Fed up with africa

[Jupiter]

Love the way raven talks about things centuries apart, one minute he mentions celts for his arguement (circa 1500BC), then the romans (circa 100BC), the dark ages (circa 400AD) and then the renaissance (circa 1400AD) like what a load of bollox tbfh.

its like having Germany send in troops to the UK to "help" with the trouble you guys had with ireland back in the 80's early 90's and then refuse to leave.

bet u'd be REALLY peed off if that would have happened.

Wtf are u shit talking about now?

As i was eluding to already, the problems in Africa didnt happen over night and thats why i highlighted areas where "The Empire" has fucked up previously and now try wash their hands of.

For too many years the feel good factor for western civilisation of giving to charity has added to the problem. There is no simple solution and it will mean western civilastion taking their collective feet off the back of the heads of these countries.

 

[Roalith]

Just to throw a curveball in, anyone here seen "Blood Diamond"? Matt Damon's amusing attempt at a Zimbabwean accent aside, it's a very good film about the diamond trade in Africa. Quite an eye opener.

 

[eksdee]

The big problem with Affrica is breeding if you have aids and can not feed yourself and your oly source of water makes you sick why would you have 8 kids? The other problem is aid going to the wrong people the local war lord takes all the aid and sells it and either keeps the cash or buys more guns to trian child armys. I d not think running away is right but i hate the bleeding heart we owe it to them to help bollocks. Most people who say that would not say the same about Iraq.

hello, read a book, learn some FACTS about the situation.

i am actually stunned by the level of ignorance displayed in this thread. how can you people actually take yourselves seriously? i am making the assumption that most of you are in the 18-25 age bracket and in which case you should be old and wise enough to realise that if you don't know the facts about the subject, the speculation of wikipedia and tabloid newspapers do not make you an expert on the subject.

so many uninformed, sensationalist opinions it is untrue.

 

[Hawkwind]

Azurus, I totally agree with everything you wrote except:

Many of the current problems can be traced back to our actions at this time, such as the creation of artificial borders completely ignoring ethnic and tribal differences.

Your forgetting that many of these tribes are nomadic and cross the borders of several countries without hinderence as they have done for centuries. The Borders put in place mostly after WWII were the best compromise at the time and African tribal leaders were involved in the process. You kinda make it sound like we made the whole thing up as a joke to create problems and that simply is not true.

The violence in Kenya right now is purely politically motivated ethnic hatred. It's a power struggle between the two biggest political camps. It will be interesting to see the outcome of this weeks negotiations in Addis Ababa. Especially if, they start to question the political leaders who incited these mob killings.

I have many friends in Kenya and everyone I know there is very worried it could spiral out of control. In my opinion the UN should be in the Rift Valley now making sure no more schools, churches or villages are 'cleansed'.

 

[soze]

hello, read a book, learn some FACTS about the situation.

i am actually stunned by the level of ignorance displayed in this thread. how can you people actually take yourselves seriously? i am making the assumption that most of you are in the 18-25 age bracket and in which case you should be old and wise enough to realise that if you don't know the facts about the subject, the speculation of wikipedia and tabloid newspapers do not make you an expert on the subject.

so many uninformed, sensationalist opinions it is untrue.

Its not sensationalist whatever country you are in having a child when you cant fed your self is stupid having 6 more after the first is worse. When the parents know they have aids yet still have children it is also a bad idea.

 

[Vasconcelos]

Its not sensationalist whatever country you are in having a child when you cant fed your self is stupid having 6 more after the first is worse. When the parents know they have aids yet still have children it is also a bad idea.

Wheres the smiley with the agreeing nod?

 

[Zede]

Oh yes, and he spread the incomes throu the whole country, specialy the poors... He had the balls to kick out the corporations and turn 'em into national enterprises under the rule of posibly a relative (nepotism any1?) or a close friend. Not happy with that, he modifies the constitution whenever he wants, on whatever he desires, and is currently looking for a way to make his position as permament post..

Its just another african tyrant, with more "wits" and w/o the machete. I'm not trying to look imperialist, but kicking the only source of wealth and foreign money attraction off your country is not the paradigm of economy strategy. Specially when u replace it with a deficient management, corruption and posibily leading the industry to the ruin.

if your one of the top oil producers in the WORLD, quite frankly you can do what the hell you want. For a second, just read what you typed " kicking the only source of wealth and foreign money attraction off your country is not the paradigm of economy strategy " Im not even going there, suffice to say the wealth is in the ground, and thats in Venezuela, not the USA.

Sadly, another young poster with no clue at all. I can guarantee when you saw my reply, you scrambled round the net looking for something, anything to back you up. Chavez has his mate/family member in a position of power ? fuck me, did you ever hear of the "House of Lords" in the UK ? All you had to do in that situation was be born, next stupid comment please children, this is fun.

 

[Zede]

Its not sensationalist whatever country you are in having a child when you cant fed your self is stupid having 6 more after the first is worse. When the parents know they have aids yet still have children it is also a bad idea.

/sigh.

why the hell does nobody on here do ANY research ? Half of the posters on here are indeed thick are pig shit.


My paternal grandmother was the eldest of 7, my maternal grandad was the one of 8 - that was in the 20th century my friend, and in England. Go give yourself a history lesson or something, really cba explaining why ppl had lots of children.

 

[eksdee]

Its not sensationalist whatever country you are in having a child when you cant fed your self is stupid having 6 more after the first is worse. When the parents know they have aids yet still have children it is also a bad idea.

 

[Mojo]

/sigh.

Half of the posters on here are indeed thick are pig shit.

Oh the irony!

 

[Dukat]

The worst thing about threads like this is that everyone comes into this with the mindset that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

There seems to be a fair amount of hate towards the British on this matter, while neglecting to mention the fact that many other european powers were colonising like mad at the same time we were. This either points to people not knowing the fact, or just ignoring it and just spewing shite that sounds good. Either way there's no real excuse for it.

I dont think that many English people can say they dont feel even a tiny bit of guilt for what happened back in those days. However, we cant do anything to change what happened back there, and the fact that so many people donate to these charities - however ineffective - shows that we do actually care on some level.

The thing that makes me laugh is that if it was the "Big Bad Brits" being evil and the rest of europe being as holier-than-thou as they are sounding in this thread, why is it that there is no real clear disparity between the level of aid given out by Britian and the rest of europe? If I remember right it was the British prime minister that threatened to boycott a diplomatic session because of the involvement of a corrupt african dictator. Since when has the rest of europe done something like this?

What is happening in Africa is a real, crying shame. What can I do from here though? I could post the most eloquent peice of writing imaginable, but it would make no difference at all to whats going on over there.

I hate people acting like its our "pompous blitey take on it" when, for the most part, we're just responding to european prejudice against us which is for the most part unwarranted. Some Brits can be tossers, just the same as any other nationality, but when one Brit acts like a twat on here everyones up in arms as if we're to blame for every-single-problem in the world today.

How anyone can quote someone else and call thier opinion "uninformed" without being struck down by a lightning bolt from the heavens for such extreme irony and hypocracy I just dont know.

How many people here have spent years in these countries as aid workers ? How many people here have been present to witness the corruption? how many here have seen the nastiness that goes on? Ok, Now how many of those people have also been present at high-level government talks regarding these issues? Not many I'd guess.

Practically everyone here is going to have a slightly biased point of view and will, no doubt, have to draw thier knowledge from sources which cannot be verified as 100% correct. Whether this means taking information from the news, or from the papers, or from government reports. There is literally no way for anyone here to state that they are 100% certain thier beliefs are informed, correct and unbiased.

Now that this has been established its down to the degrees of seperation between people who are closer to the truth and those who are bullshitting.

I am English. I freely admit that I am biased in my opinions, I do try to curb this because at one point I went too far, but I as much as I try to be honest and unbiased I realise that this will always be the case. I think that mostly people here are similar to me, they have thier own biased opinions and are at varying levels very hard-headed about accepting someone else's point of view.

I just think things would probably work better if people would bear this in mind while posting - these threads always end up as people just saying the same things over and over again. I agree the "just add water" instant wiki-experts can be irritating, but for the most part people here are not like that. I'm going to take a leap here and say that I think that the average regular poster here isnt particularly stupid.

It might be worth remembering this in debates, calling someone stupid, uninformed or racist just because they do not agree with you does not mean thier point of view doesnt count, nor does it mean that thier information is inaccurate. It just makes you look childish. Using hard-facts to discount what people are saying and actually reading thier posts first is a far better way of showing that your points have merit.

[/rant off]

 

[Lethul]

The worst thing about threads like this is that everyone comes into this with the mindset that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

There seems to be a fair amount of hate towards the British on this matter, while neglecting to mention the fact that many other european powers were colonising like mad at the same time we were. This either points to people not knowing the fact, or just ignoring it and just spewing shite that sounds good. Either way there's no real excuse for it.

I dont think that many English people can say they dont feel even a tiny bit of guilt for what happened back in those days. However, we cant do anything to change what happened back there, and the fact that so many people donate to these charities - however ineffective - shows that we do actually care on some level.

The thing that makes me laugh is that if it was the "Big Bad Brits" being evil and the rest of europe being as holier-than-thou as they are sounding in this thread, why is it that there is no real clear disparity between the level of aid given out by Britian and the rest of europe? If I remember right it was the British prime minister that threatened to boycott a diplomatic session because of the involvement of a corrupt african dictator. Since when has the rest of europe done something like this?

What is happening in Africa is a real, crying shame. What can I do from here though? I could post the most eloquent peice of writing imaginable, but it would make no difference at all to whats going on over there.

I hate people acting like its our "pompous blitey take on it" when, for the most part, we're just responding to european prejudice against us which is for the most part unwarranted. Some Brits can be tossers, just the same as any other nationality, but when one Brit acts like a twat on here everyones up in arms as if we're to blame for every-single-problem in the world today.

How anyone can quote someone else and call thier opinion "uninformed" without being struck down by a lightning bolt from the heavens for such extreme irony and hypocracy I just dont know.

How many people here have spent years in these countries as aid workers ? How many people here have been present to witness the corruption? how many here have seen the nastiness that goes on? Ok, Now how many of those people have also been present at high-level government talks regarding these issues? Not many I'd guess.

Practically everyone here is going to have a slightly biased point of view and will, no doubt, have to draw thier knowledge from sources which cannot be verified as 100% correct. Whether this means taking information from the news, or from the papers, or from government reports. There is literally no way for anyone here to state that they are 100% certain thier beliefs are informed, correct and unbiased.

Now that this has been established its down to the degrees of seperation between people who are closer to the truth and those who are bullshitting.

I am English. I freely admit that I am biased in my opinions, I do try to curb this because at one point I went too far, but I as much as I try to be honest and unbiased I realise that this will always be the case. I think that mostly people here are similar to me, they have thier own biased opinions and are at varying levels very hard-headed about accepting someone else's point of view.

I just think things would probably work better if people would bear this in mind while posting - these threads always end up as people just saying the same things over and over again. I agree the "just add water" instant wiki-experts can be irritating, but for the most part people here are not like that. I'm going to take a leap here and say that I think that the average regular poster here isnt particularly stupid.

It might be worth remembering this in debates, calling someone stupid, uninformed or racist just because they do not agree with you does not mean thier point of view doesnt count, nor does it mean that thier information is inaccurate. It just makes you look childish. Using hard-facts to discount what people are saying and actually reading thier posts first is a far better way of showing that your points have merit.

[/rant off]

dude, you write way to long for people to be arsed to read in a forum war liket this!

ps: sweden > all

 

[Jupiter]

IThe thing that makes me laugh is that if it was the "Big Bad Brits" being evil and the rest of europe being as holier-than-thou as they are sounding in this thread, why is it that there is no real clear disparity between the level of aid given out by Britian and the rest of europe? If I remember right it was the British prime minister that threatened to boycott a diplomatic session because of the involvement of a corrupt african dictator. Since when has the rest of europe done something like this?

[/rant off]

I remember not too long ago a French President and a German Chancellor were opposed to an invasion in Iraq and european involvement... yeah ur Prime Mininster listened then huh.......

A little set of islands off the coast of Argentina called the Maldives wtf was that about?

A rock off the coast of Ireland called Rockall wtf is that about???

 

[Lethul]

Just to throw a curveball in, anyone here seen "Blood Diamond"? Matt Damon's amusing attempt at a Zimbabwean accent aside, it's a very good film about the diamond trade in Africa. Quite an eye opener.

I have, have you? Matt Damon?

i got nothing on the topic

 

[Lethul]

I remember not too long ago a French President and a German Chancellor were opposed to an invasion in Iraq and european involvement... yeah ur Prime Mininster listened then huh.......

A little set of islands off the coast of Argentina called the Maldives wtf was that about?

A rock off the coast of Ireland called Rockall wtf is that about???

Falklands?

 

[Zede]

Oh the irony!

quote more than 2 sentances in a thread and i might take you seriously

 

[Jupiter]

Falklands?

Forgive my spelling, me bad

 

[Hawkwind]

I remember not too long ago a French President and a German Chancellor were opposed to an invasion in Iraq and european involvement... yeah ur Prime Mininster listened then huh.......

A little set of islands off the coast of Argentina called the Maldives wtf was that about?

A rock off the coast of Ireland called Rockall wtf is that about???

FYI Falklands - insignificant little colony that has been in British hands for over 100 years, as such under International Law it is ours! It also had very favourable geological oil surveys completed prior to the invasion.

The Oil fields close to the Falklands could be some of the biggest ever found. But like most deep sea oil fields it costs alot to bring it up and they have been waiting for oil prices to rise and stabalise. Guess they may start drilling soon.

 

[Vasconcelos]

if your one of the top oil producers in the WORLD, quite frankly you can do what the hell you want. For a second, just read what you typed " kicking the only source of wealth and foreign money attraction off your country is not the paradigm of economy strategy " Im not even going there, suffice to say the wealth is in the ground, and thats in Venezuela, not the USA.

Sadly, another young poster with no clue at all. I can guarantee when you saw my reply, you scrambled round the net looking for something, anything to back you up. Chavez has his mate/family member in a position of power ? fuck me, did you ever hear of the "House of Lords" in the UK ? All you had to do in that situation was be born, next stupid comment please children, this is fun.

Yet, it didnt stop you from categorizing sum1 from just a reply, and you couldnt be more wrong here. Assuming that my reply was a kindly non aggresive one, and your main counterargument here was calling me a "young poster with no clue" I'm think im done arguing with you after this one.
As for the no clue at all... well i prolly know more about Chavez and latinamerican countries economies than you do, who, reading your comments, i bet is just another "wannabe anti-system" (see? i can patronize too ).
Not going further into the whole Chavez argument with you cuz it could be like arguing with a wall.

PS: when i said the only source of wealth, i was talking about corporations in general, not just the well known oil giant. And as for Venezuela having its wealth on their soil, well that doesnt make them anything different from the black africa countries. The problem remains, funds into the wrong hands.

Have a good one

 

[Jupiter]

FYI Falklands - insignificant little colony that has been in British hands for over 100 years, as such under International Law it is ours! It also had very favourable geological oil surveys completed prior to the invasion.

The Oil fields close to the Falklands could be some of the biggest ever found. But like most deep sea oil fields it costs alot to bring it up and they have been waiting for oil prices to rise and stabalise. Guess they may start drilling soon.

quod erat demonstrandum

 

[Mojo]

A little set of islands off the coast of Argentina called the Maldives wtf was that about?

lmfao....go get a map!

 

[Jupiter]

lmfao....go get a map!

so what i spelt it wrong, u gonna tell me its off the coast of cornwall now or what?

 

[Dukat]

I remember not too long ago a French President and a German Chancellor were opposed to an invasion in Iraq and european involvement... yeah ur Prime Mininster listened then huh.......

You're talking about the Middle East there, I was refering to Africa. I'm not going to go into a debate about the Middle East in this thread. Suffice to say that you're taking what I said out of context.

 

[Jupiter]

You're talking about the Middle East there, I was refering to Africa. I'm not going to go into a debate about the Middle East in this thread. Suffice to say that you're taking what I said out of context.

Not really just showing u how flawed ur arguement is regards UK & American foreign policy. It has nothing to do with humanity just greed

 

[Dukat]

Not really just showing u how flawed ur arguement is regards UK & American foreign policy. It has nothing to do with humanity just greed

I disagree.

If that was true why would the British prime minister boycott talks with another world power based on thier treatment of the population?

Saying it has nothing to do with whats good for humanity is, in my opinion, a gross exaggeration. Our foriegn policy isnt something I completely understand, however I realise that the reason for our involvement in places like Sierra Lione & Kosovo, and our theats of a boycott of the AU meeeting due to the presence of an Africa Dictator are not motivated by greed so much as for stability.

I'm not saying we are Angels nor our foriegn policy Holy Scripture, but I do believe that we are motivated to do the right thing where it is morally, financially and diplomaticly viable.

I take it you think we're in it for as much as we can get, and fuck everyone and everything else then?

 

[Mojo]

so what i spelt it wrong, u gonna tell me its off the coast of cornwall now or what?

You didn't spell it wrong the Maldives are a completely different set of islands pretty much on the other side of the planet than the Falklands. Right spelling completely wrong islands though.

 

[Mojo]

quote more than 2 sentances in a thread and i might take you seriously

You taking me seriously would really make my week.

 

[soze]

/sigh.
My paternal grandmother was the eldest of 7, my maternal grandad was the one of 8 - that was in the 20th century my friend, and in England. Go give yourself a history lesson or something, really cba explaining why ppl had lots of children.

/sigh

How many of your grandmothers brothers and sisters could not even have a drink of water without getting aids how many could not eat for weeks on end? Different situation entirely.

Someone with healthy children can have as many as they like but when you see your first child can not eat or drink not doing anything to stop having another is stupid and in that environment cruel. Lets not pretend the people of Africa are to stupid to know dick goes in kid comes out.

 

[Jupiter]

however I realise that the reason for our involvement in places like Sierra Lione & Kosovo, and our theats of a boycott of the AU meeeting due to the presence of an Africa Dictator are not motivated by greed so much as for stability.

Why did it take so long to react to Kosovo?
Why was it a Nato force?
What happened after? Were things better, well aside from the near genocide probably yes if u take the George Bush slant on things..

Million and yes i use the word millions died, starved, emigrated, deported & throw off their land under the authority of "the empire" and you wonder why things are so fucked up in these countries now? And yeah u can include the Dutch, French, Portoguese & Spanish as well but if u put them all in a table and list the countires underneath each that has had problems its embarrasing tbh

 

[Dukat]

/sigh

How many of your grandmothers brothers and sisters could not even have a drink of water without getting aids how many could not eat for weeks on end? Different situation entirely.

Someone with healthy children can have as many as they like but when you see your first child can not eat or drink not doing anything to stop having another is stupid and in that environment cruel. Lets not pretend the people of Africa are to stupid to know dick goes in kid comes out.

Agreed. My parents were both from very large families. The thing is, my parents were both brought up in households that could feed everyone, they lived comfortably.

Just because my parents came from big families means that I think that what soze is saying is against big families in general, as its obvious hes talking about having too many mouths to feed, and how it is selfish for parents in africa to have children that they have no way of feeding.

Are you deliberately missing the point here Zede?