Fitna

[rynnor]

Regardless of your views on its content I find it disgusting that youtube etc are too gutless to allow it to be hosted.

How can we pretend to have anything like free speech in the world with this kind of crap going on!

Apparently its merely some academics talking about islam and some scenes off the news before anyone raises the unfit material charge.

The guys most likely to be assasinated in the not too distant future so its a huge disrespect to be too gutless to even host it!

 

[dysfunction]

I have no idea what you are talking about...

 

[Lazarus]

i have no idea what dysfunction says you are talking about

 

[Lazarus]

i do now

'Fitna': Dutch leader's anti-Islam film brings strife | csmonitor.com

 

[Ch3tan]

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Dutch MP posts Islam film on web

 

[TdC]

I take offence to Geert Wilders being labled a 'Dutch Leader'.

Also I applaud him being in parliament. Why? Because he's the chewing-gum stuck in their salmon-pink party carpet, and keeps them on their toes. Without him, and that hot chick from the animal party nothing would ever ever get fucking done around here, like ever. However I most certainly do not applaud him making 'fitna', because he's done it for the exclusive reasons of pissing people off, causing unrest and being an attention whore worse than anyone you could possibly imagine. He's won already, with all the media hype, the film doesn't need to be shown, or even exist. The hatred he's sown is already there.

 

[rynnor]

Well I found it and watched it - its pretty inflammatory but theres nothing in it thats not in the public domain and the key question of whether democracy can co-exist with Islam is a troubling one but he has no answers as to what should be done about it.

Actually its the Islamic backlash against the film that kind of proves his point to a fair degree...

 

[Furr]

what rynnor said,

It's almost become a game now to put this sort of material out to prove a point, and each time they mass riot, call for death to the infidels, lock up teachers, murder nuns etc etc, it only alienates them from everyone else and further pushes the Muslims into becoming the new Jews of Europe.

 

[old.SevenSins]

One big fluke is what I'll say.

Linking a ritual festival to terrorism; bad
Posting an image of a rapper, and label it as the person who shot Theo van Gogh, Mohammed B.; bad
Using the danish cartoonists copyrighted material without asking permission (which he wouldn't have given); bad
Only using snippets of sentences of the koran, taken completely out of context that way; bad

And I'm saying this as an atheist dutchie, this piece of garbage powerpoint presentation with stolen material is nothing but a big laugh.

He had the attention, he had a lot of ways he could go with it, and he delivers this.

I say noone kill him, but start sueing him till he kills himself lol.

 

[Dukat]

I got as far as "hot chick from the animal party" in TdC's post and suddenly I forget what we were talking about

 

[TdC]

A kindred soul! I think about hot chicks with animals all the time too mate

 

[Chilly]

clearly, going by your avatar pic

 

[tris-]

if someone did this with the christian bible no one would give a shit.

so why does it matter if its the koran?

 

[nath]

if someone did this with the christian bible no one would give a shit.

so why does it matter if its the koran?

Relatively speaking Life of Brian wasn't that long ago and a LOT of people gave a shit about that. In fact plenty still do. They're all batshit crazy though. That wasn't even a direct attack on Christianity - merely a general pisstake of morons and unthinking followers.

 

[Lazarus]

Relatively speaking Life of Brian wasn't that long ago and a LOT of people gave a shit about that. In fact plenty still do. They're all batshit crazy though. That wasn't even a direct attack on Christianity - merely a general pisstake of morons and unthinking followers.

but, so called "christians" dont gather in gangs and cut people up for something that railed against their beliefs.

a minority of the supporters of the Koran do........even if the koran preaches that they shouldnt.

fecking lunacy if you ask me.

 

[nath]

Northern Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Violence justified by religion isn't the exclusive domain of Islam.

 

[Dukat]

Northern Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Violence justified by religion isn't the exclusive domain of Islam.

You're right nath, it isn't, but wouldnt you agree they whilst it isn't the exclusive domain of Islam, that they're atleast approaching a near-monopoly on it in the last few years? When it comes to religiously motivated stuff I mean.

How often did the IRA kidnap foreigners who were completely unrelated to brits or protestants in general and threaten cut thier heads off if thier demands weren't met? I know a LOT of Civies died, but how many of them were specifically targetted? (I cant believe I'm almost defending the IRA here... uke

Possibly not the best example in the world, and I know that many in the IRA used religion as an excuse to do violence, just as it is with many "muslim" groups in the middle east, but cant you see that things are a bit different here?

Northern Island was precipitated by a lot more than a film or a comic, as is the middle east, but what Lazarus is saying I think is that the "muslim" response to these things is out of all proportion when compared to the Christian response to the same.

God forbid anyone makes a film called "The life of Abdul"

 

[nath]

Northern Ireland may have been a poor example, but my point is simply that there are extremists for more or less every religion. All I know for certain is that the media highlights far more Islamic extremism than other forms, more than that I've no idea. It may well be a fair representation too but when it comes to the media I don't take anything at face value.

 

[Will]

...When it comes to religiously motivated stuff I mean.

There is a difference between religiously motivated and religiously justified. The motive is rarely as obvious as it seems.

 

[DaGaffer]

Northern Ireland may have been a poor example, but my point is simply that there are extremists for more or less every religion. All I know for certain is that the media highlights far more Islamic extremism than other forms, more than that I've no idea. It may well be a fair representation too but when it comes to the media I don't take anything at face value.

The problem is that all violence that comes from the Middle East is automatically classed as "Islamic", when religion is only part of the issue and in many cases not even the major part. Sure, Al-Qeada is clearly islamist, and so is Hezbollah, but Hamas? The PLO? Not really. Their motivations are ethnic, but of course moslems identify themselves with their religion as much as they do with their ethnicity, far more so than most Christians, which makes demonisation via religion far easier. The IRA were terrorists who came from the Catholic community, but their objectives weren't to do with any kind of religious goal (indeed the modern IRA was Marxist if anything), but rather an ethnic/nationalist agenda. Even in the former Yugoslavia, religious affiliation was a secondary issue when compared to nationalist/ethnic affiliation (Croats are Catholic, Serbs Orthodox, but religion was used to reinforce differences rather than be the defining characteristic).

Its easier for western politicians and the media to demonise a faceless group such as moslems rather than reflect the far more complicated motivations of the various factions who happen to be moslem. Its why they keep trying to pin a lot of the Iraq violence on Al-Qeada operatives when in reality they're a non-issue in what is really a moslem-on-moslem, essentially tribal conflict.

 

[Wij]

Even in the former Yugoslavia, religious affiliation was a secondary issue when compared to nationalist/ethnic affiliation (Croats are Catholic, Serbs Orthodox, but religion was used to reinforce differences rather than be the defining characteristic).

Oooh - I seem to remember Christpoher Hitchens said the opposite.

 

[DaGaffer]

Oooh - I seem to remember Christpoher Hitchens said the opposite.

Well that just proves me right then

 

[gohan]

go to afghan iraq iran saudi palastien whateva

and see the shit and properganda they sling about jews catholics christians the evils of the west ect ect

then the get all shitty an start blowing things up if euro/us countries do the same

not saying its right but who the fuck asked thier opinion on it, for all i care the middle east can just implode itself, would save alot of shit build a big fence round it and let them kill each other without our interference, they've been doing it for centurys wtf makes us and the americans think we can or should change that?

 

[throdgrain]

I mostly agree with Gohan actually, except for his spelling of course.

Its just the standard bollocks. In fact , I cba to type any more.

 

[Wij]

Well that just proves me right then

You'll be dissing PJ O'Rourke next

 

[DaGaffer]

You'll be dissing PJ O'Rourke next

Nah, at least he has the good grace to be funny. Any credibility Hitchens may have had went up in smoke with his unswerving support for the Iraq war.