free will/determinism

[Lamp]

They are both perceptive and subjective. You might as well start a discussion on who what created the universe. Both come down to personal belief. Just like interpretations on religion.

 

[tris-]

Might be 'cause i'm more interested i the origin and you're more interested in the current.

hit the nail on that one.

lamp i know that. so this discussion is equally as valid as one about a religious belief or the belief that darth vadar is real.

 

[Imgormiel]

Heh, someone has been studying the Behaviourist/Humanist argument in a Psychology A level/degree I see. Studied this for many years. I am on the Humanist side of it - although I do see the point of the Freudian Analysis of it. But sorry, I believe we gravitate rather than simply just react

 

[tris-]

personally im at the end of a consumer law degree. do one of you other guys do psychology?

 

[Shagrat]

can we not be in a situation/reality where its possible to have both free will and determinism.

surely determined events dont have to be static, and the wilful actions of people can change the direction of events?

 

[tris-]

i dint believe we have the choice to make wilful actions

 

[Imgormiel]

i dint believe we have the choice to make wilful actions

I do believe we have the choice to make nihilistic statements that are meaningless Friday night my brain is tired/pissed anecdotes that detail little more than sparse arguments that say i feel therefore i will

 

[tris-]

eh?

 

[liloe]

can we not be in a situation/reality where its possible to have both free will and determinism.

surely determined events dont have to be static, and the wilful actions of people can change the direction of events?

Nope, the moment you have the choice, it's free will, at least that's my opinion.

 

[tris-]

if anyone is confused about determinism, some parts of donnie darko represent the concept very well. in particular imo the bit where hes got tunnels coming from his chest.

 

[swords]

From my pov studying life in it's most basic forms (cells nublings!) I will just chip in that, while individual parts can be defined in terms of their properties and response very accuratley so as to predict them with the same accuracy, when you combine components to form a system you gain what's known as emergent properties.
These can also be predicted potentially but there is the fundamental of how accurate you can predict, there is always going to be some error or 'wiggle room' as I like to call it. So systems can operate in a region of hypothetical space where a location corresponds to a particular state of said system. The system can shift through this space and is limited only by the system make-up, which is determined by the individual components and their arrangement.

Simply put, a car can go fast or slow, it depends on what the controlling factors are doing. But what controls the controlling factors?

chicken and egg anyone? Schroedingers free will, we have it and don't have it at the same time.