Feel the Nerf

[stu]

You know that uber-nerf to assassins that people have been talking about coming for ages?

Here it is

Camelot 1.56b Test Release Notes

There's no way to sugar coat this - these steps will make Assassins less effective in direct combat.

- We've removed the Ignore Pain Realm Ability from all three Assassin classes. These classes have been granted back the realm training points they spent to get Ignore Pain. It was an oversight that Assassins were given IP at all, and we should have taken it away sooner.

- We are capping the maximum amount that any player (of any class) can evade at 50%. Assassins are the only classes that can currently go above this cap, by linking together their Evade 7 ability, plus the Realm Ability Dodger, plus bonuses from stats. Assassins will be granted a Realm Ability respec for those who no longer want Dodger ability (as it is usually Dodger that pushes them above 50%). Please note that you will get the realm ability respec only if you currently have Dodger and you are either a Nightshade, a Shadowblade, or an Infiltrator.

Of course we know that the Assassin community in general will not like these changes - however, this is one of those things we have to do for the good of the game.

The patch notes as a whole seem pretty good - probably the biggest changes to go into the game for a long time. Healing classes, Warriors and Hunters all get major much needed changes - but why do I get the feeling everyone's gonna be talking about the assassins...

 

[robillard]

I always thought the assassin classes a little over powered but this seems like overkill

 

[Arlone]

they will still be able to kite tanks (if lucky, if unlucky they get killed I spose) and kill casters with ease. Agree 100% with these changes ... always thought IP was out of place on assasins.

This change will in reality only change one thing - they can't miss a PA and still kill a main tank in a 1on1, atleast not if the tank got IP ready for use

yey!

..too bad this patch is +4 months away

 

[hrodelbert]

I've been killed by sb's when theyve had ip and fa2 and I've had neither, without them, there shouldnt be to much difficulty in killing them. the reduction of the max evade is good too, as it will mainly affect those using buffbots unless i am very much mistaken.

Nice to see there will be no fear from sbs again like the good old days before ip

 

[ImLestat]

Good for you that you chose the "right" realm Hrodelbert. We others still have to watch out for that incoming Dragonfang that probably most of the infils respecced to get (if they didn't have it before already). Although I feel that assassins in general are overpowered, once again Mythic chooses a way to nerf Hib and Mid more than Alb...

 

[hrodelbert]

I sympathise with you, dragonfang is very powerful, as well as being very easy to pull off. But having the level 50 thrust style unavailable to armsmen paladins and most of the fighters in the realm for that matter does you a big favour, where as most of the mid tanks can spec hammer and get bonus damage against me

 

[Gwendel]

This nerf on assassins only affects buffbot users really, ip should never have been given to any assassin, capping evade at 50% =good idea, considering they could have nerfed the dmg output etc, this merely balances proper infs, ie ones not pled and then asking what is creeping death or pa

look in general discussion for alot more views on this patch, though personally i think these changes are a very good idea and will balance alot of issues that have arisen from buffed assassins owning anything that moves

 

[Sarnat]

Yay go Mythic ;D

 

[old.Krusha]

evade capped at 50% only harms the buffbots... evade7+dodg2 = 41% and with high qui/dex you are near (if not over) the cap already .. tho you will benefit from higher str/con from buffs.. but the days of 60-70% evade rate from buffs will be over.. and the IP thing.. never intended to get it, sinec i had a gut feeling it was coming (get fa2 and mop3 for the same price )

Atleast they didnt destroy Dragonfang (which they never will )

 

[old.TeaSpoon]

Bah, all the complaints about Dragonfang are silly. Its uber, agreed, but our Pallys can't use it, niether can Armsman. Merc's can use it, but I've never met a thrust Merc, or a 50spec thrust Scout.

 

[Silent Shadow]

so they'll nerf us some, who cares

 

[Shike]

good changes overall imo, the healingstuff looks really good on paper at least.

And its nice that they nerf the buffbottingassassins out there and still manages to keep some balance in the classes.

Regarding dragonfang, errrm correct me if I am wrong here, but many classes but infs will still have IP and thus a card up the sleeve vs dragonfang. I agree its the uberstyle of all styles for evading albs but as said, we still have IP and they dont. SB's have that nasty 39LAstyle that does horrible damage and what do NS have? umm, DD's?

I seriosly hope that they take a good look over the styles at some point and make them equally good because Hibs have the shaft here, no doubt. Our styles eat more end in general and do less damage. Well well, it'll come some day I hope.

 

[old.Patrick-S]

you cant use ip if your stunned afaik ... and in 9 seconds you can do alot

 

[old.Hellskor]

Originally posted by Shike
Regarding dragonfang, errrm correct me if I am wrong here, but many classes but infs will still have IP and thus a card up the sleeve vs dragonfang. I agree its the uberstyle of all styles for evading albs but as said, we still have IP and they dont. SB's have that nasty 39LAstyle that does horrible damage and what do NS have? umm, DD's?

Well, it's not the damage per style, but the damage over time.
9sec stun is like 4 or 5 attacks for an Infil. In this time you can't use your IP.
And for Comeback/Frosty Gaze, either the CB or the FG is usually blocked/parried or whatever else. Even if you get it in, it's only 5-6secs.
For Nightshades, in the SB Teamleader report was mentioned that NS got a Stun-style that chains of an Evade aswell, not as long as DF, but still directly after Evading. Could be that it came with the last Patch since a couple of Styles got changed.
Maybe a Nightshade knows more about it ?

 

[Rasp]

For me Mythic have gone slightly overboard. I can pretty much remember all the changes to the rogue classes from playing the US version from beta 3.

Initially rogues had Evade III and their weapon spec was capped at half their level, i.e., at level 50 they could only have 25 in thrust/slash.

So what did Mythic do? They introduce a huge quantum jump in their effectiveness:

Evade 7
No restriction on weapon spec


The thing that compounded these changes to overpower rogues was the fixing of their poisons and the introduction of the See Hidden RA.

If Mythic had made small changes in incremental stages they would have arrived at the balance point without the need for a nerf.

I would say the evade nerf alone should stand and leave IP alone. If they are gonna remove IP they should just remove it from the game entirely. These relatively large changes only cause hassle later and leave a bad taste in the mouth of people who play these classes.

My tuppence.

 

[taromas]

What worries me is the effect this "these steps will make Assassins less effective in direct combat." nerf will have on PvE

I don't know about higher levels but at lvl 18 after I do my backstab combo I still have to melee the mob for 50% of its health.....

 

[old.Hellskor]

Originally posted by taromas
What worries me is the effect this "these steps will make Assassins less effective in direct combat." nerf will have on PvE

I don't know about higher levels but at lvl 18 after I do my backstab combo I still have to melee the mob for 50% of its health.....

Won't change anything for you. You're far off the Evade Cap, and I doubt anyone is anywhere close to be able to have IP at those lower levels

 

[erl]

For Nightshades, in the SB Teamleader report was mentioned that NS got a Stun-style that chains of an Evade aswell, not as long as DF, but still directly after Evading. Could be that it came with the last Patch since a couple of Styles got changed.

Diamondback, at 25 pierce. It's been there for a while, dunno how long but it's in game now. Medium duration stun chains off evade.

 

[Danya]

Diamondback has been in since at least 1.45 I think, it's not new.

 

[Jupitus]

<shrugs>

I'll manage.

 

[Happlo]

Diamondback is good and been in hib pierce at 25 for awhile. Stun seem's to be about 4-5 seconds so only half as good as Dragonfang but them we get it at half the spec lvl i guess!!

 

[Carnalito]

Horray!

NERF NERF NERF NERF ASSASINS

 

[krait]

Re: Horray!

Originally posted by Carnalito
NERF NERF NERF NERF ASSASINS

....and Skalds too.

 

[Sharma]

Nerf skalds yes!!!!!

stop teh DD mez, DD mez, DD mez

NERF SKALDS!!!!

 

[midmaster]

A pure tank with IP that gets had by an assassin, should delete it pronto and start a new one.

It is impossible to do if you know anything about Daoc.
Even without IP it RARELY happens that the Tanks bite's the grass.

Still, the main argument is "....assasins owns tanks..."

Yeah right....since when?

Since they (Mythic) don't give a rats ass about balance (except their balance sheets) you will never see them adress the REAL problem with assassins, namely buff-bots.

All they are doing right now is making sure that people will leave Daoc for other games. And frankly, I do hope they succeed in that quest. Because they are wrecking this once fine game.

 

[liste]

the evade balancing, is adressing just that.

Buff bots

 

[ulukin]

Half agree with the changes to assasins here but am totally bewildered at what they expect us (especially shadowblades) to spend our extra RSP's on, I mean infils get vanish, NS's get Viper and shadowblades get Shadowrun (oh joy!) Also I dont see what they hoped to achieve by still allowing archer classes to keep IP (what good is see hiden if its only real use is to allow us to see something we in reality have little hope of killing).

Big /cheer for the hunter though really pleased they got the boost they deserved.

 

[Dook_Pug]

Originally posted by ulukin
Also I dont see what they hoped to achieve by still allowing archer classes to keep IP (what good is see hiden if its only real use is to allow us to see something we in reality have little hope of killing).

Mythics view on Assasins is that they never meant for them to be solo gods, as far as I can tell this causes Assasins to have to GROUP and scout rather than run around all the while being next to invulnerable.

You see an Archer stealthed, you make their whereabouts known. It all adds to the big picture Mythic have of all classes being dependant on one another.

 

[Carnalito]

infils own me all the time

And DD mez DD mez DD mez doesnt work, its a timer on the mez,,,

And skald have been nerfed compared to toher tank classes, they get reduced RA costs we don't

 

[Meatballs]

Originally posted by ulukin
Half agree with the changes to assasins here but am totally bewildered at what they expect us (especially shadowblades) to spend our extra RSP's on, I mean infils get vanish, NS's get Viper and shadowblades get Shadowrun (oh joy!)

purge, see hidden, mop, dodger, dualist reflexes, toughness, aug con, aug str, long wind, tireless, avoidence of magic.