Food for thought

[Baron]

Saw this on VN and thought it was excellent...

Once upon a time there was a game with three realms. These realms fought each other in a place called Emain Macha. When one realm attacked another realm, the realm that was being attacked put out a Call to Arms and people went out to defend their realm. That's what they used to call "RvR" back then. It was good.

Then came the introduction of the Arpee. It seemed pretty harmless at first. In fact it was almost inconsequential since the most someone might get is 50 for killing another player. However with time the Arpee got bigger and the bigger it got the more pursued it became because with the big Arpee came big power.

The Arpee grew and grew and people gave up everything to pursue it. They gave up the "gimp" characters they loved to play. They gave up the guilds they used to play with. They gave up the realms they used to defend. They gave it all up to get their name on the top of the Herald's lists as the person with the biggest Arpee.

Now there are two realms. There are the "8 Mans" and there are the "Zergers". It does not matter what realm they are from now because they are unified by their common disdain for one another. An "8 man" crew from Midgard has more in common with an "8 Man" crew from Hibernia than it does with the "Zergers" from Midgard. Go on and read the posts on the VN Boards if you don't agree with me.

Each realm accuses the other of "ruining the game" and each realm is convinced that they are playing the game "the way it was supposed to be played". Yet no matter how much they flame and argue and spam they can't convince the other side to adopt their position on the topic. They've become strangers living in the same house and the best that they can hope for is a kind of uneasy truce of silently ignoring the presence of the other realm. Neither side is right and neither side is wrong, but the argument is so old that people have stopped asking "why are we arguing" and simply argue because that is what they've always done.

The solution is available but it requires both sides to give a little ground so its not simple. The solution is to open a BG, talk to each other and simply kill anything with a red name in the home frontier any way we can. Won't happen though. The Apree is too big now and everyone wants it. It's become the "Holy Grail" of the Dark Age of Camelot.

-----signature-----

Tanemund

 

[eggy]

Ironic really; the best roleplaying game out there, and almost none of it's addicted players show interest in roleplaying, or understand the concept of 'war'.

True, groups are 8 people. That's a restriction in the game engine.

So, you run these 8-man groups. However, one accidental (or deliberate) 'add' and you're flamed by the group of sad individuals (who of course have the 'right' to add on you without flaming from their other l33t friends).

People need to be less arrogant and open themselves up to different standpoints. Not everyone plays the game the same way, for the same reasons or with the same aptitude. However, I'm a very liberal person...I appreciate everyone's viewpoints, a skill/hinderance(maybe?) other people lack.

However, arguing with whiners only fuels their ambition for 'fame' in their respective group of online comrades...the message will never get through.

End of the day, [highlight]play how you want to play[/highlight]. FH/IRC is an extension of the game community, not a requirement. If people don't like it, to hell with them!

 

[Danamyr]

So essentially what you're saying is that the player base has become dispportionally focused on a greedy quest for Realm Points to the sufference of fellow players and general morality?

I agree

 

[Thorwyn]

Ironic really; the best roleplaying game out there, and almost none of it's addicted players show interest in roleplaying, or understand the concept of 'war'.

Even worse... people who´re playing a massive multiplayer roleplaying game all the way up to 20+ mio rps, posting under the roleplaying game section of FH calling other people "roleplayers" (which is meant to be an insult), insinuating that "roleplayers" are actually nerds with no life.

 

[eggy]

Even worse... people who´re playing a massive multiplayer roleplaying game all the way up to 20+ mio rps, posting under the roleplaying game section of FH calling other people "roleplayers" (which is meant to be an insult), insinuating that "roleplayers" are actually nerds with no life.

Haha, genius. Rep.

 

[Javai]

Even worse... people who´re playing a massive multiplayer roleplaying game all the way up to 20+ mio rps, posting under the roleplaying game section of FH calling other people "roleplayers" (which is meant to be an insult), insinuating that "roleplayers" are actually nerds with no life.

It's cos they misunderstand the acronym mmorpg - they think it's massively multi-player on-line realm point game

 

[Lorimez Shadowblade]

People need to be less arrogant and open themselves up to different standpoints. Not everyone plays the game the same way, for the same reasons or with the same aptitude. However, I'm a very liberal person...I appreciate everyone's viewpoints, a skill/hinderance(maybe?) other people lack.

End of the day, [highlight]play how you want to play[/highlight]. FH/IRC is an extension of the game community, not a requirement. If people don't like it, to hell with them!

I totally agree. Maybe people have lost the idea behind daoc or maybe want daoc played their own way - what ever the case having the ablity to appreciate a different point of view is a definate advantage.

Heck - if 8 year old children can grasp that its ok to disagree with someone but arguing doesn't solve the problem - then there's hope for many of FH whiners

Good post and good comments - keep it up!

 

[Starbuck]

I think Mythic should cater for both types of people myself.

There must be money to be made from each group of customers who like to play the game differently.

 

[Zede]

Thing is, we all start off as "zergers" - and most of the time by accident discover "8 man grps".

We have all been there, sitting at keep, low rr, half finished template...then someone you know is alot higher rr PMs u and asks " lfg ?" you reply "yes" and then possibly have a night of rvr like you have never experienced.

your never quite the same after that, and sorry to say you realise how much better it can be ( in my opinion).

 

[Baron]

I love being in an opted 8 man group - who wouldn't.
I got critizied for because I admitted to liking zerging.
Maybe it's because I remember the open war in Emain before the release of DF when I first started playing.
Massive battles with no particular destination.
1 thing I do recall tho, is no one ever bitched about adding - oh well...

 

[Pirkel]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to eggy again.

:<

 

[eggy]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to eggy again.

:<

I gave you rep for that, and you went up 13 points.

Fear the power (albeit pointless and virtual) of the egg!

 

[Equador]

I gave you rep for that, and you went up 13 points.

Fear the power (albeit pointless and virtual) of the egg!

So the higher you are ranked ( due to rep ) the more your rep-points count? Good to know

 

[Sollac]

those days when rvr meant getting a few bods together and grow as the evening progresses, sometimes ending in a relic attempt.

i agree these days its all about the arpee....

selfish wankers yelling dont add and the noobie armsman not getting in a group "cos you not the right spec"...

have we all become that anal that the fun of the game is summat we have all forgotten about.

anyways installing dr tonite for champion lvls then maybe someone might invite me to a grp

 

[thaaadi]

From my own experience the "no-add" 8vs8 players are less rphorny, would easy get x2 the rps each night if our GG added on everything.
So the comments about "they dont wanna zerg like old days cuz' they want rps" is kinda stupid

 

[Kami]

Ultima Online is still the best Roleplay game, not DAOC. We need more fluff in DAOC before it can even start to compete with the masterful almost 3D complexity of UO !!! :-P

 

[Gazon]

From my own experience the "no-add" 8vs8 players are less rphorny, would easy get x2 the rps each night if our GG added on everything.
So the comments about "they dont wanna zerg like old days cuz' they want rps" is kinda stupid

Don't turn things around. "No-add" is STILL (partly) about the rp's:

1. Players try and chain 8v8 fights because it's the best and most reliable source of RP in the game. (nvm farming a zerg at a chokepoint: zergs at chokepoints are not always available, the next 8-man is.)
   Ofc it's also about pwning your direct opponent as explicitly as possible, but let's not be hypocritical: RP plays a very big part for everybody in RvR.
   
2. YOU make better RP when YOU don't get added upon.

So: it's in your own (RP-) interest to try and create a "non-adding environment".
People do this by:

• - Message Boards/IRC/... negatively or positively formulated propaganda: "You adding n00bs!"; "Gratz and thanks for the great night of non-adding RvR!"
• - Trying to set an "example" and be a "no-add" grp: "Don't add on them! (or they will add on us later)"
• - Which feeds back to propaganda when somebody doesn't "respect" your example and breaks the environment rules by adding on you: "We never add on you, why do you add on us n00b? QQ"

 

[evzy]

Look its simple really... I become king of all realms... whatever I say goes - If I say tonight its 8v8 - then its bloody well 8v8, if I say bored of that lets have some zerg - then I want a full metal Zerg.. If I say lets put all Warlocks heads on sticks... then someone better say "Sir how high would you like the sticks to be?"..........No arguments....No excuses.....No flaming...Or I get you banned from everything (including life as obviously I would have you be-headed for speaking against me!! )

Life would be soooo much easier with me as king ...honest

Vote ME !!!

 

[Bracken]

Even worse... people who´re playing a massive multiplayer roleplaying game all the way up to 20+ mio rps, posting under the roleplaying game section of FH calling other people "roleplayers" (which is meant to be an insult), insinuating that "roleplayers" are actually nerds with no life.

That's because whereas most of us peasants are playing a role (i.e. we get in from work, put on our pcs and start playing a game in which we have a pretend character, such as an armsman), the "elite" are in fact shamen, druids, mercenaries (or whichever character they appear to us as) in real life. So when they are running round the fair land of Emain dressed in armour they aren't playing a role and so can't be accused of "roleplaying". It's only those of us who come from that mythical land of "real life" and who possess characters called "personalities" that do that

 

[rampant]

prydwenites seem to love shouting out 'stop adding foools' more so than excalibites

 

[Aoln]

Good work completely neglecting the entire proportion of soloers.

 

[xanir]

I love how the guy that originally posted that stuff can't see how he's doing exactly what he's complaining about, i.e. not seeing the other people's perspective xd

also, many people seem to forget that there are other people playing the other characters, and it seems to me that the whole "I'm gonna play the game the way I want" is fine as long as people are prepared to admit that they are playing for their own pleasure above everything else, and do not in fact give a shit about other people. What annoys me just as much as adders saying don't add is people who admit adding suggesting that they are wonderful caring examples of humanity

 

[Gazon]

Good work completely neglecting the entire proportion of soloers.

The soloers that demand a 1v1 game fit into the same category as the 8v8 ppl.
You can solo as much as you like but expecting ppl to leave you alone with your fight is ludicrous in a FFA game.

 

[>.< Pooned]

I love being in an opted 8 man group - who wouldn't.
I got critizied for because I admitted to liking zerging.
Maybe it's because I remember the open war in Emain before the release of DF when I first started playing.
Massive battles with no particular destination.
1 thing I do recall tho, is no one ever bitched about adding - oh well...

and u come to my words






BRING OLD FRONTIERS BACK GIMPS ..............

U loosing costumers if u didnt notice from time to time

 

[Bracken]

1 thing I do recall tho, is no one ever bitched about adding - oh well...

If we could access the old BW boards I think you'd find they did

 

[Sollac]

If we could access the old BW boards I think you'd find they did

here here...

yeah they did...pretty much same arguement as now.....Zerg rules, brings the realm together...

<rant mode on>

all you whiney 1v1 go play counterstrike, all you 8v8 stop whineing about everything.

one of the best games in the world is one big ass zerg.. proper warfare isnt 8v8.... watch braveheart...dont here william wallace shouting......MY RP!!!!!

planetside is about working as a realm..working together for 1 goal.....
you get points for working together as well as individual things.

zerg is the furture of realm, remember that word. R E A L M warfare..

its not solo, its not group, its not even BG....its fooking REALM warfare....

<rant mode off>

 

[Sollac]

wasnt the cry to get old emain back, cos it was fun.. it was aq big ass bottle neck for zerg vs zerg encounters.

Pretty much all the mids are happy about agromon, they got walls to camp with warcocks, hibs are happy as they got walls to camp with wall banging chanters and bainshees......

us albs.....wwe just enjoy it all knowing youll get nerfed in the end

 

[Belomar]

The problem with zergs is that the IQ of the zerg combined is generally equal to its most stupid participant divided by its size. Zergers are prone to AFKing without warning, sticking the nearest person who shouts the loudest, lacking any form of coordination, and spamming AE spells, ML abilities and RAs like monkeys flinging shit.

I am not saying that zergs are bad. I am saying that maintaining "discipline" becomes exponentially harder for larger forces than a full group. Once surrounded by a large enough force of fellow realm members, most people tend to get complacent and play at half of their ability (at best). All tactics and coordination goes out the window the second an enemy is encountered. I imagine everyone would like large-scale battles much better if it was not so hard to do "properly" (i.e. group members fighting as a unit and with clear objectives and cohesion) in DAoC.

Another major problem with zerg warfare is that most zerg battles are uninteresting due to differences in the size of the combatant forces. Most of the time, one of the two battling zergs will have a considerable numerical advantage, leading to the other zerg being overrun quite quickly. Everyone remembers the huge, sweeping battles in the bowl of Emain Macha that went on for a long time, but those were only really possible when the armies were pretty evenly matched. At least you don't (generally) have that problem in FG vs FG warfare; you meet another FG of eight people, you fight them, and the outcome depends mostly on the skill and setup of the winning group. (Of course, a large portion of the whining going on from the FG camp is due to others "breaching" this "rule" of only bringing a full group to the fight.)

 

[Sollac]

perhaps if albs and the other realms realised the potential for proper groups not opted groups we might get this rvr sorted....

zerg forms...... have all inf grpd and then sent out to find enemy.

7 scouts grp with friar.......any target assisted is dead no matter what peeps say.

tank gruops pallys /arms with aoe buffs no more,,,,

mercs and reavers as skirmishers....for flanking tactics

casters supporting the tanks with gtaoes, long range attacks and helping protect the healers.....

its possible if people leave their egos at the door.

think we as albs should push this idea and show the rest how iots done...

 

[Straef]

From my own experience the "no-add" 8vs8 players are less rphorny, would easy get x2 the rps each night if our GG added on everything.
So the comments about "they dont wanna zerg like old days cuz' they want rps" is kinda stupid

Aye. It's fairly easy to win a fight and gain rps when you're the last to join in, or to simply camp a busy spot, and not doing so might not get you as many rps, but it does give you a good fight when you actually get one

casters supporting the tanks with gtaoes, long range attacks and helping protect the healers...

Good luck finding earth wizards