Football gifts an "insult to islam"

[Dukat]

US football gift 'insults Islam' in Afghanistan - Telegraph

We just cant fucking win can we?

No matter whats done over there the fucking arabs just dont seem to understand do they?

We give them footballs as gifts for children and they complain because it has a national flag on it?! WHAT THE FUCK?

Whats next? they going to complain because the aid packets the red cross give them are an insult because they arent in arab-friendly colours?

I can half understand national flags being a source of pride and perhaps in thier culture the idea of kicking it wouldnt be great, but for gods sake, it had most national flags on them, not just arab ones.

Its like they're trying to take offence from anything at all just for an excuse.

Yea, ok, so giving children a few footballs isnt going to make up for the instability in the region, but that isnt what they're saying, they're complaining because the Saudi Arabia flag appeared on a football. Its not a major issue, but this just exemplifies the larger problems being encountered there imo - they just dont seem to think in the same way at all.

I mean they're not even FROM Saudi Arabia ffs.

Its not a big thing really, but christ, this kind of arab mentality really does piss me off.

 

[Thorwyn]

Its not a big thing really, but christ, this kind of arab mentality really does piss me off.

Being an atheist, I feel insulted now.

 

[tris-]

everythings an insult to islam these days so lets just do it the straight forward way -

fuck you islam!

 

[noblok]

100 people, yeah, that's worth getting wound up about.

Edit: Also, they weren't annoyed because the balls had a flag on them, but because they had a Koran verse on them.

 

[Dukat]

100 people, yeah, that's worth getting wound up about.

Its not a major issue, but this just exemplifies the larger problems being encountered there imo - they just dont seem to think in the same way at all.

...

Its not a big thing really, but christ, this kind of arab mentality really does piss me off.

Like I said, I'm not bouncing off the walls or anything, as I said, its the mentality that does me in.

It reminds me of that video thats done the rounds on the 'net about the spoilt rich girl who gets a sportscar for her birthday, only to complain because its not the right colour.

I guess similar arguments that were raised on that issue could be raised here - perhaps we should've known better, paid more attention to detail, but ffs, its the saudi national flag, its not like we've put the danish comics of mohammed on them - its not really that obvious that this could cause offence like it has.

 

[Dukat]

Edit: Also, they weren't annoyed because the balls had a flag on them, but because they had a Koran verse on them.

The verse appears on the flag, its like saying "its not the union jack, its just the red bit in the middle we dont like".

Like I said, I can almost, almost understand what they're saying, but its the attitude, the mentality of the thing. The football doesnt just show that flag, nor does it really show the text in question very clearly(see picture below). Its a ball that shows flags, its hardly 'blasphemy'. Its a gift to children - how can it be interpretted as an insult? Even then, if its mildly insulting why not take it up with the local mullah's and elders and let people know, this sort of "protest at the drop of a hat" only makes matters worse.

If they're so sensitive about the text then why does it appear on a national flag that is bound to see use worldwide? yes, because they're proud of it or whatever, but if thats true then surely the chances are that they would've taken offence if it hadn't of appeared on the ball?

 

[old.Tohtori]

To be honest, christians would probably get a rise out of picture of jesus being on footballs.

All know that the koran is holy, and that it's even more important to them as the bible is to the western peeps, but still some had the "great" idea of putting some holy words on footballs?

If you want to give a gift, just give a f*cking football.

The same "sentimental" things americans think is "cool", is not so in other cultures.

 

[Mojo]

Its the saudi national flag, its not like we've put the danish comics of mohammed on them - its not really that obvious that this could cause offence like it has.

It wasn't the flag that upset them but a verse from the Qur'an as has been stated here already.

But I do feel your frustration with this kinda thing.

 

[noblok]

I guess similar arguments that were raised on that issue could be raised here - perhaps we should've known better, paid more attention to detail, but ffs, its the saudi national flag, its not like we've put the danish comics of mohammed on them - its not really that obvious that this could cause offence like it has.

It was not obvious from a Western view, but it is obvious to a muslim. Guess what, Afghanistan is mostly a muslim country. That's the whole problem: this incident shows yet again that the US has no consideration for the Afghan people. They just want to impose their way of life. You wouldn't drop food packages with only pork meat in them in a muslim country and not expect them to complain either, would you? If Israel were a poor country in need of uniforms, you wouldn't send them old nazi unifroms either. Even if it's a gift, it can still be inconsiderate.

 

[Dukat]

To be honest, christians would probably get a rise out of picture of jesus being on footballs.

All know that the koran is holy, and that it's even more important to them as the bible is to the western peeps, but still some had the "great" idea of putting some holy words on footballs?

If you want to give a gift, just give a f*cking football.

The same "sentimental" things americans think is "cool", is not so in other cultures.

but this is just it, the words are on the flag of a country. Had the flag been left out surely that would've been "discimination" or whatever the local PC brigade is calling it nowadays?

Had it of just been the words, I can almost understand, I still think that as its a gift to children the 'insult' side of things should have been overlooked, or atleast talked about in a civilised manner.

Its not that obvious that the saudi flag is such sacred terroritory for the people of afghanistan is it? Had the text been emblazoned over the ball in an obvious manner then sure, again, whatever. but its one of how many flags on the ball? its not even clear that its arab text.

and again, it was meant as a gift, why cant they see that the americans were trying to do something kind?

 

[Raven]

Here is an insult to Islam, Allah is a cnut who takes great pleasure in scout camps.



(said strictly tongue in cheek in case i have upset you ofc, wouldn't want to get stoned to death or something)

 

[Mojo]

The same "sentimental" things americans think is "cool", is not so in other cultures.

That work's both ways though and everyone preaches about lack of understanding but no side seem to give any leeway because of it.

The Americans could have put a bit more though into it but on the other hand the Clerics could just as easily told their people "Hey guys I know its sucks but the American's don't really understand what this means to us, I tell you what, we will write a letter thanking them for their gifts and explain that maybe next time they could exclude the Qur'an verses. There was no real harm done because our well trained Muslim kids would not kick a ball with a Qur'an verse on it anyhow.

 

[Thorwyn]

It was not obvious from a Western view, but it is obvious to a muslim.

Sorry but.. no!
As you said yourself, it was just 100 people, so the "insult" wasn´t that big or obvious to the rest. It was obvious to those people, who were SEARCHING to find something to complain about because they (obviously) couldn´t stand the fact that the oh so evil western countries might do something peaceful and friendly for once. The poor children might lose their concept of enemies... the horror!

 

[Dukat]

It was not obvious from a Western view, but it is obvious to a muslim. Guess what, Afghanistan is mostly a muslim country. That's the whole problem: this incident shows yet again that the US has no consideration for the Afghan people. They just want to impose their way of life. You wouldn't drop food packages with only pork meat in them in a muslim country and not expect them to complain either, would you? If Israel were a poor country in need of uniforms, you wouldn't send them old nazi unifroms either. Even if it's a gift, it can still be inconsiderate.

You think that dropping gifts in the form of the football shown in the image above constitutes an insult of the same level as dropping pork, or giving nazi uniforms to the isreali's?

It looks like a ball that could be purchased at any cheap shop in one of a hundred countries.

I just dont see how a flag of a country, set amongst the flags of several other countries to show equality etc, put on a GIFT to kids, can be seen as an insult.

I just cant see it.

Had it of been just the saudi flag, or just text from the koran, then yea, I can see what you're saying, but its the national flag of one country set amongst others on a football that the countries in question play (!111111)

It just makes my brain hurt

 

[Dukat]

That work's both ways though and everyone preaches about lack of understanding but no side seem to give any leeway because of it.

The Americans could have put a bit more though into it but on the other hand the Clerics could just as easily told their people "Hey guys I know its sucks but the American's don't really understand what this means to us, I tell you what, we will write a letter thanking them for their gifts and explain that maybe next time they could exclude the Qur'an verses. There was no real harm done because our well trained Muslim kids would not kick a ball with a Qur'an verse on it anyhow.

Yea, this is kinda what I'm trying to say. Its the mentality of these people that does me in.

 

[Mojo]

It was not obvious from a Western view, but it is obvious to a muslim. Guess what, Afghanistan is mostly a Muslim country.

My understanding is that The Afghans were pretty much like most western countries prior to the Taliban and their fundamentalist ideology took over.

So when you say Afghanistan is a Mostly Muslim country it was a pretty liberal Muslim country until fairly recently and they might not have been bothered that much tbh.

fundamentalists cause these issues not Muslims as a whole, but he who shouts loudest etc. which is why a poxy 100 Muslims whining over a free football gets to be news these days.

 

[Glacier]

Coorporate propaganda.

And this goes to show what religion does to people.

They need to think they have more than this to live for, look to the sky, and let myths of gods control their lives, nothing more than sheep needing a shepheard, but look how extreme it is. Compared to Christianity.

And to be fair, if some sold me weapons (yes, US has sold afghanistan weapons), came in and buttfucked me, and dropped some balls with their flag on to the children, I would react too.

(Not dissing any religion, do what you will with your life, but don't push the shit down my throat.)

 

[noblok]

Sorry but.. no!
As you said yourself, it was just 100 people, so the "insult" wasn´t that big or obvious to the rest. It was obvious to those people, who were SEARCHING to find something to complain about because they (obviously) couldn´t stand the fact that the oh so evil western countries might do something peaceful and friendly for once. The poor children might lose their concept of enemies... the horror!

Yeah, I should've put "the above paragraph would only hold true if there were a significant number of complaints" in there. As it stands I agree with you. It's also why I think complaining about 'the arab mentality' is incorrect: it's just a couple of people, not the whole arab world.

 

[Dukat]

I think complaining about 'the arab mentality' is incorrect: it's just a couple of people, not the whole arab world.

Yea, sorry about that, its a phrase I use that perhaps isnt politically correct. I understand if that would cause an insult, but the reason I use the phrase is because of the wider attitudes I personally see and have seen recently, and I can understand if you dont agree with that.

It is perhaps not the whole arab world, but it [arguably] seems lately to be the most vocal part of it.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I'll say it again...

If they sent the US, footballs with the face of jesus on them, it's the same thing. so it's obvious why it might "anger" a few.

To us, it may seem like "just a flag", but to them, it's more, it's holy and those who give gifts are ALWAYS the ones who need to be understanding, not the receiver. Like they have to be when they give others gifts. that's how gift giving works really.

As a receiver, you can only take it and if you get a packet of sh*t dropped on your porch, you'd probably go "What the..."

Maybe the US peeps could've asked someone who knows about arab culture that "Hey, would this offend them?"

 

[Case]

Afghan`s are not arabs

 

[fettoken]

Islam religion itself is a hoax, its just some dimwit came up with for his own personal gains. If it was in my country, they would have been stoned to death for their insolence..... in America!

 

[Dukat]

I'll say it again...

If they sent the US, footballs with the face of jesus on them, it's the same thing. so it's obvious why it might "anger" a few.

To us, it may seem like "just a flag", but to them, it's more, it's holy and those who give gifts are ALWAYS the ones who need to be understanding, not the receiver. Like they have to be when they give others gifts. that's how gift giving works really.

As a receiver, you can only take it and if you get a packet of sh*t dropped on your porch, you'd probably go "What the..."

Maybe the US peeps could've asked someone who knows about arab culture that "Hey, would this offend them?"

Sorry toh but I completely disagree.

Its not the same thing at all. The saudi flag is not a religious icon. It might have some sort of religious text on there somewhere, but the flag itself is not 'worshipped' as such.

Add to that the fact that there were several other flags on the ball, that the writing in question isnt clear, and the fact that it was an honest mistake and it just becomes increasingly difficult to see how the US are being the inconsiderate ones.

Jesus is to christians as mohammed is to muslims. the saudi flag is to "afghans" as st george's cross is to christians. Probably even this is putting it too strongly as its not even the "afghans" own flag we're talking about here.

All of this is just bollocks anyway, we're missing the point completely - it was a present to children and the "insult to islam" is obscure at best.

And whats all this crap about who has to be understanding about gifts? Again, sorry toh, but you've really lost the plot here, since when is the reciever of a gift not obligated to be understanding? yes there is obligation on both sides but just because a gift is given it doesnt mean that the receiver is 'allowed' to be a twat in return.

 

[kirennia]

Coorporate propaganda.

And this goes to show what religion does to people.

They need to think they have more than this to live for, look to the sky, and let myths of gods control their lives, nothing more than sheep needing a shepheard, but look how extreme it is. Compared to Christianity.

Less extreme then forcing african countries to not teach about sex education and potential dangers involved, refusing to allow contraceptives to be sent in aid, thus killing hundreds, if not thousands of people daily That's the extremist christian way of working, imposing their beliefs with a metaphorical gun put to their heads if they don't abide by it (in the form of restricting aid). Okay so they don't directly pull the trigger, doesn't make it anymore right though. The alternative is america stops their aid and they die anyway.

Every religion has its extremists, they by far do not make up the majority, I just think it's sad when anyone forces their beliefs on anyone, but especially when it results in death.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yeah, dunno where the arab came from, probably from some other post here..dunno. My bad.

Jesus is to christians as mohammed is to muslims. the saudi flag is to "afghans" as st george's cross is to christians. Probably even this is putting it too strongly as its not even the "afghans" own flag we're talking about here.

But the thing is, it's not the same.

You can't compare jesus and mohammed, or different countries flags. Different values altogether.

LKike i said, someone should've asked around to check if it was offensive.

Just because it's not to us, doesn't mean it's not to them. Especially since EVERYONE knows how seriously they take the koran and religion.

And whats all this crap about who has to be understanding about gifts? Again, sorry toh, but you've really lost the plot here, since when is the reciever of a gift not obligated to be understanding? yes there is obligation on both sides but just because a gift is given it doesnt mean that the receiver is 'allowed' to be a twat in return.

Sure, you have to take crap gifts with a smile, as they are gifts, but if someone bought you a sign with "Dukat should die" on it, would you jsut smile and go "thank you, thank you".

That's the point. Even if a gift giver/reciever thing is a bit iffy in some areas, insulting gifts arn't less offensive because they are gifts.

But about this being a "gift to kids", i don't think that's the case, it's more probably the lack of knowledge to their culture that offended them.

 

[yaruar]

US football gift 'insults Islam' in Afghanistan - Telegraph
THE FUCK?

Whats next? they going to complain because the aid packets the red cross give them are an insult because they arent in arab-friendly colours?

Atually the red cross is kind of insulting to non christians, although that's why they have a sister organisation the red crescent.

 

[Thadius]

I hate anybody, that is anybody, who forces thier religion down your throat. My parents gave me the choice to worship what I like, how I like. I would like people to respect my decision, not tell me how I am going to hell

 

[Garok]

Could have been worse .. could have recieved "Tottenham Hotspur" footballs which would have been an insult to human decency !

 

[Thadius]

Could have been worse .. could have recieved "Tottenham Hotspur" footballs which would have been an insult to human decency !

Wait, Tottenham play football now?

 

[Olgaline]

When it comes to religion, the world could really learn something from countries like f.exp Tanzania, in the 10years i lived there, i saw how christians, muslims, hindu's, budist, and you name it could live side by side, infact you had churches and mosks, side by side, and everyone was respectful of eachothers religions, And you never ever saw anything as silly as this story.. Oh and do remind me again, Why is this even news worthy ?