Fins list, not a whine

[Chameleon]

Just wanted to add some constructive comment to the issue of the fins list in CF. It's not a whine cos I've "waited ages and not got on" or "been unfairly treated there", just something I wanted to mention:

When requesting to be added to the list i sometimes get the reply "ok your added. you are 6th tank", or times I'll get "ok your added and are 8th on rogue list".

For the most part the list is run the same way, all of the time, but there are small differences now and then and my example above is one of them ......

my point being ...... myself, a 49 ns for example, could wait in line in the rogues list, which effectively is ONE reserved place in the group for that class, or could be added in with the rest of the tanks, opening up 3 spaces for tanks/light tanks (bm/ns/ranger).

I was fortunate (heheh ) to have the flu for 3 days and was able to get at fins for about 5 a.m. (as I could not sleep) and got some excellent, fast xp from 45-49 ish. I can say categorically that above level 45 I was able to tank AT LEAST as well as any s/s, lw, cs or other type of heavy tank. The job in a pb group of this type is to HOLD aggro, not to deal out damage. Combine the aggro holding of the quick pierce moves and the evade ability, plus a shield (even non specced) and you will be as effective as anyone at aggroing a mob and holding him in pbaoe without dying.
Obviously this needs to be done with a degree of common sense, but no moreso than is required already. I.e. You don't want to find yourself with 2 low regrow specced bards (no druids on list) and then end up with 2x lvl 42 rangers and a lvl 42 nightshade ... but equally bad from my experiences there are <43 tanks at holding the mobs attention away from mages. This is why you quote your level and class to the list holder when adding yourself .... for most of the classes the list holder needs to sometimes make decisions on who gets called based on what the current levels of the other members are in the group.

I plan to get my last 4.9 bubbles by helping guild mates level and doing some DF raids (i hope), so I mean it when I say this isn't about ME, i'm thinking more of the upcoming players who might face this issue.

In short, I think that as far as possible, if of sufficient level, all tanks, heavy or light should be treated as suitable for any of the tank spots in the fins list.

Anyway, again, it's not whine or flame. I'm sure people have their stories about what happened this time and that time to them at fins or on the list, but rather than go down that same old 'fins thread' route, please try to see this as constructive comment, as it was intended.

 

[Hestetun]

I agree its not whine thing, but when u are on all day and when u added on the list ur where 5 and when u ask few hours later and are on all day and end up as 6 then I think the list holder sucks and deserve all the whine he gets.! If rule the list good then its np, but unfortenly is many noobs still at lvl 44+ that mix the list as the sute them =(

 

[eneq]

Well i agree with you to 100 % really.
As long as NS can tank ok then he can have a tank spot.
But on the other hand a Hero specced shield can basically b a blocking helper to a low lvl tank..
So a lvl 48 tank with shield specced (and who isnt ? ) makes the ranger/ns low lvl char to basically b shield specced...Therefore save alot of heals..

I think the rouge spot was first made so that at least 1 ranger/NS would come in group. Becasue No-one wanted/wants a ranger or NS in a PBAOE group.

Conclusion is that a Shield specced Tank is better then any NS in PBAOE groups but do we need to b uber in every single Fin group...

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

In the past there were no realm abilites, no darkness falls / random drops, and no spellcraft/alchemy items enhancements.
... and the exp sucked bad from 40+.

With all these improvements I would have though that the typical group could take on monsters a fair few levels above what we used to do when our first wave expd to 50.

If you can taunt a fin so it doesnt munch on the elphs, then you can probably do fins

 

[-Nuked-]

a suggestion i wouldnt mind putting into action

everyone has had the list screwed up for them atleast once so i had an idea which i will put into action (if i can) next time im the the main group.

someone from each class holds a part of the list

tank holds tank list
nuker/ment holds caster list
healer holders healer list
(could also have an offspring list for ments and wardens)

was just wondering if this has been tried b 4?

i dun know if it will work but i figure the smaller the list is for each person the less chance there is of making a mistake!

 

[Aloca]

everyone has had the list screwed up for them atleast once so i had an idea which i will put into action (if i can) next time im the the main group.

someone from each class holds a part of the list

tank holds tank list
nuker/ment holds caster list
healer holders healer list
(could also have an offspring list for ments and wardens)

was just wondering if this has been tried b 4?

i dun know if it will work but i figure the smaller the list is for each person the less chance there is of making a mistake!

Shouldnt work..


About the fins list. it is often a bit diff in how the holder write the list and what the rules is. sometimes a shade/ranger even lvl 49+ adds on the stalker list. I personaly did so. thought it worked good. tho there is only 1 spot that spot can move faster or slower, but it shouldnt be fare if a stalker could choose list and add them self on the list with fewest peps on.

i did hold the list almost everytime i was in fins. this i how i first wrote it up
1:tanks (champ/hero) 2spots
2:warden
3:bard
4:mage 2spots
5:stalker (ns/ranger)
6:druid

bard,mage is a bit special. some ments can be both bard and mage as u only use power song at fins so a fins grp can have 2ments and a pb or 1bard 1light/void mage. 1mana-mage
So i think the hard part is to get a good system how to add non pb and ments.

my last night at fins when i reached lvl 50 was very über. we had almost only lvl 49 peps in grp and becouse of that didnt split at night as everyone wanted lvl50. we had 2champs, me(stalker),druid,warden,ment,pbmage that was what we needed but just to be fare we did throw in a bard also. this happend. the mana ment was the key to the grp. did much dmg,made the healers out of work with hot, and boosted everyones power to max very fast. we could easy do fins with 1-2healers afk and a tank/stalker. we could also do it fast with ment afk BUT then he could only be afk at top 5min becouse of pot ran out and then we had much slower pulling time.
So with this grp i as the puller had to say OOF (out of fins) at the almost insta respawn spot betwean each pull. we sometime pulled other things just becouse the fins at insta respawn did spawn to slow

 

[VodkaFairy]

Shield tanks may have a nice blocking/parrying rate but nightshades have 50ish% evade which is nice aswell.. And most nightshades need so damn much time for leveling they know their char inside out so you can count on good tanking skills...

Nightshades are fine tanks and should be allowed as tank in the fins group/list!!

 

[anno_dk]

I must say i was really surprised by a ns tanking skills. I remember back when i was the chanter, bard, warden and didn't wanna grp a ns really, but now my view have changed. if u know how to play a ns just a bit u can get through a couple of pulls at fins without getting hit at all. Evade+stun+hm is great

 

[old.Xanthian]

I dont think that ppls opinions on NS tanks is because of thier dmg output.
Yes they cant taunt and can probably do it better than any other class.
But its the fact they are rogues and have significantly less HP than any normal tank, having less HP could sometimes put a group in danger, all it takes is a double hit after popping BT and you probably got a dead shade/ranger, and thus putting group in danger.
I personally dont mind 1 rogue tank, but I feel the above reason is why they are left out.

 

[arleen]

Hmm.in my experience as a druid I have found that champions require more healing than shades generally over a set period of time.

True that once a shade gets whacked hard it can be a race between me and the mob for me to get that heal in before the next fatal blow arrives.

All in all I welcome a shade or ranger in the group...having no MR has a greater affect on my downtime.

 

[Alkoran]

NS and BMs are deffinately better tanks than CS and Large weapon users...the ranking probably goes a bit like this

Shield spec BM (yes they are the best)
Shield spec hero
Shield Champ (proper shield champ)
Heavy Parry BM
Nightshade
Any other BM
other Hero
other Champ

not sure where rangers sit in this though

 

[VodkaFairy]

On the bottom Ranger defence is horrible.

 

[Danya]

BTW if you get a reply saying you're 6th on the list ask for the names of the others on the list and go make a group somewhere else. I don't see why we need to have 20 people sat on a fins list when they could all go the EZ etc and get some xp.

 

[old.Nol]

There are fins out near crim that are camped very seldom. You get a 10% keep bonus at them, and the odd opportunity to kill some inbound baddies. I went from 45-50 on those crims, not once did we have a group wipeout, not once were we wiped out by invaders.

It was actually very exciting for me to xp and dodge badly stealthed infil's or dodge arrows from silly kobolds behind trees.

 

[Aloca]

There are fins out near crim that are camped very seldom. You get a 10% keep bonus at them, and the odd opportunity to kill some inbound baddies. I went from 45-50 on those crims, not once did we have a group wipeout, not once were we wiped out by invaders.

It was actually very exciting for me to xp and dodge badly stealthed infil's or dodge arrows from silly kobolds behind trees.

That is still possible but alot harder with the new Rvr dungeon just next to fins u will see much more invaders disturbing u

 

[elerand]

Done fins with 2 ns and a ranger, lvl 45-48, think good players help a lot and we were pulling non-stop, still, guess having a high regrowth spec warden really helped! Most people are used to pants bard heals

 

[Anu]

I'm scared :uhoh: to put my name on bards list for it will be HUGE!!!!!!!!! and the wait will be FOREVER!!!

 

[Aloca]

[qoute]I'm scared to put my name on bards list for it will be HUGE!!!!!!!!! and the wait will be FOREVER!!![/quote]

Those time i started fins grp at morning i had after 1hour playing about 4-5+ bard and all the other lists empty :wall:

 

[Faeldawn]

I have held the list many times, and refuse to run a stalker list. Shades 44+ and Rangers 45+ always go on the tank list when im running it, a stalker list sux, and its a complete waste of time. Stalkers of the mentioned lvls can tank relly well with a good pbt as support, all they have to do is get the right mob, stack and taunt.

PLUS, for any void/light spec mages or Mentas who are curious, when i run the list, i run 2 mage spots, one for pboe, one for misc mages, and am quite happy to sub a menta for an eld or a bard.

 

[Faeldawn]

Originally posted by elerand
Done fins with 2 ns and a ranger, lvl 45-48, think good players help a lot and we were pulling non-stop, still, guess having a high regrowth spec warden really helped! Most people are used to pants bard heals

Actually have done crim fins once with the following:

2 Wardens
2 Shades
1 Ranger
1 Void
1 Menta
1 light spec chanter

Was fun, lil bit slower that using a mana chanter, but almost zero down time, shades do gr8 dmg, and rangers range for pulling meant no running around, in about 4 hrs tanks lost aggro twice, due to our mages getting a lil trigger happy, but only one death.

 

[Chameleon]

Originally posted by Faeldawn
I have held the list many times, and refuse to run a stalker list. Shades 44+ and Rangers 45+ always go on the tank list when im running it, a stalker list sux, and its a complete waste of time. Stalkers of the mentioned lvls can tank relly well with a good pbt as support, all they have to do is get the right mob, stack and taunt.

PLUS, for any void/light spec mages or Mentas who are curious, when i run the list, i run 2 mage spots, one for pboe, one for misc mages, and am quite happy to sub a menta for an eld or a bard.

Aye Fael, that's the way i think the list should be run also. I know there are others that do this too, so it's not all bad
We have one or two 'non-standard' mages in our guild also and for the first time ever I feel lucky to be a ns ... as they have a much harder time getting into the fins group than I do.
No one can force anyone else to do the list a certain way of course ... it's a tough job anyway, but maybe some small changes like this in future can help one or two get to the elusive 50

 

[Anu]

Originally posted by Aloca

I'm scared to put my name on bards list for it will be HUGE!!!!!!!!! and the wait will be FOREVER!!!

Those time i started fins grp at morning i had after 1hour playing about 4-5+ bard and all the other lists empty :wall: [/B]

Exactly .. I have had 1 fins invite but to the fins near the river. Was quite amazed.. all i want is lvl 43 for SPEEEEEEEED 5 and i'm happy to lvl the other 7 level's whenever

 

[Faeldawn]

Originally posted by Ch@meleon

it's a tough job anyway, but maybe some small changes like this in future can help one or two get to the elusive 50

More assorted lvl 50's in the realm, the stronger Hibernia becomes, nuff sed

 

[Aloca]

About tanking. I did a little testing how much taunt hits u must do to have perm aggro.
i was lvl 49 and with the grp we had i could hold aggro with 1 taunt hit and the rest unstyled. tho that isnt very safe if u have a ligh mage or a healer need to heal much. so if a tank do about 2-3taunt hits on a fin there is no problem holding aggro if not druid punch the suicide button (called insta grp heal).
a LW or spearo has even easier to get aggro

 

[Fatbloke]

Originally posted by Aloca
...if not druid punch the suicide button (called insta grp heal).

Heh - that suicide button saves your ass boy

But seriously, I question why some here are glad to merge stalkers into tank group, but then split mages into two groups??

I've always put stalkers into tanks group and all mages go together - if they can cast an offensive spell, that's good enough for me!

 

[old.Mitsu]

There is one problem with no "real" tanks in the group tho.

No protect.

 

[Faeldawn]

Originally posted by Fatbloke


But seriously, I question why some here are glad to merge stalkers into tank group, but then split mages into two groups??

I've always put stalkers into tanks group and all mages go together - if they can cast an offensive spell, that's good enough for me!

Thats the way it used to be m8, and i agree that its fair to do it your way. Problem nowadays is that there are so many mana chanters and so few non-mana elds/chanters, that the list gets very congested if only one list for offensive mages.

As for protects/guard i would have to agree it helps, but its a luxury really, and not essential.

As for LW/CS tanks, yes, once they hit they hold aggro no worries, but if they miss the first taunt, or even the second, by that time the mob is all over a healer/caster like a rash. High lvl LW/CS heros/champs kick ass in ANY group, but for fin killing any "tank" of lvl will do, thats the beauty of it.