[Football] Mourinho For England?

[soze]

English kids can play Arsenal football our School boy side has lots of English players and they all play the same first touch passing football we play in the first team. Jay Simpson who is a big talent out on loan this season has said its hard to play for a different club now as he is used to playing Arsenal football.

So really if Arsenal Man U can get our kids playing good attacking football why can't all the other clubs and help improve the standard of English players. If all the youngsters know is boring 4-5-1 thats all they will be able to play.

 

[Vladamir]

Rooney has that brain, however so do a number of other players at man united. One of the reasons he hasn't really shined for england yet IMO.

 

[tierk]

I think that to be a succesful team in the Premiership with English players in your side you need to play solid defensive football. Apart from Man U of course. ....

Apart from Chelsea, ManU and Arsenal who else has one the priemership? What style of football do they play? Solid defensive play is expected from any team to win a trophy, that is to be expected from any successful team but this doesnt mean that you have to be like Arsenal were under George Graham (1-0 merchants) who used to just bore the other team to death and wait for Ian Wright to score.

Chelsea under Jose was a mirror of this technic just substitute Graham for Mourinho and Drogba for Ian Wright. Borign Boring plain and simple.

....The fact is English players are not as technically gifted as some overseas nations. Therefore to succeed we adapt to a style of play that does not highlight our technical weakness........

As rightly pointed by someone else in this thread English players will never be like Brazilians, however, neither will German players be like Italians or vice versa. Each country has a certain way of playing football and the English game has come a long way from the days of playing long balls down the lines and a fast cross in for your center forward to head it in.

If that is what you think makes English football successful you are wrong. The teams that have consistently done well over the last ten years have all played pretty football, with the exception of Chelsea. English football is not naturally defensive with a couple of quick long balls but rather a fast paced passing game. Thats why so many people from Europe fail to do well over here (Veron just a recent example of class player struggling with it, Sheva another).

.....Of course everyone aspires to play like the Arsenal but in reality we don't deal with our youngsters in the right way to create a crop of players capable of it.

Personally i dont see a problem with youth development in England. maybe needs a bit of refining but a system that has given us players like Owen, Rooney, Ferdinand, Beckham, Gerrard - i could go on and on. We have plenty of talent coming through, its the managers that are failing to utilise the players correctly.

Take the example of Le Tisseier (can never spell this guys name), who in my mind was one of the best players this country has ever produced and yet was considered a luxury player for England. Ian Wright another case in point. Or recently McDonut choosing to leave Beckham on the bench and starting with both Lampard and Gerrard when it is perfectly clear to the whole country it is never going to work, this way. A fit Beckham any day over SWP.

Crisis in our youth development? I dont think so more like a crisi in the FA and its shit selection of managers.

 

[Garok]

Mourinho would be good but just feel Capello would be better.

 

[leviathane]

Duno where all this English players will never be as talented as Brazilians. Tbh it's all down to the grass root games. Instead of getting kids into teams at early ages and then basically playing to win, they should be teaching young kids the basics and skills, then when they're old enough they can go into a team and start playing some proper match's. I think as long as the grass roots system remains the same then there'll be no huge improvement in the national side in years to come.

 

[kiliarien]

The england squad needs someone arrogant (subsequently confident) enough to tell big names where to stick it if they dont perform.
I think he would do great as he would mould the team into what he wants them to be, and more importantly he would get results.
The critsism by purists is that he doesnt play exhibition games, he plays them to win even if it means a boring game

Other than that i cant see how you can discount him as there is no doubt he is a great manager who can get big players to play together

I agree that he doesn't need to play exhibition games. I would even agree that he might have the balls to tell players where to stick it in the short term - but not the long term. He started losing some of the Chelsea faithful even when his squad wasn't doing that badly. He has the capacity sometimes to say some superbly eloquent things - and then other times he says something like this when he was at Chelsea:

"We are on top at the moment but not because of the club's financial power. We are in contention for a lot of trophies because of my hard work." (Jose Mourinho)

Way to spread the credit

How much money did he spend at porto then?

If you read my post, I did say he bought trophies at Chelsea. That said, he inherited a squad which included Vito Baia, Alenichev, Deco, Jorge Costa and Postiga and bought 5 or 6 players in quick succession, including Nuno Valente & Maniche. His eye for talent is good - but with an England squad of course he can't buy it in. As I said originallly, part of what is needed is youth development - I don't know much about his ability at that, though he is adept and building a good support team around him.

I'm more worried he'd demand quite a long term contract and we'd have to buy him out of it. I still stand by this before the Croatia game:

https://forums.freddyshouse.com/off-topic-21/224229-comon-you-england-3.html#post3274007

English kids can play Arsenal football our School boy side has lots of English players and they all play the same first touch passing football we play in the first team. Jay Simpson who is a big talent out on loan this season has said its hard to play for a different club now as he is used to playing Arsenal football.

So really if Arsenal Man U can get our kids playing good attacking football why can't all the other clubs and help improve the standard of English players. If all the youngsters know is boring 4-5-1 thats all they will be able to play.

Maybe that's down to that rift between the top clubs and the rest of the premiership in money etc. Maybe if more went to the other clubs skill progression would trickle down? I don't know if that's true, just meanderings.

 

[tierk]

Duno where all this English players will never be as talented as Brazilians. Tbh it's all down to the grass root games........

There are many reasons we will never be like the Brazilians. Firstly Brazil is a country with a population of about 200 million people for starters compared with a total UK populatio of 60 odd million. They have over 25% of there population under the age of 15 compared to a Uk average of about 18% and well over 30% of the total population live under the poverty line compared to a Uk average of 17%.

These figures in themselves dont mean much except when you begin to understand that for a lot of the Brazilian players football is a way out of poverty, unlike in the UK where in reality, relatively speaking we dont have any real poverty (ie not many people sleep at night hungry /homeless and /or have no prospects of getting a good start in life).

Another big factor in why we dont produce players like Brazil seems to off a production line is the fact that in Britian today football is seen as entertainment and most kids will play footie till they hit about 16 then they discover things like girls, drugs parties and footie goes down the pan. I personal know of at least twenty people that i grew up with in London that where playing footie at proffesional clubs as youth players and guess what? Not one of them made it to seventeen without starting to smoke weed or snort coke or discovered girls.

Another factor in the decline of the game in England has been the slow sell off of all schools playing fields by over the last twenty years. I was lucky having spent my education in a private school on the south coast that had every sports facility that was needed (cricket, football, rugby, squash, tennis, swimming, athelitics etc). We are coached on a daily basis by proffesionals, for example our cricket coach was a former Sussex cricket player, our head football coach was a former QPR player, they all came with the relevant coaching certificates.

You cannot expect to churn out thousands of talented players every week if you are not giving them facilities to play on on a regular basis. When i moved to London and was asking friends that went to state schools how often they did sport i was shocked to find out that they were lucky to get a hour a week to play and then it wasnt like they had school piyches but had to tavel all over the place. In the private school that i attended we had to play sport 6 days a week for at least two hours a day, it was not optional.

......Instead of getting kids into teams at early ages and then basically playing to win, they should be teaching young kids the basics and skills, then when they're old enough they can go into a team and start playing some proper match's. I think as long as the grass roots system remains the same then there'll be no huge improvement in the national side in years to come.

There is nothing wrong with kids getting into teams and playing competitive matches from a early age, it is the best way to test what they have learnt on a regular basis. There is not a problem with teaching kids the skills at a early age in England, the problems arise when they are no longer ten years olds that listen to mummy and daddy but when they hit 15-16-17 when they think they know better. To many temptations outside of football to distract them from the game and the time, effort and the fact that they cant do what all the other kids are doing (ie having fun - smoking, drinking and partying) if they want to be pros.

I have two nephews (twins) who as kids i thought would go far in football if they stuck at it. I arranged trials for them at QPR (through my old head master) and they were accepted as youth players. They had a great future ahead of them, if they could manage to keep there heads down but naturally life caught up with them and football became secondary to them.

Regardless of the current media storm about England lacking talented youth coming through, i dont think it is as bad as they are trying to make out it is. We have good players coming through but you cannot ecpect every team to have ten Roberto Carlos's coming through their ranks and fifteen Marco Van Basten's on there books. The media has, as it always does, to sell papers, hyped this up so much that it looks like England is dead and buried in terms of inc youth players.

The problem with the national side doesnt lie with the players, we have the players to win major competitions but with management of the national side. It has been piss poor for a long time. as Bira stated so clearly.....

.....England need characters and mental cases - bring back Bobby Robson, he'll find the pitch but he won't know what continent he's on :england:

The constantly going for third or fourth choice options as manager is just senseless. Get someone well qualified to do the job (Venables, O'Neal, Curbishley, Allardyce) make them a offer they cant refuse (long contracts and fat pay checks - performance related ofc) and give them a free hand to do the job (kick clubs arses into line as and when needed) with full backing.

Shit i do go on at times.

 

[Rubric]

Get someone well qualified to do the job (Venables, O'Neal, Curbishley, Allardyce)

Sorry but how are these people qualified? Venables is the only one vaguely qualified but i would want to know how much involvement he had with the recent failure before saying he was a contender.

 

[Raven]

O'Neal did well last year with a crap Aston Villa, not doing to bad this season either (6th). The mark of a good international manager (imo) is to make the best of what you have.

I am don't think he is the right man for the job now though, instead of McLaren he would have made a good manager imo. We need someone to knock people off their perches, to many over inflated egos in the England squad.

 

[tierk]

Sorry but how are these people qualified? Venables is the only one vaguely qualified but i would want to know how much involvement he had with the recent failure before saying he was a contender.

Well for starters look at Curbishley's record and Charlton. Two times promotion to bring them into the priemer league and kept them there during his long time at the club. This with a shoe string budget and he has a eye for players as well. What happened after he left?

Alan Curbishley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Martin O'neal speaks for himself and doesnt need me to do advertising for him in anyway and if you cannot see why he should be in with a shout for the job then i am wasting my time talking to you. All i can say is Leicester, Celtic and now Aston Villa.

Martin O'Neill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sam Allardyce has proven at Bolton that he is capabale of getting a lot out of a little. Using caste offs from other teams and old boys that have been written off as past their sell by dates he transformed a Bolton team that was like a yoyo (in and out of the Priemer league more times then i care to remember) into a team that iirc were in europe.


Venables is more then vaguely qualified for the job. He is the best of the lot for me and should be first choice for the job but naturally the FA being the spineless people that they are are scared to make him a offer he cant refuse. I know that he wasnt to close to the decison making for England iin recent games as he had a very public falling out with McDonut not too long ago and you will note he was in the stands for the entire game (at least i think so anyway).

.......We need someone to knock people off their perches, to many over inflated egos in the England squad.

I just dont get this talk of over inflated ego's i keep hearing from people over and over again. When people pull the shirt on for their country i dont think ego has anything to do with it. I just wonder who these players with ego issues are, i am curious to know where all this rubbish comes from.

Its a question of getting the players prepared properly, with sound tactics, proper training methods that will compliment the tactics you are going to employ and playing to your players strenghts. For example the failure of coaches to accept that 4-4-2 is the ideal formation for England, end of. Its the formation that every single person in England that has ever kicked a ball knows and understands, from park footie to the top.

 

[Rubric]

Well for starters look at Curbishley's record and Charlton. Two times promotion to bring them into the priemer league and kept them there during his long time at the club. This with a shoe string budget and he has a eye for players as well. What happened after he left?

Alan Curbishley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Martin O'neal speaks for himself and doesnt need me to do advertising for him in anyway and if you cannot see why he should be in with a shout for the job then i am wasting my time talking to you. All i can say is Leicester, Celtic and now Aston Villa.

Martin O'Neill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sam Allardyce has proven at Bolton that he is capabale of getting a lot out of a little. Using caste offs from other teams and old boys that have been written off as past their sell by dates he transformed a Bolton team that was like a yoyo (in and out of the Priemer league more times then i care to remember) into a team that iirc were in europe.


Venables is more then vaguely qualified for the job. He is the best of the lot for me and should be first choice for the job but naturally the FA being the spineless people that they are are scared to make him a offer he cant refuse. I know that he wasnt to close to the decison making for England iin recent games as he had a very public falling out with McDonut not too long ago and you will note he was in the stands for the entire game (at least i think so anyway).

Curbishley, what has he acheived since Charlton.

Allardyce has proved he can't get alot with alot.

O'Neil is a good manager no doubt but he is not qualified for international management.

Venables, is i think a possibility but the FA will not go for it.

If you want qualified, look for an Internationally qualified manager.

Or you go for the best of the rest which is Mourinho.

 

[Faeldawn]

John Terry, Frank Lampard, Ashley Cole, Joe Cole.

That looks like a strong part of the England set up who all saw success playing in this way under Mourinho.

Terry is a half-decent player, Lampard and Ashley Cole are average at best, Joe Cole is resonable. None are world class.

 

[Faeldawn]

O'Neal did well last year with a crap Aston Villa, not doing to bad this season either (6th). The mark of a good international manager (imo) is to make the best of what you have.

I am don't think he is the right man for the job now though, instead of McLaren he would have made a good manager imo. We need someone to knock people off their perches, to many over inflated egos in the England squad.

Agree, although i'd go you one better and say England need a manager who will ignore the requirement to only pick players from the top few teams regardless of their form or fitness.

Plenty of good up and coming England players, Lita, Agbonlahor (sp?) etc, but as they don't play for the top clubs, they never get a sniff. Imo they need to look in the Championship as well for potential international players and get away from some of the 20 or-so no-hopers they pick religiously.

 

[Rubric]

Terry is a half-decent player, Lampard and Ashley Cole are average at best, Joe Cole is resonable. None are world class.

Lampard absolutely should not be in the England side. However he will be.

Who would you play at centre back ahead of Terry? Who would you play at left back ahead of Cole? And who would you pick on the left ahead of Joe Cole?

 

[Aile]

I cry every night for that stupid desicion that Ryan Giggs made to play for Wales, he would of given us at least 3 world cups...

But I do have to say England all over the park does have world class players when they decide to show up, its just a shame that there hasn't been a manager to instil the passion and drive into the players, and a manager to shield them from the intrusiveness of the press that also has a really negative effect on the way this countys football.

 

[tierk]

.....Curbishley, what has he acheived since Charlton.........

Well he hasnt been in managment for a year and join West Ham last year and saved them from certain relegation for starters and wait and see what he does this season - his first full season at West Ham. Also remember he spent fourteen years at Charlton and the season he left they went DOWN.

.......Allardyce has proved he can't get alot with alot..........

Do you have any idea how many seasons Manu won nothing under SAF? He became manager in 1986 and didnt win jack shit for a good 6 years.

.......O'Neil is a good manager no doubt but he is not qualified for international management...........

What exactly have Jose or Cappelo for that matter done that makes them qualified for international managment? Considering neither if them has ever managed a international squad (not 100% sure of this but pretty sure).

Once again i make the clear choice and i believe rightly so that a manager of a international squad must be from the same country as the team he is managing. If you are managing Mongolia or the Maldives its fine to bring in a foriegner but it is a travesty to bring a foriegner to manage England and i would only ever agree to it if i saw other top teams doing it.

.......Venables, is i think a possibility but the FA will not go for it.....

The best man manager in England by a mile and hands down winner for me for the job but as you rightly point out the spineless c..ts at the FA will ofc go for the lowest denominator.

.......If you want qualified, look for an Internationally qualified manager.......Or you go for the best of the rest which is Mourinho.

I just dont agree with you that we need a foriegner to do the job, sorry.