Fed up with africa

[cHodAX]

Having been to Africa I can honestly say that I think the place is a lost cause, the locals only plan short-term and as long as thier bellies are full today they aren't really worried about next year. That kind of ambivalence is what allows corrupt leaders to come to power in the first place. It keeps happening year after year, country after country, decade after decade. This might sound extreme but in some ways they would have been better off staying as colonies. At least they would have had infrastructure and manufacturing built which could have given them a proper economy instead of having to dependant on tourism and agricultre. Or handouts from the former colonial powers.

 

[Mojo]

I think azurus said it pretty well.


But dont get me wrong. I am deeply sorry that you have to watch starving children when you're enjoying your TV programme. Life just isn't fair sometimes.

That wasn't really the issue, he wasn't complaining about the appeals as such but rather they KEEP appealing yet fuck all changes and the men in power ultimately get control of the aid the food the money and buy Guns.

And I agree it gets tiresome.

 

[Zede]

read my sig, in this day and age it truly isnt africas fault.

 

[Ctuchik]

Exactly! Thank you.

All they do is think, shit were not getting any money from the government, lets make a gang and rebel.

and what do you propose they do when EVERYONE that have even the slightest bit of power, only look after hemself, stealing most, if not all of the aid the country recieves etc etc.



geez, theres so much enlightened bullshit in this thread i can sunbathe in it..... uke:

 

[Sharma]

Again, it'd be nice if that happens but the major powers of the world are concerned about 2 things.

Money & Power and if holding countries back that in future may be considered a threat then thats how they'll do it and they're quite happy to be ignorant of what the African leaders are doing.

Ignorance is bliss and it's a well indulged pleasure regardless of if you like it or not.

The place won't go anywhere as said, because the leaders are more concerned with their shower water temp rather than the little 4 year old kid dying of aids and malnutrition.

 

[Roalith]

TIA motherfuckers!

 

[Jupiter]

It took modern civilisation thousands of years to evolve from a hunter/gatherer to where we are now. We expect these counties to make this leap in a few years. Many of these people first thought white men were gods and guns were a divine weapon. Empires were solely for the benefit of those in power and stripped countries of what they could be it people, natural resources and money and we now expect them to be different, because its just not cricket. With the introduction of mainstream religion it added to the fire.

BTW open ur door and show me where modern society is any better with the amount of rapes, murders, assaults & general scum bags increasing. We have evolved to the extent where we dont give a shit about what happens outside our own hall door........ long live apathy!

 

[Dukat]

It took modern civilisation thousands of years to evolve from a hunter/gatherer to where we are now. We expect these counties to make this leap in a few years. Many of these people first thought white men were gods and guns were a divine weapon. Empires were solely for the benefit of those in power and stripped countries of what they could be it people, natural resources and money and we now expect them to be different, because its just not cricket. With the introduction of mainstream religion it added to the fire.

You make it sound very neat and tidy. Very clear cut. If its all so simple what is your solution?

BTW open ur door and show me where modern society is any better with the amount of rapes, murders, assaults & general scum bags increasing. We have evolved to the extent where we dont give a shit about what happens outside our own hall door........ long live apathy!

WHAT?!

We have an infrastructure in place that works for the majority of people. Murderers and rapists are punished where possible, they arent actually all increasing - the figures fluctuate quite a bit but crime levels do go down as well as up you know. Again, you make everything sound very neat and tidy. It just isnt like this.

Who has "evolved to the extent where we dont give a shit about what happens outside our own hall door" ? We send troops, aid and diplomats out to these countries to try to solve problems, we perhaps dont do anywhere near enough, but we are far from apathetic.

You are talking as if everything is very simple, if this is true why not start talking about solutions? You talk of blame and fault, as if one person or group of people is responsible for everything, and blaming them will solve the problem.

I guess I just dont see how re-iterating all of this helps at all.

 

[Himse]

and what do you propose they do when EVERYONE that have even the slightest bit of power, only look after hemself, stealing most, if not all of the aid the country recieves etc etc.



geez, theres so much enlightened bullshit in this thread i can sunbathe in it..... uke:

They are, but they'd be less likely to be greedy if they didn't keep getting shot at everytime they walked outside.

 

[Ezteq]

theres a chap i used to work with, he was really nice and from kenya and he wrote a really good article for the local newspaper saying how kenya actually was one of the better (if not the best) examples of african democracy and a lovely place until the corruption took over and all of a sudden the crust of democracy broke and all hell broke loose (though he put it more elequantly).

I do think its a shame that places like africa cant get their act together and put an end to corruption because tbh they'd make a fortune from the tourest industry if it was safe to go there.

And while i do feel for the innocent people who are suffering i do not agree with sending aid there because it gets sucked up by the corrupt officials or rebels buying guns and killing everyone. And besides we have so much going wrong within the uk i think we should get our own house in order (sort out national debt etc) before we go giving large sums of money away to other countries, I dont go with the belief that because we once ruled them we are responsible for them, we were told to bugger off and let them be in charge of themselves, in my mind this means they are responsible for everything its either we step in and take charge or we stay the hell out and let them fend for themselves.

you cant be semi independant in these matters because then you are removing responsibility and accountability from that country, they need to learn to be responsible for themselves. and tbh how long can the arguement about this kind of thing go on, its like the americans whos great great great great grandad was a slave and they seek compensation, i dont know wtf happened to my g>g>g>g>great grandfather but i dont see how his treatment ettects me in the slightest.

 

[Raven]

It took modern civilisation thousands of years to evolve from a hunter/gatherer to where we are now. We expect these counties to make this leap in a few years. Many of these people first thought white men were gods and guns were a divine weapon. Empires were solely for the benefit of those in power and stripped countries of what they could be it people, natural resources and money and we now expect them to be different, because its just not cricket. With the introduction of mainstream religion it added to the fire.

What kind of messed up reality do you live in? People knew Africa/India etc was there since long before roman times, indeed there was pretty open trade with most of them. You are correct in what you say if you relate it to South America and the conquistadors or North America, though that started off peaceful when the first British people landed there, it was only later when it was a mixed bag of settlers that it turned ugly.

 

[Raven]

Also being an ex member of the empire doesn't = being a backward violent scum hole. Look at Australia or NZ, either I would rather live in than the UK atm.

 

[Huntingtons]

ON WITH THE TINFOIL HATS!!!!!1!11

ow - wrong thread but the OP (Ilaya) is the Sun's equliviant of Joor. execpt alot more narrowminded

This might sound extreme but in some ways they would have been better off staying as colonies.

dont you then think it would have been better if africa had been left completly alone by the white?

 

[Azurus]

Also being an ex member of the empire doesn't = being a backward violent scum hole. Look at Australia or NZ, either I would rather live in than the UK atm.

Look at the examples you just used. The two main colonies where the white settler population asserted and retained total dominance. If we look it from their perspective then yes it is a triumph of imperialism, if you look at it from the view of the indigenous populations it has been a disaster.

 

[Zede]

Problem in Africa and in countries of Latinamerica (like Venezuela e.g) is that the funds are in the wrong hands, either on plain tyrants (Last King of Scotland any1?) or dictators with a false mask of pseudo-democracy.
And the worst thing of all is that theres no population to raise against them, after all, they didnt have a bourgeoisie (spell?) revolution like in Europe 2 centuries ago.

Dont know whats more stupid, this post of the people agreeing with it !

Hugo Chavez of Venezuela is the antithesis of the point your making, gratz on your research.

 

[Raven]

dont you then think it would have been better if africa had been left completly alone by the white?

It would be much the same as it is today, except rather than guns and machetes it would be speaks and arrows, the violence has been in Africa since long before white people turned up.

 

[Zede]

What kind of messed up reality do you live in? People knew Africa/India etc was there since long before roman times, indeed there was pretty open trade with most of them. You are correct in what you say if you relate it to South America and the conquistadors or North America, though that started off peaceful when the first British people landed there, it was only later when it was a mixed bag of settlers that it turned ugly.

Another wonderful example of bullshit.

Open trade with India & Africa pre roman times ? The Egyptians did some trading with neighbouring states sure, but thats it.

Going through the posts in this thread, sheesh..people sure like to post crap about things they know nothing about.

 

[Huntingtons]

It would be much the same as it is today, except rather than guns and machetes it would be speaks and arrows, the violence has been in Africa since long before white people turned up.

and how exactly do you know that it would be the same? because after 400 years people dont evolve?

 

[Olgaline]

some of the reply's in here are really scary to read.
shows how we'r slowly but surely americanizing, soon europeans will be looking at maps going nigeria ? thought that was that river that runs in nepal? you know where all the islamic terrorists live!?

to understand the individual african regions you need to know and understand their past. and how we the west have influenced "progress" or rather to some extend the limitations there of in thease countries, further more you cant simply define the whole of africa under one banner, the regions and countries differ alot, and what holds true to some dosent to others. Egypt, South Africa, Tanzania & Sudan being 4 very very differnt cases wich all tho all belong to the same continent might as well be worlds appart and most similarities would hold true globaly as well.

I'd also Suggest that even if african regions wanted to evolve further faster, the western world wouldnt allow it, and arent allowing it, and that it's far more feasable for the west to keep contributing development funds "wich we control" than leave it to chance and invite potential competition.

and to tho's thinking Kenya has been a shining democracy I'd advize you to look up Moi

 

[Raven]

Another wonderful example of bullshit.

Open trade with India & Africa pre roman times ? The Egyptians did some trading with neighbouring states sure, but thats it.

Going through the posts in this thread, sheesh..people sure like to post crap about things they know nothing about.

No, I didn't say that, I said we traded with them before we invaded them, read, learn, become enlightened.

 

[Raven]

and how exactly do you know that it would be the same? because after 400 years people dont evolve?

No the don't evolve really, remote tribes still go around butchering each other so whats to say the rest of them wouldn't? Are you saying without western influence they would be civilised?

The tribal differences in Africa go back hundreds if not thousands of years a couple of hundred years of occupancy didn't change much with that respect. I am tired of other countries blaming everything on us because we had an empire. the bitterness is old.

We are not responsible for their problems and shouldn't be made to feel as though we do. I couldn't care less if a bunch of savages want to blow each other away to be quite honest, there are far more interesting things in life to care about.

 

[Zede]

No, I didn't say that, I said we traded with them before we invaded them, read, learn, become enlightened.

we didnt u noob

 

[Raven]

noob? are you 12?

ofc we did, we traded with pretty much everyone, spices, gold, cloth.


Look on the old maps, you will find Africa and India on them because we had established trade routes, people didn't make maps for fun

 

[Chronictank]

we didnt u noob

where on earth did you get that from :s

Europe has been trading with Asia and Africa for centuries

 

[Zede]

noob? are you 12?

ofc we did, we traded with pretty much everyone, spices, gold, cloth.


Look on the old maps, you will find Africa and India on them because we had established trade routes, people didn't make maps for fun

u said PRE ROMAN u Noob

 

[Chronictank]

We are not responsible for their problems and shouldn't be made to feel as though we do. I couldn't care less if a bunch of savages want to blow each other away to be quite honest, there are far more interesting things in life to care about.

Kind of hard to use that line when we are happily stomping all over other nations in the modern day

 

[Raven]

u said PRE ROMAN u Noob

Why so agitated?

No i didn't I said that Europe knew of their existence since before Roman times, how else would we have had the maps. Besides which the Roman empire was designed on the model of an African empire (the carthaginian empire) pre Roman southern Europe was trading with Northern Africa and beyond.

The point is, white men were not seen as gods to Africans because they had seen them before. For southern America it was different, they were seen as gods because of their appearance and technology.

Ahem "noob"

 

[Raven]

Kind of hard to use that line when we are happily stomping all over other nations in the modern day

The point is that even if there was no interaction whatsoever they would still be killing each other. Kenya was doing well and a prime example to the rest of the African countries, all until the age old problems raised their head.

 

[Zede]

Why so agitated?

No i didn't I said that Europe knew of their existence since before Roman times, how else would we have had the maps. Besides which the Roman empire was designed on the model of an African empire (the carthaginian empire) pre Roman southern Europe was trading with Northern Africa and beyond.

The point is, white men were not seen as gods to Africans because they had seen them before. For southern America it was different, they were seen as gods because of their appearance and technology.

Ahem "noob"

The celts of Europe had maps of Africa & India... ? id absolutely love to see such a map, please link just one.

 

[Jupiter]

Why so agitated?

No i didn't I said that Europe knew of their existence since before Roman times, how else would we have had the maps. Besides which the Roman empire was designed on the model of an African empire (the carthaginian empire) pre Roman southern Europe was trading with Northern Africa and beyond.

The point is, white men were not seen as gods to Africans because they had seen them before. For southern America it was different, they were seen as gods because of their appearance and technology.

Ahem "noob"

Yeah i guess thats why Lake Victoria was 1st discovered in 1858. Oh and i suppose the Chinese & India trade never existed before Marco Polo ever learned to walk. At least read up on the subject before u give ur pompous blitey take on it!