Fed up with africa

[Castus]

Oh Christ don`t start Raven off on another ethnic rant. Hes only just been allowed away from his farm in Northampton and is shocked by the Somalian invasion ! Run Raven they eat small children , sell drugs , have big willies , dance really well , run faster ..... oh and they are here to steal your job , council house , vote , dole and anyother benefit you can think of.....

 

[Zede]

Oh Christ don`t start Raven off on another ethnic rant. Hes only just been allowed away from his farm in Northampton and is shocked by the Somalian invasion ! Run Raven they eat small children , sell drugs , have big willies , dance really well , run faster ..... oh and they are here to steal your job , council house , vote , dole and anyother benefit you can think of.....

rofl, eloquently put - my base expression calling him a " noob" just didnt cover it.

 

[Raven]

The celts of Europe had maps of Africa & India... ? id absolutely love to see such a map, please link just one.

very little papyrus or paper exits from that far back, the celt didn't even write it down. You may not be aware though (seeing as you seem pretty dim ) but white people don't just come from the UK. There is plenty of evidance to suggest there was trade with Africa going back well over Two thousand years from the Greeks to the Romans to the Gauls Celts, people got around much more than you would think. There is evidence of "celt" graves in southern China

Anyway, it doesn't really matter what i link as you are just trolling

 

[Raven]

Oh Christ don`t start Raven off on another ethnic rant. Hes only just been allowed away from his farm in Northampton and is shocked by the Somalian invasion ! Run Raven they eat small children , sell drugs , have big willies , dance really well , run faster ..... oh and they are here to steal your job , council house , vote , dole and anyother benefit you can think of.....

Clearly I am a racialist?!?!?!?!
I have a job, I don't live in a council house and have never been on the dole in my life failed

Typical spineless lefty comment, try to insult someone who has a different opinion from the hug everyone to make things better approach

 

[Raven]

Yeah i guess thats why Lake Victoria was 1st discovered in 1858. Oh and i suppose the Chinese & India trade never existed before Marco Polo ever learned to walk. At least read up on the subject before u give ur pompous blitey take on it!

No, Marco Polo re-discovered it after the dark ages. At least read up on the subject before giving us your misinformed euroteen take on it.


lake Victoria wasn't discovered in 1858, it was thought to be the source of the Nile and was then named, it was known about for a long time, there was just no real point going there.

 

[eksdee]

Oh Christ don`t start Raven off on another ethnic rant. Hes only just been allowed away from his farm in Northampton and is shocked by the Somalian invasion ! Run Raven they eat small children , sell drugs , have big willies , dance really well , run faster ..... oh and they are here to steal your job , council house , vote , dole and anyother benefit you can think of.....

this made me giggle.

the amount of plain ignorance displayed (on both sides of the argument, frankly) is shocking.

seems some people need to crawl out from their middle class suburbia once in a while and read some books/watch the news/read a non-tabloid newspaper!

 

[Raven]

I am not middle class either

 

[Jeremiah]

I've been to Kenya! (In Mombasa).

On the one hand, its terrifying when dealing with any government-related office or authority as corruption really has passed down to the lowest position. The guy who was the "customs" officer gave us more than one hint that if we bribed him, it would go so much faster.

But after spending time with the ordinary people, I can say they are the most friendly people I have ever met. They are hugely appreciative of any help or support, happy to share anything they have. The culture is a little lazy orientated, but their workers are just hardcore. We worked along side builders that worked a 12 hr working day in 35C temperatures, with only a 15 min break.

If you are scared your donations never reach the people who need it, spend your donations on a plane ticket and go volunteer. Its a win/win situation. You help improve their quality of life, while they change yours forever.

 

[Chronictank]

The point is that even if there was no interaction whatsoever they would still be killing each other. Kenya was doing well and a prime example to the rest of the African countries, all until the age old problems raised their head.

Sorry but what exactly do you base this on?

Asia was the leader in science and technology before foreign influence, and look at it now.
You cant possibly summarise that they would be at each others throats because you cant know what it would be like if they weren't in the worst form of poverty.
I completely agree aid should be cut, yes alot of people would die but humans have a way of surviving, and no doubt they will when they realise there are no more hand outs.
I am not saying their situation is not horrible it is, but quite frankly we arent helping at all by sending all those aid packages, why work when you can sit in a camp and be fed, clothed and given free medical treatment for sitting on your arse all day? seriously what is the motivation to do something then its all handed to you on a plate
it's like putting a plaster on a wound which keeps opening up because there is a piece of shrapnel in it, you need to stop bandaging it and take the problem out before it heals.
In this case the rich/poor divide is the problem, and if people have no comfort blanket to hang onto they will do something about it, if not for a better life they will do it out of desperation.

i refuse to give money to any charity now tbh soon as i found out how much the directors get paid, for example Marsha Evans the CEO of the red cross gets paid $651,957 (FY ending 06/30/03)+ performance releated bonuses and expences, (Forbes.com: Forbes Charities 2004), the Mayo Clinic head Denise Cortesa gets a salary of $752,969 i could go on but you get the idea

Which is absolutely disgusting, nowdays i just go do something if i feel the inclination to give to charity or just give it to some local group

 

[Raven]

I agree, the people that are causing the problems should be removed, the west won't do anything because it suits the governments to do nothing, there are no resources that aren't already controlled. This would not stop the racial and tribal hatred though (imo) the only people that can stop that is the "natives" (which I saw in the news they are attempting to take steps toward in Kenya)

Anyway, I still don't think the problems can be blamed on the empire, its a crappy excuse for people to not find and cure the real problems.

 

[Zede]

very little papyrus or paper exits from that far back, the celt didn't even write it down. You may not be aware though (seeing as you seem pretty dim ) but white people don't just come from the UK. There is plenty of evidance to suggest there was trade with Africa going back well over Two thousand years from the Greeks to the Romans to the Gauls Celts, people got around much more than you would think. There is evidence of "celt" graves in southern China

Anyway, it doesn't really matter what i link as you are just trolling

My inital point was, you seemed think some mythical race of people existed in a pre-roman Europe ( lets say from pre 500bc) that traded with India & Africa, and indeed made maps showing this. It quite simply is not the case. I think you have your timescales just mixed up, everything you said did happen - your just out by about a 1000 years.

 

[ilaya]

ow - wrong thread but the OP (Ilaya) is the Sun's equliviant of Joor. execpt alot more narrowminded

how DARE you call me narrowminded, fuckhead.

oh and btw.. its EQUIVALENT.. even Sun readers can spell that.

 

[Raven]

There are beads and stuff found in the UK dating back to before that are from Africa, trade was done (not direct) from Africa to Southern Europe to Northern Europe to the UK. SO much old knowledge was lost when the Roman empire collapsed, not just trade but medical knowledge, astral knowledge etc. Pre-Roman people weren't as isolated or as simple as people think. There probably wasn't a big map with everything on it like we would see today but people had maps with Africa on it. The point I am making is Aficans have seen white men for thousands of years so the "we took advantage of them thinking we were gods" is just retarded, it just didn't happen like that. likewise there were black legionaries in the Roman army as far north as Hadrian's wall.

 

[Zede]

No, Marco Polo re-discovered it after the dark ages. At least read up on the subject before giving us your misinformed euroteen take on it.


lake Victoria wasn't discovered in 1858, it was thought to be the source of the Nile and was then named, it was known about for a long time, there was just no real point going there.

yee gods !

pot, kettle , black etc...

The last time I had this much fun with you was on the RvR forums, I got 5 rep for revealing your ineptness then, i believe the coloquialism is wtfpwned. sorry, yes i am now trolling, spent to much time with guilded with Gamah.

 

[Zede]

There are beads and stuff found in the UK dating back to before that are from Africa, trade was done (not direct) from Africa to Southern Europe to Northern Europe to the UK. SO much old knowledge was lost when the Roman empire collapsed, not just trade but medical knowledge, astral knowledge etc. Pre-Roman people weren't as isolated or as simple as people think. There probably wasn't a big map with everything on it like we would see today but people had maps with Africa on it. The point I am making is Aficans have seen white men for thousands of years so the "we took advantage of them thinking we were gods" is just retarded, it just didn't happen like that. likewise there were black legionaries in the Roman army as far north as Hadrian's wall.

those straws are just about in clutching range ! Oh and just to point our one big mistake in this bit, the Romans destroyed all the "old knowledge" as they ransacked Europe & the rest. The Library of Alexandria i think it was - millions and millions of scrolls was used as fuel to power the baths of ancient rome. Nice try, no cookie. Oh and try looking up Angelsey & the Celts for how they dealt with the last remaining ancient celtic knowledge.

 

[Raven]

Yes they did, well done. but they also used a lot of it which was lost in the dark ages, do you even know what the renaissance was? (aside from the fancy paintings that is)

 

[Raven]

Edit timer

It wasn't "the last Celtic knowledge" it was the last home of the druids, there were still places in Ireland that weren't destroyed like Anglesey. The romans may well have destroyed a lot of knowledge (especially at cathage and northern Africa/The meditaranian) but they also used a lot of it, mortar and building techniques, medicine, strategy, astrology and politics. To say they destroyed it all is just stupid. The assimilated the culture, which is partly how they were so successful. Celtic knowledge or culture was far from wiped out.

Anyway, you seem to be unable to respond without attempting to flame so go nuts

 

[Poon]

Far too many chavs fighting it out over Wikipedia gained knowledge this thread. That’s the problem with the internet it makes every c*nt an instant expert on everything.

I went to Kenya when I was in the army, a fantastic place to see but a brutal place to live, people who live in developed countries on the whole can’t imagine what it would be like living in these kind of places and the thought of them offering up advice to the natives makes me die a little inside.

Although I would like to see some people on this forum offer up their advice face to face to these people, I think that's the only time I’d consider their use of machetes on their fellow man justified as they try and drag their fat pale overfed body’s out of the way of the only danger they have ever faced in their lives in the form of the angry “lazy Africans”

 

[Chronictank]

Far too many chavs fighting it out over Wikipedia gained knowledge this thread. That’s the problem with the internet it makes every c*nt an instant expert on everything.

I went to Kenya when I was in the army, a fantastic place to see but a brutal place to live, people who live in developed countries on the whole can’t imagine what it would be like living in these kind of places and the thought of them offering up advice to the natives makes me die a little inside.

Although I would like to see some people on this forum offer up their advice face to face to these people, I think that's the only time I’d consider their use of machetes on their fellow man justified as they try and drag their fat pale overfed body’s out of the way of the only danger they have ever faced in their lives in the form of the angry “lazy Africans”

Yes, like seeing a few (on the grand scale of things) people live in squalor puts you in any better situation to offer up opinions
Get off your self righteous high horse

The fact of the matter is pumping money into a bottomless pit known as Africa isn't working now, nor is it ever going to work
The problem is INSIDE africa, seeing as you have been there how many people are moving out of aid camps?
Looking at the numbers on various charity sites it cant be many as they are growing exponentially which means the problem is getting worse not better

You going there has not made the place better, sorry to be brutally honest but dont fool yourself into thinking it has.
It may have made a difference to a few (again relatively) people for a short time, good for them, but again short term fix for a long term problem like almost every other initiative going on there

if the country was improving then the numbers rushing to aid camps wouldnt keep rising at an ever increasing rate, proverty wouldnt be growing at a ever increasing rate and the stability in the region has gone through the floor and keeps going

They may not have a choice, but the way things are going they never will
Why would you want to work when you could get shot and maimed just doing your job? why would you stick your neck out if you can live in relative saftey in a refugee camp?

And beside the point in hand, you know nothing about the vast majority of people who post here
I do charity work when i can afford the time (and being honest when i can be bothered), when the earthquake happened in pakistan i helped go clear up the mess, i occasionally volunteer in soup kitchens when the mood hits me.
I do it in my own time, i am not paid to do it (incidently i had to pay to go pakistan), does that make my opinion more valid than yours?

 

[Ctuchik]

We send troops, aid and diplomats out to these countries to try to solve problems,

sure, but for who's benefit? ours or theirs?

tbh i would probably not be to far off when i say that in 80% of the cases where we send "help" and stuff to make an area stable its because WE* need/want something from there that we cant have unless that area is stable.

and in the end it really didnt get all that much better once we have gotten whatever it was we were after. because then all of a sudden we* dont really give a flying fuck anymore.

*read goverment

we are very VERY good at "helping" contries that have things we need, like oil or diamonds/gold or what not. but as soon as we HAVE that we tend to kinda forget about all the problems we promised to help fix. or do as little as we possibly can get away with without getting accused for it.

more often then not i think most of the developing countries would do alot better without us there to fuck things up even more.

as soon as we start to send in "peace keeping forces" we just know things will turn from almost bad to a total catastrophy(sp?).

mostly because that NOONE like to see their country occupied, and according to the UN resolution, its every man and womans RIGHT to fight a occupying force, and thats usually what ppl down there do, and then we call them terrorists and send in even more troops that only makes things worse. wich in turn means that we have to send in even MORE aid packages and stuff..

see where i'm getting at?

its like having Germany send in troops to the UK to "help" with the trouble you guys had with ireland back in the 80's early 90's and then refuse to leave.

bet u'd be REALLY peed off if that would have happened.

granted you would have been strong enough to stop them but there isnt a country down in the african region that is, so we can do pretty much whatever the fuck we want down there, and we do. and many times not for the best of the country were occupying.

all we do is cover for our own interests down there. not theirs.

 

[Zede]

Far too many chavs fighting it out over Wikipedia gained knowledge this thread. That’s the problem with the internet it makes every c*nt an instant expert on everything.

I went to Kenya when I was in the army, a fantastic place to see but a brutal place to live, people who live in developed countries on the whole can’t imagine what it would be like living in these kind of places and the thought of them offering up advice to the natives makes me die a little inside.

Although I would like to see some people on this forum offer up their advice face to face to these people, I think that's the only time I’d consider their use of machetes on their fellow man justified as they try and drag their fat pale overfed body’s out of the way of the only danger they have ever faced in their lives in the form of the angry “lazy Africans”

Or, people like to comment on topics that interest them. Indeed some actually have "books", freakier still some even have bookshelves, filled with said books !

On a more on topical note - foreign companies own/run african resources, and siphon all the money out of africa, tis the same across the world you know. Only Hugo Chavez has had the balls to kick out the corporations. Be great if Nigeria could, but they are to far gone up the wests ass to do anything now.

 

[Zede]

Edit timer

It wasn't "the last Celtic knowledge" it was the last home of the druids, there were still places in Ireland that weren't destroyed like Anglesey. The romans may well have destroyed a lot of knowledge (especially at cathage and northern Africa/The meditaranian) but they also used a lot of it, mortar and building techniques, medicine, strategy, astrology and politics. To say they destroyed it all is just stupid. The assimilated the culture, which is partly how they were so successful. Celtic knowledge or culture was far from wiped out.

Anyway, you seem to be unable to respond without attempting to flame so go nuts

but but..you leave such gaping holes in your arguments, its hard not to try and fill them.

ps. it was the greeks ,egyptians, persians they emulated and got the knowledge off, not the celts, wrong again !

 

[dub]

some development programs work , some dont , cant phrase it as simple as in the OP and claim its all wasted money , not a good starting point for a reasoned discussion on a very large and difficult subject.

interesting points is to figure out why some of em work so we can emulate that approach on different problems , and become better at identifying regional problems when implementing them , not who killed who in antediluvian times.

i dont like the guiltmongering commercials , but thats just the marketing guys doing what they perceive their job to be

 

[Poon]

Yes, like seeing a few (on the grand scale of things) people live in squalor puts you in any better situation to offer up opinions
Get off your self righteous high horse

The fact of the matter is pumping money into a bottomless pit known as Africa isn't working now, nor is it ever going to work
The problem is INSIDE africa, seeing as you have been there how many people are moving out of aid camps?
Looking at the numbers on various charity sites it cant be many as they are growing exponentially which means the problem is getting worse not better

You going there has not made the place better, sorry to be brutally honest but dont fool yourself into thinking it has.
It may have made a difference to a few (again relatively) people for a short time, good for them, but again short term fix for a long term problem like almost every other initiative going on there

if the country was improving then the numbers rushing to aid camps wouldnt keep rising at an ever increasing rate, proverty wouldnt be growing at a ever increasing rate and the stability in the region has gone through the floor and keeps going

They may not have a choice, but the way things are going they never will
Why would you want to work when you could get shot and maimed just doing your job? why would you stick your neck out if you can live in relative saftey in a refugee camp?

And beside the point in hand, you know nothing about the vast majority of people who post here
I do charity work when i can afford the time (and being honest when i can be bothered), when the earthquake happened in pakistan i helped go clear up the mess, i occasionally volunteer in soup kitchens when the mood hits me.
I do it in my own time, i am not paid to do it (incidently i had to pay to go pakistan), does that make my opinion more valid than yours?

I didn’t actually make any opinion on the situation.

I'm just adverse to people sitting in a chair and making judgements on people less well off then themselves, the "lazy Africans" opinion has been all the rage in the UK for a long time and it did leave a lasting legacy on the world we live in today.

As for your other points.

Would I have gone if I wasn’t being paid for it? No
Did I drastically improve anything while I was there? No I've done peacekeeping duties in 3 countrys and i feel that none of it made any real difference and much of it was focused around helping governments rather then people
Are you a better person for funding your own trip? Well I suppose it does, helping your fellow man is a worthy past time,

But anyway I’ll leave everyone to get on moaning about them spear chucking darkies making a mess of their own house, they don’t like it up em as my granddad said to me to my disgust before I left ^^

 

[Poon]

You going there has not made the place better, sorry to be brutally honest but dont fool yourself into thinking it has.

And don’t worry about being brutally honest, I'm unlikely to be offended over a forum.

 

[tierk]

Threads like this just seem to bring out the really moronic people on FH. Funny part is that they cannot even begin to see that some of the shit, that they call views, are highly offensive.

 

[Raven]

but but..you leave such gaping holes in your arguments, its hard not to try and fill them.

ps. it was the greeks ,egyptians, persians they emulated and got the knowledge off, not the celts, wrong again !

yes, like i said "(especially at cathage and northern Africa/The meditaranian) "stop trying to desperately to find something to pick at, you failed

 

[soze]

The big problem with Affrica is breeding if you have aids and can not feed yourself and your oly source of water makes you sick why would you have 8 kids? The other problem is aid going to the wrong people the local war lord takes all the aid and sells it and either keeps the cash or buys more guns to trian child armys. I d not think running away is right but i hate the bleeding heart we owe it to them to help bollocks. Most people who say that would not say the same about Iraq.

 

[Castus]

The big problem with Affrica is breeding if you have aids and can not feed yourself and your oly source of water makes you sick why would you have 8 kids? The other problem is aid going to the wrong people the local war lord takes all the aid and sells it and either keeps the cash or buys more guns to trian child armys. I d not think running away is right but i hate the bleeding heart we owe it to them to help bollocks. Most people who say that would not say the same about Iraq.

The TVs crap over there .

 

[Vasconcelos]

On a more on topical note - foreign companies own/run african resources, and siphon all the money out of africa, tis the same across the world you know. Only Hugo Chavez has had the balls to kick out the corporations. Be great if Nigeria could, but they are to far gone up the wests ass to do anything now.

Oh yes, and he spread the incomes throu the whole country, specialy the poors... He had the balls to kick out the corporations and turn 'em into national enterprises under the rule of posibly a relative (nepotism any1?) or a close friend. Not happy with that, he modifies the constitution whenever he wants, on whatever he desires, and is currently looking for a way to make his position as permament post..

Its just another african tyrant, with more "wits" and w/o the machete. I'm not trying to look imperialist, but kicking the only source of wealth and foreign money attraction off your country is not the paradigm of economy strategy. Specially when u replace it with a deficient management, corruption and posibily leading the industry to the ruin.