Fed up with africa

[ilaya]

Kenya, the shining light for democracy on the continent is now an utter shambles consisting of tribal wars and machete wielding mobs.

isnt it time we just let them get on with whatever bullshit they think they are doing and leave em be?

stop all the aid they recieving, development plans ect.. until they grow up into countries that actually have the infrastructure in place to use it.

im SICK and tired of appeals on TV for regions in africa that have starving peeps.. yet those regions somehow find the money for guns. Corruption is rife in africa, and the money is mostly aid money from the western world.

sitting on their arses in camps WAITING for aid aint doing any good, coz as soon as they get it, they just form gangs to kill others.

if kenya cant even get it right, there's little hope for the rest.

 

[Azurus]

I'm sure it's very difficult for you to see the 'poor starving negroes' on the news every week, and the constant appeals for aid might be interfering with your TV viewing time, but really i think you need to grow up.

You ask 'isnt it time we just let them get on with whatever bullshit they think they are doing and leave em be?'

This is impossible. Due to our extensive involvment in Africa going back to the days of the British Empire we have an obligation to help these areas in any way we can. The Empire (Britain) got rich on the back of the exploitation of the locals in these areas, many of the current problems can be traced back to our actions at this time, such as the creation of artificial borders completely ignoring ethnic and tribal differences, it is impossible to 'leave em be' we have already changed the continent in an irrecovable way.

'stop all the aid they recieving, development plans ect'

The amount of Aid that is sent to Africa is actually minsicule when looked at in comparison the Aid recieved by countries such as Israel. Furthermore it's not exactly a great drain on the British economy considering that about 98 pents of each pound of aid sent comes back into our economy.


'sitting on their arses in camps WAITING for aid aint doing any good, coz as soon as they get it, they just form gangs to kill others.'

I find this statement extremely offensive. Correct me if im wrong but you seem to be accusing people forced into refugee camps as being lazy. 'Waiting for aid' and then 'as soon as they get it, forming gangs to kill others.' Do you have any understanding of what is actually happening in the country? Here's a quote from a good article on the subject.

'When all other channels of seeking justice for embittered grievances in a corrupt regime appear to have been exhausted, some will see violence as the only way to protect their interests.' Taken from The violence in Kenya may be awful, but it is not senseless 'savagery' | Guardian daily comment | Guardian Unlimited

The dispute is one over politics, and while by no means is it justified it isn't the senseless violence for the sake of vioelence carried out in a continent that just refuses to accept our help you make it out to be.

'if kenya cant even get it right, there's little hope for the rest.'

Lastly this sweeping generalisation of the an incredibley diverse continent shows your general ignorance. The people of Africa aren't a bunch of homegenous savages intent on self destruction. The continent has a diverse range of people's and cultures, it's time you ditched your Neanderthal opinions and stepped into the 21st century.

 

[Azurus]

Furthermore, as im sure you are going to try and rebut my previous statement about colonial involvement by saying 'but that was so long ago', the actions taken by modern corporations are equally damaging to the indiginous population. An example of this is in the Congo, where the pursuit of a mineral called Coltan, used in many electronic devices including mobile phones, has led to a huge amount of suferring. Militias have been formed to clear out (rape,murder the inhabitants of) the villages that happen to be in the way of these deposits so these companies can access the deposits. This is the form of Western involvment, rather than the 'aid' we are sending that is most relevant when talking about the continent.

 

[ilaya]

politics by the way of the machete?

who needs to step into the 21st century?

 

[Olgaline]

Kenya a shining light? your kidding right ?
it's always been a question of when.....
but they did have a hmm lets call it working arrangement hehe...

 

[Olgaline]

Otherwise Azurus sums it up preaty well, there's alot more to it tho than mearly the colonial times, such as rediculouse trade agreements, development loans that are drowning the african economies, I could add so much but i cba to get into it really.

sadly it's more afforable for "us" the way things are now, and it's not really in the western worlds interrest that africa develops, lets say too fast,

 

[Raven]

This is impossible. Due to our extensive involvment in Africa going back to the days of the British Empire we have an obligation to help these areas in any way we can. The Empire (Britain) got rich on the back of the exploitation of the locals in these areas, many of the current problems can be traced back to our actions at this time, such as the creation of artificial borders completely ignoring ethnic and tribal differences, it is impossible to 'leave em be' we have already changed the continent in an irrecovable way.

Oh look a whining lefty blaming the empire for yet another country not being able to look after itself, how new.

Actually they were pretty into their murderous rampages and tribal wars before we even set foot there, if anything we united them against a common enemy (us)


Your second post is more correct though, they are (as a country) exploited by large companies for their resources, the aid companies are partly to blame too, the money rarely gets to the people that actually need it.

 

[kivik]

Azurus summed it up perfectly.

 

[gohan]

Furthermore, as im sure you are going to try and rebut my previous statement about colonial involvement by saying 'but that was so long ago', the actions taken by modern corporations are equally damaging to the indiginous population. An example of this is in the Congo, where the pursuit of a mineral called Coltan, used in many electronic devices including mobile phones, has led to a huge amount of suferring. Militias have been formed to clear out (rape,murder the inhabitants of) the villages that happen to be in the way of these deposits so these companies can access the deposits. This is the form of Western involvment, rather than the 'aid' we are sending that is most relevant when talking about the continent.

oh really? and where do i apply to join virgin mobiles rape and pilage party? online or.....?

im pretty certain the african villages "in the way" have no clue whats it the caves mountians ect and you could just say were doing some mining, they dont need to barbaric medieval cvnt faced whore bags

the council have closed a path that i used every day, been closed for like 3 months, they or so very very in my way, maybe i should rape them all??

 

[Himse]

You can't really justify the fact they are killing and raping people in any way.

We should stop sending our money to these appeals, just let them get on with it, if they want to fight, let them do it amongst themselves.

 

[Himse]

I'm sure it's very difficult for you to see the 'poor starving negroes' on the news every week, and the constant appeals for aid might be interfering with your TV viewing time, but really i think you need to grow up.

You ask 'isnt it time we just let them get on with whatever bullshit they think they are doing and leave em be?'

This is impossible. Due to our extensive involvment in Africa going back to the days of the British Empire we have an obligation to help these areas in any way we can. The Empire (Britain) got rich on the back of the exploitation of the locals in these areas, many of the current problems can be traced back to our actions at this time, such as the creation of artificial borders completely ignoring ethnic and tribal differences, it is impossible to 'leave em be' we have already changed the continent in an irrecovable way.

'stop all the aid they recieving, development plans ect'

The amount of Aid that is sent to Africa is actually minsicule when looked at in comparison the Aid recieved by countries such as Israel. Furthermore it's not exactly a great drain on the British economy considering that about 98 pents of each pound of aid sent comes back into our economy.


'sitting on their arses in camps WAITING for aid aint doing any good, coz as soon as they get it, they just form gangs to kill others.'

I find this statement extremely offensive. Correct me if im wrong but you seem to be accusing people forced into refugee camps as being lazy. 'Waiting for aid' and then 'as soon as they get it, forming gangs to kill others.' Do you have any understanding of what is actually happening in the country? Here's a quote from a good article on the subject.

'When all other channels of seeking justice for embittered grievances in a corrupt regime appear to have been exhausted, some will see violence as the only way to protect their interests.' Taken from The violence in Kenya may be awful, but it is not senseless 'savagery' | Guardian daily comment | Guardian Unlimited

The dispute is one over politics, and while by no means is it justified it isn't the senseless violence for the sake of vioelence carried out in a continent that just refuses to accept our help you make it out to be.

'if kenya cant even get it right, there's little hope for the rest.'

Lastly this sweeping generalisation of the an incredibley diverse continent shows your general ignorance. The people of Africa aren't a bunch of homegenous savages intent on self destruction. The continent has a diverse range of people's and cultures, it's time you ditched your Neanderthal opinions and stepped into the 21st century.

ultimately, poverty causes violence, anyone see that thing about gangs around the country? with all the kids having fights?

Thing is, they are stupid enough to fall into that scene, then make nothing of their lives, then wonder why they end up in prison, same goes for over there.

 

[kivik]

oh really? and where do i apply to join virgin mobiles rape and pilage party? online or.....?

im pretty certain the african villages "in the way" have no clue whats it the caves mountians ect and you could just say were doing some mining, they dont need to barbaric medieval cvnt faced whore bags

the council have closed a path that i used every day, been closed for like 3 months, they or so very very in my way, maybe i should rape them all??

I don't think there is any huge money to earn from using that path. And I certainly don't think you'd get paid to rape the council.

I'm pretty certain every inhabitant in those villages know what the companies are after and that's why they come for it too, to earn money. And that's where the western companies comes into the picture; "oh fuck, someone is stealing our cash! send the militia on them!". Now those people are the real motherfucking 'barbaric medieval cvnt faced whore bags'.

 

[kivik]

Thing is, they are stupid enough to fall into that scene, then make nothing of their lives, then wonder why they end up in prison, same goes for over there.

What the fuck? Do you think these people are born with the same fucking priveligies as you and I? Do you think it's about stupidity when militias come to villages and take 6y old recruits? Do you think there is anything at all to 'make something out of their lives'? There's no hope, no future, no money, no water, no nothing. And you think you have the dignity to call them stupid for falling into the wrong scene?

 

[Himse]

What the fuck? Do you think these people are born with the same fucking priveligies as you and I? Do you think it's about stupidity when militias come to villages and take 6y old recruits? Do you think there is anything at all to 'make something out of their lives'? There's no hope, no future, no money, no water, no nothing. And you think you have the dignity to call them stupid for falling into the wrong scene?

It happens exactly the same anywhere else there is gangs, they pick them up early.
Of course there is more stuff to do, than just fall into a gang lifestyle.

They live in the same poverty, just with a gun & keep getting shot at.

You know why they have no hope, future, money or water?
Because the Government / themselves waste it on guns and other weapons, rather than feeding the population. Its not like they want to give them food either since they are running round like assfucks shooting at eachother.

You are only going to be hunted down out there if you are a member of a gang, same goes for anywhere else in the world.

 

[Vasconcelos]

Problem in Africa and in countries of Latinamerica (like Venezuela e.g) is that the funds are in the wrong hands, either on plain tyrants (Last King of Scotland any1?) or dictators with a false mask of pseudo-democracy.
And the worst thing of all is that theres no population to raise against them, after all, they didnt have a bourgeoisie (spell?) revolution like in Europe 2 centuries ago.

 

[Himse]

Problem in Africa and in countries of Latinamerica (like Venezuela e.g) is that the funds are in the wrong hands, either on plain tyrants (Last King of Scotland any1?) or dictators with a false mask of pseudo-democracy.
And the worst thing of all is that theres no population to raise against them, after all, they didnt have a bourgeoisie (spell?) revolution like in Europe 2 centuries ago.

Exactly! Thank you.

All they do is think, shit were not getting any money from the government, lets make a gang and rebel.

 

[Mojo]

isnt it time we just let them get on with whatever bullshit they think they are doing and leave em be?

Yup

 

[Dukat]

I find the problem about africa disturbing.

I dont think that we (as in the british empire) are totally to blame, but I think we did have a part to play in the continent ending up as it has.

I dont understand how it can go on for as long as it has, alot of the violence appears almost-senseless and anarchistic.

I dont know much about Africa's progress (or lack thereof) in recent years, it looks as if it would have been very difficult to follow even if someone was actually trying to, and I havent really been trying much, although I did follow the Darfur situation for a while.

It seems to me that the problem is, as others have said, corruption. There seems to be very little to stop people in positions of authority becoming corrupt so they take as much as they can.

To my mind, the easiest solution wouild be a systematic approach of someone with an idea of how a political system works and the force to back it up. However, as Iraq has shown, this is not always a guaranteed solution.

A population living in a world of genocide and corruption cannot suddenly flick a switch and become a democracy, a population's deep seated suspicion and fear against any sort of government means that a democracy would likely tear itself apart as the hardliners in the population try to take advantage of the governments lack of absolute contol to try to rise up and return the country to a place where they can go back to being corrupt.

I dont think there is any easy way out of this - stopping aid to africa could lead to a humanitarian distaster on a scale that we havent seen before. That said the current situation is hardly anywhere near good enough.

 

[Jupiter]

Lets see how many countires were fucked up by British Colonialism: Pakistan/India, Iraq, Palestine, South Africa, Egypt, Ghana, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Uganda, Kenya, Zanzibar, The Gambia, Swaziland, Botswana, The Falklands, Burma, Malaya, Ireland.............. yep a common thread through them all

 

[Levin]

Lets see how many countires were fucked up by British Colonialism: Pakistan/India, Iraq, Palestine, South Africa, Egypt, Ghana, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Uganda, Kenya, Zanzibar, The Gambia, Swaziland, Botswana, The Falklands, Burma, Malaya, Ireland.............. yep a common thread through them all

Add USA to that list.

 

[Imgormiel]

Add USA to that list.

History dictates, that wasn't entirely true but the Brits did have something to do with it aye.

 

[Mojo]

Lets see how many countires were fucked up by British Colonialism: Pakistan/India, Iraq, Palestine, South Africa, Egypt, Ghana, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Uganda, Kenya, Zanzibar, The Gambia, Swaziland, Botswana, The Falklands, Burma, Malaya, Ireland.............. yep a common thread through them all

OK, now you get to define exactly how "fucked up" the British empire made these countries, explain to me in turn how these countries were before hand how are they are now, how we fucked them up and how the benefited.


Your time starts now.

 

[Marc]

OK, now you get to define exactly how "fucked up" the British empire made these countries, explain to me in turn how these countries were before hand how are they are now, how we fucked them up and how the benefited.


Your time starts now.

he cant. Hes just naming all the countries he knows that at one point were ruled by us.

 

[Dukat]

Lets see how many countires were fucked up by British Colonialism: Pakistan/India, Iraq, Palestine, South Africa, Egypt, Ghana, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Uganda, Kenya, Zanzibar, The Gambia, Swaziland, Botswana, The Falklands, Burma, Malaya, Ireland.............. yep a common thread through them all

To be fair, at the time of British Colonialism the french, dutch, germans and russians were trying to do what we did, only we got there first in many cases.

What about north/west africa? The french were the ones who occupied that area, was that our fault too?

What about what the spanish did to the Aztecs? Wasnt Spanish colonialism worse in that case?

We may have been bad back then, but we have taken steps to right some of the wrongs commited - if I remember correctly the British Empire was the first to outlaw slavery - the spanish and portugese carried on long after we had outlawed it.

Its so easy to blame the British empire for everything that is wrong in the world today, and some of the blame is ours, but we are by no means the only reason, and nowadays we're doing more than most to try to make amends for our mistakes.

 

[Rookiescot]

Lets see how many countires were fucked up by British Colonialism: Pakistan/India, Iraq, Palestine, South Africa, Egypt, Ghana, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Uganda, Kenya, Zanzibar, The Gambia, Swaziland, Botswana, The Falklands, Burma, Malaya, Ireland.............. yep a common thread through them all

Yeah cos all those countries had a utopian existance before we turned up.
And tut, tut. You forgot Afghanistan.

 

[Jupiter]

Lets see u divided Palestine and caused that issue, you caused the divide between India & Pakistan, you diffently caused the divide in Ireland but hey its like the film full metal jacket "inside every vietnamise is an american trying to get out"

 

[Rookiescot]

Lets see u divided Palestine and caused that issue, you caused the divide between India & Pakistan, you diffently caused the divide in Ireland but hey its like the film full metal jacket "inside every vietnamise is an american trying to get out"

Those countries were all divided along religious lines. Blame organised religion for it.

 

[Vasconcelos]

Lets see how many countires were fucked up by British Colonialism: Pakistan/India, Iraq, Palestine, South Africa, Egypt, Ghana, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Uganda, Kenya, Zanzibar, The Gambia, Swaziland, Botswana, The Falklands, Burma, Malaya, Ireland.............. yep a common thread through them all

Its a common thread through all empires through all history thou, not only the brits to be blamed.

Just see how many countries were fucked by the France empire, or the Spain empire, i'm sure if you ask ppl from Congo or Peru they wont have many good things to say on either of 'em. Or more recently, how many countries are being fucked right now by the USA "empire"

 

[Marc]

Lets see u divided Palestine and caused that issue, you caused the divide between India & Pakistan, you diffently caused the divide in Ireland but hey its like the film full metal jacket "inside every vietnamise is an american trying to get out"

Where are you from?

 

[Gorbachioo]

I think azurus said it pretty well.


But dont get me wrong. I am deeply sorry that you have to watch starving children when you're enjoying your TV programme. Life just isnt fair sometimes.