re: Vanilla FT CTF
couldn't agree more. just not so sure what the solution is.
O
old.Quark
Guest
- Thread starter
- #14
I played some freeze ctf a long time ago. Back then you got frozen anywhere on the map when killed. The main flaw with it was that it was much easier for the last man to suicide with rocket/plasma and so get frozen and release the whole team than to defrost them 1 at a time. That worked because you didnt score a point for killing the whole team, only for a flag cap.
It wasnt a lot of fun as a game and soon died off on the server that was running it.
I suspect that finding a mix of rules that works and is fun is going to be a bit tricky.
It wasnt a lot of fun as a game and soon died off on the server that was running it.
I suspect that finding a mix of rules that works and is fun is going to be a bit tricky.
P
P()D-WeirDeX
Guest
- Thread starter
- #15
Ehm
Well first they could program it so that suicides in the last man's case is not possible since u then could stay frozen as a team or something. Just an idea
Well first they could program it so that suicides in the last man's case is not possible since u then could stay frozen as a team or something. Just an idea
O
old.Quark
Guest
- Thread starter
- #16
Re: Ehm
but then what about if the last man accidentaly suicides in a firefight? That would be unfair on his team if they were all left frozen. Like I say its a tricky 1.
but then what about if the last man accidentaly suicides in a firefight? That would be unfair on his team if they were all left frozen. Like I say its a tricky 1.
P
P()D-WeirDeX
Guest
- Thread starter
- #17
Is there
Something like an accidental suicide ?, never happened to me in CTF
Something like an accidental suicide ?, never happened to me in CTF
S
SpUnKyTh3MoNk3y
Guest
- Thread starter
- #18
another idea u might hate...
what about allowing the team camptain to "buy" a thaw which releases all his frozen players and credits the other team n points?
what about allowing the team camptain to "buy" a thaw which releases all his frozen players and credits the other team n points?
P
P()D-WeirDeX
Guest
- Thread starter
- #19
I think
if ur entire team gets frozen then the enemy will get a flag it's as simple as that. It means that u would receive a point for freezing an entire team. More combat into CTF.
if ur entire team gets frozen then the enemy will get a flag it's as simple as that. It means that u would receive a point for freezing an entire team. More combat into CTF.
S
SpUnKyTh3MoNk3y
Guest
- Thread starter
- #20
ignore me
i was having a blonde moment. and i'm not even going to explain the "logic" (such as it was at the time) behind that post
i was having a blonde moment. and i'm not even going to explain the "logic" (such as it was at the time) behind that post
D
Doc^
Guest
- Thread starter
- #21
Spunky Monkey you just keep having ideas
since there is no real way to make a ctf freeze game that works atm
would need lots of ideas.
since there is no real way to make a ctf freeze game that works atm
would need lots of ideas.
S
SpUnKyTh3MoNk3y
Guest
- Thread starter
- #22
indeed. it would be nice to have a fctf which "worked" but it would need radical changes. freeze + flags just sucks.
if i think of any other hair-brained ideas i'll wack 'em up here.
if i think of any other hair-brained ideas i'll wack 'em up here.
D
Doc^
Guest
- Thread starter
- #23
Whack them all Spunkey Monkey.
Becasue fctf is such a odd one to begin with no idea could hurt
It could work it could not.
until all options are vanished we will never know.
Personaly I dont know.. Some kind of captureStrike freeze is all I see. But then again all is options
would take some serious ppl hammering it out in testting and yelling at each other.
LOL
Becasue fctf is such a odd one to begin with no idea could hurt
It could work it could not.
until all options are vanished we will never know.
Personaly I dont know.. Some kind of captureStrike freeze is all I see. But then again all is options
would take some serious ppl hammering it out in testting and yelling at each other.
LOL
P
P()D-WeirDeX
Guest
- Thread starter
- #24
My views
Well since i'm in CTF for quite a while, actually my entire Q3 carreer, i think you are all talking from a Freeze perspective to much. In fact I don't think anything needs to be changed for a possible CTF Freeze, but with the entire OSP FT thing in development it might be nice that if there's interest for it to take it in right away. My views from the CTF side is that it doesn't need any changes, it just needs to be possible to activate the CTF 'mode' in Freeze. How would the gameplay be in my vision ?. Well first of all clans would have to create new tactics and a better team play. An attacker who just runs off on his own won't last long, and in the end will be put down by the enemy. So the attackers would have to stay together. Mayb an idea to attack all together. There might be massive fights over getting flags back since people might be frozen. Also thawing strategies would come in. Like you move out to free ur attackers so that they can resume their duties. These are just a couple of examples i'm not even talking about the regenerations and hastes that comes with CTF. Overall the quickness and capture rate will go down in CTF, bringing it to closer more tactical games which i would love to try as I like both Freeze and CTF. But if there isn't an interest for it then it's quickly over and both sides stay where they are. But why should Freeze be TDM style only ? Regarding to Doc's capture strike freeze idea, personally i like the idea behind it. And i quite see CTF FT as something that simular, but disabling armor and weapons would take some excitement and tactics out of the game. One must be able to work back and forth through a map gathering things, not clan arena style combat. Okay this is pretty much all I can say about it, and it would depend on the interest in it now. Again nothing needs to be changed in the settings mayb some minor things but in the end the CTF FT clans will decide how the game is played in the game itself.
Hooray i'm done typing
Well since i'm in CTF for quite a while, actually my entire Q3 carreer, i think you are all talking from a Freeze perspective to much. In fact I don't think anything needs to be changed for a possible CTF Freeze, but with the entire OSP FT thing in development it might be nice that if there's interest for it to take it in right away. My views from the CTF side is that it doesn't need any changes, it just needs to be possible to activate the CTF 'mode' in Freeze. How would the gameplay be in my vision ?. Well first of all clans would have to create new tactics and a better team play. An attacker who just runs off on his own won't last long, and in the end will be put down by the enemy. So the attackers would have to stay together. Mayb an idea to attack all together. There might be massive fights over getting flags back since people might be frozen. Also thawing strategies would come in. Like you move out to free ur attackers so that they can resume their duties. These are just a couple of examples i'm not even talking about the regenerations and hastes that comes with CTF. Overall the quickness and capture rate will go down in CTF, bringing it to closer more tactical games which i would love to try as I like both Freeze and CTF. But if there isn't an interest for it then it's quickly over and both sides stay where they are. But why should Freeze be TDM style only ? Regarding to Doc's capture strike freeze idea, personally i like the idea behind it. And i quite see CTF FT as something that simular, but disabling armor and weapons would take some excitement and tactics out of the game. One must be able to work back and forth through a map gathering things, not clan arena style combat. Okay this is pretty much all I can say about it, and it would depend on the interest in it now. Again nothing needs to be changed in the settings mayb some minor things but in the end the CTF FT clans will decide how the game is played in the game itself.
Hooray i'm done typing