Free market vs. Reasonable pricing

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Pixie.Pebr

Guest
I have a feeling I am not the only crafter who sees the current situation as something bad, so lets have a look at what we have and why we have it.
But most importantly, how we can fix it and fix it in a way that keep both buyers and sellers reasonably happy.


There was a time I could count the LGM Weaponsmiths on my two hands and knew most of them by name as well.

With little competition, it was a sellers market.
The crafters could basically set the price they wanted, as the demand was at times higher than the supply.
Some did use this opportunity to make a rather hefty profit for themselves and in a way I can not blame them.
Reaching LGM in any trade is a very costly business and naturally you wish to break even as soon as possible so that you can begin to make some real profit, not just earning back your investment.
On the other hand, overpricing scares away customers and it also impedes the flow of trade, as people simply can not afford to buy what they wish to when they wish to.

As more people reached the status of LGM the competition hardened.
The supply leveled with the demand and prices were normalised.
With a greater supply, the buyers have the luxury to choose the deal which is best for them and that is, naturally, the cheapest one.

So it began to happen, the supply became greater than the demand, crafters was churning out 99% qua weapons noone had ordered, as byproducts from MP orders, or from skilling up.

How to get rid of excess stock?
Sell at a loss, ofcourse. But, to minimise the loss, one choose ofcourse to sell to another player instead of the NPC merchants who give you ridiculous amounts compared to the actual worth.
This in turn had the effect that the prices seen as "normal" by the buyer, in fact was a price that made the seller lose coin on the trade.

Now, what businessman will happily continue to sell at a loss, with 10-30 plats investment that need be earned back?
Noone.
A lot of crafters have simply retired and now only craft for friends and guildies, at cost, as a favour.
Rather than have continuous loss, you just accept you spent 25 plat you wont see again and move on.

Now, I would love too be able to confidently say there is a cycle and with the number of retiring crafters, the supply will soon be equal to the demand and prices will normalise again.
But I can't.
For the very simple reason that new people keep skilling up, producing new LGMs to replace the ones no longer in business.
And these new LGMs will face an already broken market and will be forced to either join the selling-at-a-loss carousel, or retire early.
So, how to remedy this unbalance?

Well, one option is to form a cartel, meet and decide on what prices we are going to sell at.
This is in the real world out there illegal and though it would not be so in the game, I still see it as something unethical.
Reason being it is very easy to set prices higher than the actual worth and start ripping off the customers.

Another option is to not fill up your CMs with cheap 99% left-overs. Reduce the supply and thus raise the demand and the prices. Think OPEC and oil.
While this may mean the time to earn back the investment may be longer, as you will either not sell the excess stock or sell it to the NPC merchants for greater loss, it will also mean a more healthy and stable economic climate for the crafters will emerge.

As it is now, someone charging a fair price for a 99%er (10-20% profit, in my view) won't have it sold, since the guy next door have the same for sale at 10% loss.

At the end of the day everyone need the weapons, shields, armour and whatnot to be able to play the game and ofcourse they are happy to get it cheap.
But us crafters need our investment back in order to make it worthwhile to produce.

Rant over. Let the flames begin.
 
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ironhand

Guest
Originally posted by Pixie.Pebr
Well, one option is to form a cartel, meet and decide on what prices we are going to sell at.
This is in the real world out there illegal and though it would not be so in the game, I still see it as something unethical.
Reason being it is very easy to set prices higher than the actual worth and start ripping off the customers.

Like you say it is unethical, but also impossible in-game. IRL this kind of cartel would be achieved by either buying out all the competiter's or get them to agree with you by 1 means or another. Lets face IRL things like threaten/kill/blackmail and all sorts of dodgy dealings happen to bend people to there will. This is DAoC this wont ever be something which could come about. There would always be some 1 who would go against the grain and not much u could do about it.


Originally posted by Pixie.Pebr
A lot of crafters have simply retired and now only craft for friends and guildies, at cost, as a favour.
Rather than have continuous loss, you just accept you spent 25 plat you wont see again and move on.

I know countless players doing this, and i have done this myself for various trades and skilling up my 3rd lgm crafter now as we speak. Over the past ive had various experiences with crafters ranging from good all the way to bent as a £9 note. Tbh i dont care about crafting for money becuase money is irelivant anyhow when you have house, crafters sc sets etc etc ( Wait you could mindlessly fritter xx worth of P's on auctions over "uber items" when crafted will do), and besides hinging is a much easier way to get it imo without having to piss about with customers or xx failed attempts to makes 99%'s etc

And between myself and a friend we have everything to be 100% self seficient when our lvling crafters get lgm soon i hope ;)

The rot will only get worse when the CM search becomes available next patch, then again i will probley benifit from the competiviness anyhow :)
 
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ironhand

Guest
Just craft for yourself, then you cant get annoyied at bad prices or not being able to get xxxxx item when u need etc.
Oh and farm more to pay for these things, as what else is there to do nowdays?

RvR? LoL
 
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old.linnet

Guest
Originally posted by Pixie.Pebr


Well, one option is to form a cartel, meet and decide on what prices we are going to sell at.


<...>

Another option is to not fill up your CMs with cheap 99% left-overs. Reduce the supply and thus raise the demand and the prices. Think OPEC and oil.


OPEC _is_ a cartel though, and that's the problem. To stop people putting cheap 99%s on their merchants you would also need to get everyone into a cartel. Why? Because the 99s that you get while doing a MP order do NOT cost the crafter the same as if they crafted the 99 to order.

If I can sell off my excess 99s at the cost of one remake and still make a profit on them because I got them while I was being paid for a MP, then it's still a profit which is better over time if I can turn them over quickly than if they sit in my vault and rot. (I don't have a CM btw, so this is academic.) That's why people sell off cheap 99s.

It's going to get a LOT worse once the market search function is in, also. I don't expect MPs will get a lot cheaper though.

My advice would be: craft if you like crafting. If you want to make money, kill rich monsters instead.
 
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old.windforce

Guest
crafters get rich trinketing, not selling weapons and stuff

MP orders on retry base can make some cash too.

Best cash is trinketing and spellcrafting though.

Spellcrafting due to cheap materials and long time needed to do it



Kartel is against the law in Holland. my compagny got fined 16mio € for doing it
 
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wildsorcerer

Guest
ive just had a full suit MP order and prollyt had the worst run of luck ive ever seen i set a fixed price and now have 10X 99% of each type of armour ... i could sell them to merchant or i could stick em on me cm ad get "" SOME "" of the cash back sellin them at cost to make .....

i have had them on my cm for a few days now and i think ive sold 1 pair of plate gloves ... there is a HUge surplus of 99% item on the market at moment and it wont b goin down anytime soon ..


myself im leavin the items on my cm and if not sold in 2 months ill sell them to merchant ..

i am givin up craftin for good <unless its a guildie>

if i want cash ill go DF and get seals .. end of
 
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sans_pite

Guest
hohum, I kinda think like Im doing this to further Albion against the mids/hibs really ;)

I make a tiny profit here and there, some hinges and stuff, for me personally, its just another way of chatting when I cba to get a group for whatever.

that said, Im beeing pretty adamant about only doing stuff I want to do and at the time I choose to do it :)
 
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krait

Guest
As much as I would lke to see a marketplace where there is a set price for all 99% and MP items,I can't see it happening :(
There will always be somebody who wants to undercut the market to get a "fast buck" and where one goes,others will inevitably follow.
As seems to be the case with other crafters ,I only craft for myself,friends and guildies (when i can be bothered :p ) ,but if a "cartel" was started, I'd join with the hope that everyone else would.
It would be nice to finally make some profit from crafting ,instead of power-levelling alts to farm cash in order to make gear and outfit the same alts. :/
 

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