Finally! A good reason to live in america!

[Dukat]

Wiki agrees with me

But please explain what you think actually happened?

How does that article substantiate your statement? even if wikipedia could substantiate anything, what is written in that article and what you posted are two very different things. We're about to open a rather large can of worms.

First off, read a few select quotes from the local newspaper for my area - the eastern daily press's articles on this event:
EDP24 News - Tony Martin file

Specifically:
The "child" Tony Martin "hunted down and shot" was actually a convicted criminal freshly bailed for another burglary - he was one of three people who were breaking and entering into his home in the dead of night. Tony Martin went down stairs and shot at the intruders. He didnt hunt them down at all, once they were off of his property he didnt chase them. One of them later died of thier wounds.

why (were) three burglars with more than 100 convictions between them were still roaming the countryside(?). They found a pink bail sheet in Fred Barras’s pocket when they came across his broken body lying in the undergrowth. He had been arrested on suspicion of stealing garden furniture a few days before his final thieving expedition.

Darren Bark had only been free for a few weeks before he drove Barras and Fearon from Newark to Norfolk. A four-year sentence for antique theft had just been commuted to two years on appeal.

In an interview published in the EDP two weeks ago, Brendan Fearon pledged he was going straight. Darren Bark had other ideas when he was released from prison, after serving part of a 42-month sentence for his part in the Bleak House break-in and an unconnected burglary.

On the day Martin stepped into the dock at the Appeal Court, Bark admitted burglary, making threats to kill and causing actual bodily harm in front of Judge Linda Sutcliffe at Sheffield Crown Court. He was remanded in custody and sentence was adjourned until November 12.

The three people in question are not the sort of people you'd like to meet in a dark alley, let alone meet uninvited inside your own home in the middle of the night.

Oh, and by the way the sentence was changed from murder to manslaughter - in the eyes of the law he didnt "murder" the "child" at all.

 

[leviathane]

why kill em though, woulda been better to knee cap em, life of pain tht way.

/Edit. But having seen this sorta stuff in the news over here in the uk, and other parts of the world. What gives these low life scum the fcking right break into other peoples houses and take their hard earned belongings. And if anything happens to them they can sue/ get the house owner arrested and jail time. I feel killing them is a lil harsh by all means but I do feel that the justice systems really need to start protecting the general public more and not scum crooks.

 

[tierk]

Didnt realise he went next door to shoot them hah......

You are a fucking idiot then, considering that the link you posted is showing up as ........

Texas shooting of burglars at neighbors' raises debate - The Boston Globe

Although i do agree that criminals do get it easy in the UK i would just like to ask you one question. If it is ok to shoot a person dead for breaking into your house and trying to steal, for the sake of argument, a TV, then why is it considered so barbaric to cut off his hand instead as it is done in some muslim countries?

 

[Dukat]

You are a fucking idiot then, considering that the link you posted is showing up as ........

Although i do agree that criminals do get it easy in the UK i would just like to ask you one question. If it is ok to shoot a person dead for breaking into your house and trying to steal, for the sake of argument, a TV, then why is it considered so barbaric to cut off his hand instead as it is done in some muslim countries?

Oh god here we fucking go again...

Cant we have one, just one argument that doesnt involve islam? just for once? You know my views on this and I know yours so lets just agree to disagree. We're not going to get anywhere with the argument and this thread will end up a waste just like the other you and me have started in.

I scanned the story without seeing what the link said, it could've said "flying elephant saves the world" for all I knew because I didnt read it. Fucking sue me.

I stand by what I've said because I do believe in defending yourself - I'm not taking it back just because the troll brigade has rolled in firing on all cylinders.

 

[aika]

how tierk always turns a totally non religious topic into something to do with Islam is beyond me :E

 

[tierk]

Oh god here we fucking go again....

Well considering that we are in agreement about the subject matter - that it is acceptable or not to defend your property with lethal force or not, i dont get what the problem is. I have made myself very clear about this on another thread.......

I couldnt careless where he shot him to be honest. The scum bags broke into his house repeatedly............They deserved everything they got............

Was just pointing out you are a idiot for posting that link and not realising that the guy shot the crooks at a neighbours house rather then defending his own property.

how tierk always turns a totally non religious topic into something to do with Islam is beyond me :E

A lot of things are beyond you but it is not your fault you cant help the way you were born.

I didnt think that it was such a difficult question to answer but then i guess i dont have difficuties you suffer from.

 

[Wonk]

I dont care about the topic here, but stop acting like a fucking retard if you want to point out something.

Thanks.

 

[Howley]

Heard this call bout 2-3weeks ago... didnt read through all the comments here but this is the call from the Shooter

imo he was pretty extreme to shoot both of them dead but /shrug decide for urself (think the guy hasn't been threatened with jail either)

:england: <inserts American Flag>

 

[kivik]

/Edit. But having seen this sorta stuff in the news over here in the uk, and other parts of the world. What gives these low life scum the fcking right break into other peoples houses and take their hard earned belongings. And if anything happens to them they can sue/ get the house owner arrested and jail time. I feel killing them is a lil harsh by all means but I do feel that the justice systems really need to start protecting the general public more and not scum crooks.

Funny how people view criminals as people that just want to steal your things. There is a bigger picture you have to look at.

Some people just didn't grow up with the same priveligies you all had. Maybe their parents were criminals, maybe they just couldn't study and get education. For whatever reason, many criminals just don't choose to be criminals. Probably their pride stops them from leeching of the system. They just become criminals because there is no other way for them.

I'm not saying you should invite a burglar for tea next time you get one in your house. BUT these people need help, not bullets in their ass.

 

[leviathane]

...........

Be interesting to see if you still had the same opinion if you had your house broken into by some lil scrutty chavs that grew up in perfectly fine middle class families or something like that.
And so some people can't afford a tv or something, it's not really the end of the world. I don't own a tv myself cos i don't want/need/can't afford it, i don't go round stealing someones tv. End of the days theres always gonna be someone alot worse off than you are.

 

[kivik]

Be interesting to see if you still had the same opinion if you had your house broken into by some lil scrutty chavs that grew up in perfectly fine middle class families or something like that.
And so some people can't afford a tv or something, it's not really the end of the world. I don't own a tv myself cos i don't want/need/can't afford it, i don't go round stealing someones tv. End of the days theres always gonna be someone alot worse off than you are.

Some people... /.../ many criminals.

They don't steal TVs because they need it, they steal a TV to sell it and earn money.

 

[leviathane]

then the whole of the student population should be stealing then really. Or in Sweden are students mega rich.

/edit, Bottom line really is i don't believe that stealing is right and there are other ways to get a hold of money, not that hard to sponge of the government, most people seem to these days.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Funny how people view criminals as people that just want to steal your things. There is a bigger picture you have to look at.

Some people just didn't grow up with the same priveligies you all had. Maybe their parents were criminals, maybe they just couldn't study and get education. For whatever reason, many criminals just don't choose to be criminals. Probably their pride stops them from leeching of the system. They just become criminals because there is no other way for them.

I'm not saying you should invite a burglar for tea next time you get one in your house. BUT these people need help, not bullets in their ass.

Because of attitudes like that the laws in Europe are what they are. Im sure most criminals had pretty fucked up childhoods and dont get on well financially. But the truth is that in western Europe you do not have to steal to survive. There are always other ways. So yes, they choose to be criminals.

Their pride stops them from leeching of the system so they start robbing houses? Good one

They do indeed need help. But if they commit a crime then they give up that right.

If someone breaks in to your house you have the right to injure them. But i do think that if your intention is to kill them then you should be punished.

 

[kivik]

then the whole of the student population should be stealing then really. Or in Sweden are students mega rich.

/edit, Bottom line really is i don't believe that stealing is right and there are other ways to get a hold of money, not that hard to sponge of the government, most people seem to these days.

It's different from person to person. It isn't as simple as 'everyone who needs money steals'. More like 'many people who have had a bad childhood, bad parents, and certain personality traits and need money risk to fall into criminal habits'.

I'm just argueing the way people look at these people. They are not scums of the earth. They are just people that have bigger problems than you.

 

[kivik]

Because of attitudes like that the laws in Europe are what they are. Im sure most criminals had pretty fucked up childhoods and dont get on well financially. But the truth is that in western Europe you do not have to steal to survive. There are always other ways. So yes, they choose to be criminals.

Last time I checked, USA wasn't a part of western Europe. And there is very little criminality in Europe compared to other parts of the world. Much of that thanks to those laws.

 

[leviathane]

And yet the uk has some of the highest crime rate in the world for what reason?

 

[Bugz]

That's a pretty extreme logic there Kivik.

There is NO excuse for being a criminal. Justifying it is just plain stupid. Justify self-defense leading to manslaughter but don't try to justify a little fuck breaking into your house.

There are so many opportunities in Europe, it's hard not to be able to live a comfortable life on the brink of the poverty line - hell benefits prob make that possible on their own.

Personally, i think we're too quick to blame 'bad childhoods' etc. on these issues. Ironically enough, most of the fucks in my school or who were in my school came from middle-class backgrounds who simply acted like shiny-ass boys at home but complete tearaway s on the street.

Of course, if we're talking extremely bad childhoods in the form of rape and so on, then maybe I can sympathize but often these individuals (unfortunately enough) will be bigger (and have bigger) problems than just thieving from a couple of houses.

 

[kivik]

That's a pretty extreme logic there Kivik.

There is NO excuse for being a criminal. Justifying it is just plain stupid. Justify self-defense leading to manslaughter but don't try to justify a little fuck breaking into your house.

There are so many opportunities in Europe, it's hard not to be able to live a comfortable life on the brink of the poverty line - hell benefits prob make that possible on their own.

Personally, i think we're too quick to blame 'bad childhoods' etc. on these issues. Ironically enough, most of the fucks in my school or who were in my school came from middle-class backgrounds who simply acted like shiny-ass boys at home but complete tearaway s on the street.

Of course, if we're talking extremely bad childhoods in the form of rape and so on, then maybe I can sympathize but often these individuals (unfortunately enough) will be bigger (and have bigger) problems than just thieving from a couple of houses.

I'm not trying to justify criminals. Just to change the view of them all being scums of the earth. It's not only bad childhood, personality traits plays a big role I believe. Even some of the most violent criminals hides a twisted person with a tragic life.

Am I becoming toth?

Oh and: "the UK - some of the highest crime rate in the world!"

Haha, made me laugh