F***ed up kids, is it the parent's fault?

[Chronictank]

stay on topic plz before you start offending people

 

[old.Tohtori]

stay on topic plz before you start offending people

F*ck off with your offending people

 

[Darksword]

Dude you are the one who is making assumptions.. You think parents who give their child the odd smack on the ass when they run around hypo will suddenly start beating them round the head. Yes there is a line and its one most parents do not cross.

And its not a question of social standards, The point is someone who gets a few dodgy liberal ideas in their head often starts to think up a whole set of moral standards that would make 'the world a better place' but all this time they have no real knowledge of the way people actually work. Believe me once they grow up a little (and perhaps start to read some more intelligent literature) they will start to see the world for what it is. Jesus I went thru that phase and Im sure alot of people do.

I take it your reffering to me here with my slightly liberal ideas trying to tell you all how to raise your children <sigh>

Right im gunna say this one more time mr tris - just so you fucking get it coz i think ive said ti 3-4 times in this thread, infact i wrote a whole big post on it but if you cant be arsed to read that one, then why should i even expect you to read this one? but im a kind enough person, ill explain again.

I child who is abused often becomes far more defencive and less social, wethar it be through bullying, paedophilic rape, or simply being hit from there parents too much. If you are denying this happens then stop reading here as what i say next will probably just make you call me a retard or moron or whatever (this seem to be the main insults on these boards).

I am not saying this happens all the time, it is indeed more likely the minority of times. However, it does happen, you hear about it all the time, how someone was treated wrongly and have so become slightly withdrawn from society, heck ill give you an example;

If as a child you were constantly told your shit at football, wahts the possibility you would play it? if even your parents said you were shit? - slim to none.

From that logic it isnt hard to see how if a young child is hit (ok once, twice, on the rare occasion, but im talking severly here, from the parents that DO cross the line, that DO hit there children at full force) will become withdrawn from society, and this child has no one to turn to, because lets be honest, when you were young, who was the most incredible people in the world that ment everything to you? your parents, and if there turning around and smacking you for doing something slightly wrong, chances are your going to have problems.

I know this is the minority, a very slim minority most probably, but it does fucking happen and that happening is to fucking much in itself.

Now why should it remain illegal? The law is in place to ensure the safety of ALL its citizens from the 1 week old baby to the 104 year old woman. By making it legal to hit your child it condones the action as acceptable, and also increases the number of parents that will use physical punishment as a form of discipline (i know most parents do etc, but if societys telling you something is ok, more people are likely to do it, thats easy to see) and when they see it "works" and is alot easier than talking and explaining and teaching your child then again, more people will simply resort to this.

I know everyone considers the government a nanny state trying to control everything, heck i do most the time, but i do agree that harming your child (because that is what it essentially is) should remain illegal, if only to attempt to protect the young.

oh and i suppose us "dodgy liberals" win on this one since the government will most probably face alot of protests on this matter if they try and amke it legal again.

oh and on the case of the police thing, the young still have a fear of the police etc, but they also understand they have basic human rights that means if the police use excessive force or abuse you then you can work within the system to have something done about it. i dont see how this is wrong, all it means is the police have to work instead of grabbing a kid and smacking him.

 

[tris-]

actually i did read it, i think its more the fact you never read what i wrote.

i asked you for some proof to back up what your saying, thats all.

oh and on the case of the police thing, the young still have a fear of the police etc, but they also understand they have basic human rights that means if the police use excessive force or abuse you then you can work within the system to have something done about it. i dont see how this is wrong, all it means is the police have to work instead of grabbing a kid and smacking him.

if they are scared of the police, then they know why they are there. so its safe to assume that they then know what breaking the law is/means.
maybe if they never broke the law the police would never have to be involved. all these rights for criminals and middle finger to the innocent is getting more shit every year.

 

[Darksword]

realise i gave a shit example in that but you should be able to see what i mean

 

[Ballard]

No it wasnt in reference to you, read up You are partly right but I think we are talking about quite different things. You do know in the UK you are allowed to give your child a smack on the bum or arm? This is what I am talking about anything over that generally is assault. There are circumstances, as I outlined above, where smacking is essential for ensuring your childs safety.

 

[Darksword]

actually i did read it, i think its more the fact you never read what i wrote.

i asked you for some proof to back up what your saying, thats all.

well there will have been studys done on this and about disciplining however i dont know the names or details of these studys tho im sure it wouldnt be that hard to find. Do you hapepn to have any proof of waht your saying being true? i mean we're all talking on a very basic level here and arent experts in this area and as such i can only give examples of how it works. What type of proof are you looking for?

 

[Ballard]

Mr darksword, when a child is overexcited, completely irrational and completely igonring any words from their parent while endangering their own life (possibly by running across the road repeatedly) do you think the parent is allowed to bring them back into line with a firm but caring (and very legal according to UK law) smack that then allows the parent to tell them that what they are doing is wrong/dangerous? This is a YES or NO answer question. If you have been in this situation before you will know what the right answer is.



And yes this does happen, children literaly go crazy if they get too much sugar in their systems or suffer from ADD.

 

[Dakkath]

Discipline and children...

It will be debated until the end of time and I'm sure that no-one will ever agree on a solution...

Personally, I do believe that smacking has it's place... If used with restraint, as a shock tactic on only the worst behaviour or situations where there is potential danger to the young'uns...

If your kid misbehaves, then sending them to their room where the vast majority have their own TV, PS2, PC, Hifi is no bloody punishment at all...

'What? You killed next doors cat? Go play on your PS2 and don't come out until you're sorry!!!' What sort of deterrent is that?

Personally, I've been on the receiving end of most types of violence while I was a youngster. Some justified, some not.

A smack round the leg for running away from the parents and straight towards a river bank when little was justified imo...

Being attacked with a broomstick, after comming home 30mins late from school one day, not so justified...

It's all about defining boundries and making sure that no-one crosses them

 

[old.Tohtori]

These days taking away their PS2 works 1000% times better then a slap on the ass.

Kinda like women and a nice comment

 

[Ballard]

These days taking away their PS2 works 1000% times better then a slap on the ass.

Kinda like women and a nice comment

When my C64 got taken away as a kid man that was harsh

 

[Lakashnik]

used to get sent to my room... oh wait i had a sega game gear oh no batteries have run out.. all 6 of them.. and the ac adaptor is in the other room. noooooo

 

[Gotrag]

This is a very interesting subject there are lots of kids who I know who a very aggressive to every one and generally badly behaved there is nothing parents or any form of authority figure can do about it.

Me on the other hand was brought up very old fashion I have lived with my Nan and granddad for many years now but before that I lived with my parents when they was together many children blame there bad behaviour on parents splitting up also but that’s them trying to get out of punishment because there is nothing wrong with me.

As for Discipline my parents don’t believe in it (well not ‘smacking’ anyway) and I have come out fine, as for my grandparents they strongly believe in it but my granddad would never hit me as he thinks I might hit him back.

To sum it all up there is not a lot you can do its going to get worse because the kids now will have kids of there own and they will have kids and they will just get slowly worse, bad thing about this is that children that don’t do things like this or aren’t aggressive will get in trouble when they don’t deserve too

 

[Darksword]

Mr darksword, when a child is overexcited, completely irrational and completely igonring any words from their parent while endangering their own life (possibly by running across the road repeatedly) do you think the parent is allowed to bring them back into line with a firm but caring (and very legal according to UK law) smack that then allows the parent to tell them that what they are doing is wrong/dangerous? This is a YES or NO answer question. If you have been in this situation before you will know what the right answer is.



And yes this does happen, children literaly go crazy if they get too much sugar in their systems or suffer from ADD.

well yeh but this is very circumstancinial (however its spelt) + also if you cant control your child dont hype them up on suger like lynette in desperate housewives, she doesnt give them suger past 6pm i think! add is summit different, but riddlin darn it (i disagree with riddlin tbh but thats a whole diff thread)

 

[Gotrag]

well yeh but this is very circumstancinial (however its spelt) + also if you cant control your child dont hype them up on suger like lynette in desperate housewives, she doesnt give them suger past 6pm i think! add is summit different, but riddlin darn it (i disagree with riddlin tbh but thats a whole diff thread)

FFS stop with the post farming

 

[Natswoo]

One of the reasons why people under the age of 16 do it is because the police can't touch them

 

[Ctuchik]

These days taking away their PS2 works 1000% times better then a slap on the ass.

Kinda like women and a nice comment

or the kid goes completly mental theres a few swedish stories ive seen about kids going berzerk when the parents banned them from the computer.

 

[Dandare]

Question is just like manic street preachers said.
if you you tolerant this then your children will be next
uke:

 

[MKJ]

I think there is a deeper reason for open hostility from people these days. I think it stems from the fact that lots of people have virtually nothing and are never likely to have anything and just won't accept subservience. They have realized that having an 'attitude' is as good as or far better than a job - or money - or anything. It is a tool in a way of their class. It is now a part of many people's culture and certainly their upbringing. It doesn't matter they got shit - it doesn't matter if they ain't got this or that cos 'if you 'f*** with me you gonna get it big time'. Beyond that what else is needed in life? It really is down to basic instincts rearing it's ugly head. Why do people revert to using natural and basic instincts? When they haven't been educated properly. So in effect the kids of today are the products of very badly educated parents. You see it everywhere - the thicker the people the more intimidating many are. Downright scarey. Only saving grace is that everyone has basic instincts so you can get 'down and dirty' with them if there is a need but they can't rise to your level so you have the upper hand.

Lots of other issues at work too - like the crazy worthless tv programs obviously catering for the mindless masses. They are more or less keeping them there all nice and snug and happy in moronic bliss!

Shit world so be careful!

MKJ - Thugs

 

[Dandare]

Sad thing is bro you can't blame the kids,or the parents.
I mean you can hardly blame my nephew for being bad,but hey she is a single parent so it's all it mum's fault......
But hey she is single and must comlpy as numpy scale as grades go so my nephew gonna be thick right?
So single english mum=chav
Chav=hoods
Hoods=Crime
What a load of bullshit,my nephew derserves a belt now and again and full marks to my sister or wife that does it in public,I for one will not say a word cos now and again it needs doing,and if we had done it more as a Country I doubt we would be in this mess we are now :eek2:

 

[Dandare]

See even MKJ agree's with me bump <smiles>

 

[Ctuchik]

And yes this does happen, children literaly go crazy if they get too much sugar in their systems or suffer from ADD.

tell me about it im suffering from ADHD myself and was a sugar addict when i was a kid >.<

and i was THE most pain in the arse when i was a kid. i acually had to go in a leashe(sp?) until i was around 10 years old. coz if i didnt have that when we were out shopping i was gone and god knows where i would be running to. coz i sure as hell didnt. but not once, did my parents feel the need to resort to violence because of this. not once. they DID split up because of me, but thats about the most traumatizing thing ive had in my childhood, and that wasent so bad.

the parents that resorts to violence when his kid does something wrong is TOTALLY AND UTTERLY unsuitable as parents and should have their child taken away and put in a home where they acually knows what the fuck they are doing.

 

[MKJ]

Kinda backs up my argument really. The less thick a person is the more likely they are to act more agreeable at some point. They still have to live with all the rest of the nutters so get dragged down that way. Anyways the vast majority of kids are decent for sure. It is just the hardened (and minority - eh where I live anyways) that have always existed - eh I was one infact (product of a very bad upbringing - naughty but not nasty). Just the kids of today have seemingly higher grades of bad behaviour than when I was around. Thinking back though not that much come to think of it.

Tell you what gets me is the language from people though. I go out the back garden on a nice day to play my guitar. My house is next door to this business yard. The incredible bad language that emanates from there is unbelievable. They know kids are walking past all the time yet they still speak like it. I was so incensed I went up there one day and threatened the bloody boss of the place. You should hear the kids speak! Effing this and effing that. Then I heard a parent - guy - swearing at his kid in exactly the same way. I am a bit of a nutter myself and very nearly shouted at this bloke. It is just very bad education because it just can't be a bad brain because I know for a fact that many who swear like this are quite bright.

Really gets my blood boiling.

Anyways am moving to Denmark soon to live with my girlie forra while. Her house is surrounded by fields. Sounds like bliss to me. Play my guitar to the sound of birdies

 

[Rediknight]

Kinda backs up my argument really. The less thick a person is the more likely they are to act more agreeable at some point *snip*

Thats insane. You can't say someone whos more intelligent is less likely to be a thug all there life - some of the biggest arseholes in the world are the most educated, and they know it. I know people who bombed at school, flunked college and never even bothered with uni, who now are considered geniuses. I know one guy who failed every exam he was set at school, left education just before his 15th birthday and got in all manner of shit with the police and everything (orphan, so i can't really start bleating on about parenting in this post), but is now considered one of the most established car modders in europe, and is one of the soundest, kindest, calmest people i know.

In a case of someone being considered "thick" it usually means they aren't as able when it comes to sitting and spewing out the contents of their brain on paper, but when it comes to doing things, they'd make a bachelor of mathematics look like he dragged his single celled life up the beach yesterday.

You jus gotta find out what tools they need.

I quote:

Go in search of your people.
Love them, Serve them.
Begin with what they have,
Build on what they know
But of the leaders when their task is accomplished,
and their work is done, the people will remark

"We have done it ourselves"

i like that - who needs ten when one says it all?

 

[MKJ]

Well there are 2 versions of 'thick' in my book.

Permanently thick - as in intelligence. Lack of brain cells.
And just thick - as in a lack of education.

Your mates fall into the latter category. They can change in due course. The former though unless shown the error of his ways will remain in 'thick limbo' for ever more and a day.

 

[Rediknight]

Well there are 2 versions of 'thick' in my book.

Permanently thick - as in intelligence. Lack of brain cells.
And just thick - as in a lack of education.

Your mates fall into the latter category. They can change in due course. The former though unless shown the error of his ways will remain in 'thick limbo' for ever more and a day.

fair enough, but it doesnt automatically mean they'll be more aggresive or unruly than someone smart, does it? /shrug

I mean, take Mungo from Blazing Saddles he was so dense light bent around him, but he was only doing his job - once he realised he didn't HAVE to beat up anyone, he was as chill as beans...

mmmmaybe bad comparrison, i dunno, its late, im wasted

 

[MKJ]

I never pre-judge anyone. Infact this has backfired on me a few times where I see more than is there before me. I always give the benefit of the doubt and look for positive features in whoever I meet. When confronted by a mob though things are totally different. When confronted by nasty sods all massed together then it is downright dangerous. Lets face it some kids - people - are bloody evil and no amount of lee way from your end will help. These people are downright dangerous. When a few get together anything can happen. But as far as I am concerned everyone has a chance to get on my good side whoever they are and from wherever they have come from. Not being educated is nothing. You can quickly tell if someone is intelligent even if they can't speak a word of english for that matter. People are very complicated though and many harbour thoughts and feelings that are abhorant and secret. Even though you offer friendship you can easily be fooled for sure. Vast majority of people are great though thank goodness. Out of a million how many really bad people do you get? A mere handful probably.

 

[Outlander]

everyone is evil and you should all be locked up imo!

 

[Athinz]

How about.. if a kid is really naughty, just remove their favorite limb for 2 hours ?