F***ed up kids, is it the parent's fault?

[old.Tohtori]

Quoted For Emphasis

Youmade that up! Use it in a sentence!

 

[Rediknight]

Youmade that up! Use it in a sentence!

And yay, he did striketh down the non believing Seel, smiting his fragile form with a vengeful fury that, if left unchecked could leave the forumites trembling under his towering might. He spoke unto them that day and they listened and heard that he spoke crap, but sincerely, and echoed the thoughts of those gathered. His speech was spread across the land, through scriptures taken directly from the words his mouth did form, Quoted For Emphasis to give them the full weight of which they were originally bellowed forth, the intention and message clear from the words he used; "GO FORTH AND TOUCH IT, AND IT SHALL BE ALARMED!!"

i dunno, i was jus rambling by the end there...

 

[old.Tohtori]

And yay, he did striketh down the non believing Seel, smiting his fragile form with a vengeful fury that, if left unchecked could leave the forumites trembling under his towering might. He spoke unto them that day and they listened and heard that he spoke crap, but sincerely, and echoed the thoughts of those gathered. His speech was spread across the land, through scriptures taken directly from the words his mouth did form, Quoted For Emphasis to give them the full weight of which they were originally bellowed forth, the intention and message clear from the words he used; "GO FORTH AND TOUCH IT, AND IT SHALL BE ALARMED!!"

i dunno, i was jus rambling by the end there...

Touch your WHAT?! You perv!

 

[Hawkwind]

Just bring in national service or give the courts the option to force enlistment onto these kids and let the army or military prision sort it out.

Teach the little shits how to kill properly. Would only work if we have a Falklands every 10 years to cull em.

 

[Ctuchik]

.
Reason? kid links pain with a certain acton so doesnt do it again as he/she knows only bad will come of it.

yeah. pain is the only thing thats working right? might aswell cut their arm off so they wont do anything to start with.

i dont care if its just a "slap on the arse" or a punch on the face, i still think of it as child molesting. and is what most courts will say if u get charged for it. using violence on a child, no matter how minor the slap is, IS wrong. pain should NEVER be a substitute for a simple NO and a explanation.

as stated somwhere above. when the kid is able to fight back, THEN u can try to slap it. but i guess ud be to chicken to even try it by then.

 

[tris-]

child molesting is hitting kids? lol, so hitting an adult is also molesting. it doesnt matter about the age, neither does it matter how painful the punishment is.

if u want fast results then u need pain, for over time you need explaining.

 

[Gengi]

A quick question for all the people in this thread who have said that a smack is not an effective method of discipline and inevitably turns the children into violent sociopaths, how many of you have children of your own ?

Later

 

[Darksword]

A quick question for all the people in this thread who have said that a smack is not an effective method of discipline and inevitably turns the children into violent sociopaths, how many of you have children of your own ?

Later

personally i said that its inevitable that by allowing this as a method of discipline and by condoning it by law it will no doubt increase the number of parents who hit there children etc. I dont think anyone can effectivly argue that child abuse will not lead to mental problems in the future, even if thats for one in every million children, i feel that is 1in a million too many or whatever. theres other methods of discipline that dont leave a child black and blue and im whole heartadly against allowing this,through law, as a legal method id write more and explain myself more clearly but ive written other posts in this thread, and also its 02:22 AM coz i just watched sin city and it rocks and im tired. night

 

[Gengi]

Thanks for the reply Darksword, sort of, you restated your case but did not answer my question. I am going to assume you do not have children though due to some of your previous posts (yes I know assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups)
I am very interested in the answer to the question, mostly because I am a parent, and only have my own experiences to go by. I was smacked as a child, and have not yet shown much in the way of violent sociopathic tendencies, so I have difficulty believing the inevitability of it.
I would also like to know how other parents go about the practice of discipline,( maybe I would be better in a parenting forum ) the theories are marvellous. I use lots of them, loss of privelidges, isolation and grounding being the most used, but sometimes when one of my children does something, deliberately, that they know is wrong , I find myself falling back on a smacked bum and sent to bed.
Another question is now brought up Am, I just a lazy git ? should I at 8 or 9 o'clock at night be sitting the kids down and discussing their actions ? looking for a way forward, trying to understand their point of view ? or should I postpone the talk because it is bed time and then speak to them when they come home from school the following day about something they will have completely forgotten about ?

Later

 

[Lakashnik]

I was smacked as a child, and have not yet shown much in the way of violent sociopathic tendencies

just u wait. soon enough ur gonna burst and go on a huge rampage kiling every single piece of bacon u can get ur hands on! its all apart of my master plan. mwah ha ha ha ha

 

[old.Tohtori]

just u wait. soon enough ur gonna burst and go on a huge rampage kiling every single piece of bacon u can get ur hands on! its all apart of my master plan. mwah ha ha ha ha

All -apart- from your masterplan? You mean like...it has nothing to do with your masterplan?

 

[tris-]

darksword, you keep giving your oppinion that people will turn violent when they were at the end of the violence previously.

do you even have any evidence of this? i know plenty of old people who were hit by their parents and they have never them selves hit someone else to get their own back on someone, for being hit when they were younger.

 

[Tasslehoff]

Why does it only matter how the child is gonna be when it has grown up?

What about the pain and anguish that is caused when your parent, the one you're supposed to trust the most in the world hits you? Childhood is supposed to be the best joy in the world, but you guys seem to see it as a way to adulthood, instead of a time of life.

That pain works as well as parenting without pain, seems a moot point to me. If not using pain is as effective, even though more taxing, why not use it? The child will develop a sense of morale if you teach them why and why not to do things. If they're simply told not to, they have no idea of why not to, besides them getting smacked on their head.

 

[Lakashnik]

All -apart- from your masterplan? You mean like...it has nothing to do with your masterplan?

yup. thats exactley what i meant
u really think i would tell u bits of my masterplan?
im no novice at masterplans. this is my 19th.... sure the other 18 didnt go so well but i have learnt from mistakes. and i shall be victorius even if it takes hundreds of masterplans and thousands of spelling errors!

 

[Ballard]

Smacking does not necesarily equal child abuse. It is a parents responsibilty to bring up a child the best they can and there are times were a small amount of physical dsicpline is required. Typically it is required when children are in a heightened over excited or emotional state, at that time their neurons are so overactive they cannot parse information and cannot be reasoned with and so need to be physically disciplined (generally a light/medium smack on the bum etc). Often this is to protect them, for exmaple when tehy are playing silly buggers near a busy road.

I would guess the people arguing against any physical discipline are 16-20, likely educated in a private school and come from an upper/middle class family upbringing and have NO children themselves. It is also likely they 'identify closely' with other ethinic groups (which in reality they dont) and think that people who complain about support lines being outsourced to foreign countries are 'racist'. There is a high occurance of moral crusaders/new age hippies in this demographic

 

[Rediknight]

the evidence is there - 20 years ago the police were feared, parents and teachers stood hand in hand and backed each other up, adults had responsibilities and were bound to perform them.

Now - police are laughed at and assaulted by gangs of 10-15 y/olds who terrorize neighbourhoods, parents are sueing schools and teachers for trying to stop the rot, or having them arrested for breaking up a fight, adults shirk responsibility at every turn, as if they did try to influence their, or any other child, with a word of wisdom to save them (or someone else) from harm or police intervention, then Europe or some mothers group, or some government pressure group would go ape and say their being oppressive and cruel to their kids.

All this comes in the age that the anti-smacking brigade, the civil rights for criminals groups and the interfering busy bodies with nothing better to do than shout and scream about something which is NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM.

Funny how all these people are trying to "make the world better" when all i see is them causing pain and anguish to responsible parents, teachers and role models by blaming them for the failings of the system. Think a smack causes a kid pain? Imagine how that kid feels when his mom's been locked up and he's in care, cos some sticky beak in Sainsburys decided it was her/his place to report them to the police for smacking them across the back of the knees... reckon a smack hurts as much as that?

 

[Tasslehoff]

Smacking does not necesarily equal child abuse. It is a parents responsibilty to bring up a child the best they can and there are times were a small amount of physical dsicpline is required. Typically it is required when children are in a heightened over excited or emotional state, at that time their neurons are so overactive they cannot parse information and cannot be reasoned with and so need to be physically disciplined (generally a light/medium smack on the bum etc). Often this is to protect them, for exmaple when tehy are playing silly buggers near a busy road.

I would guess the people arguing against any physical discipline are 16-20, likely educated in a private school and come from an upper/middle class family upbringing and have NO children themselves. It is also likely they 'identify closely' with other ethinic groups (which in reality they dont) and think that people who complain about support lines being outsourced to foreign countries are 'racist'. There is a high occurance of moral crusaders/new age hippies in this demographic

Easy way of disciplining you children, they are over-excited... Let's smack them across their face, that'll teach them!
When you've learned that it's so much easier just to hit the children, I guess there's no way going back.

I don't see what social standards have to do with smacking your children though

 

[Ballard]

Easy way of disciplining you children, they are over-excited... Let's smack them across their face, that'll teach them!
When you've learned that it's so much easier just to hit the children, I guess there's no way going back.

I don't see what social standards have to do with smacking your children though

Dude you are the one who is making assumptions.. You think parents who give their child the odd smack on the ass when they run around hypo will suddenly start beating them round the head. Yes there is a line and its one most parents do not cross.

And its not a question of social standards, The point is someone who gets a few dodgy liberal ideas in their head often starts to think up a whole set of moral standards that would make 'the world a better place' but all this time they have no real knowledge of the way people actually work. Believe me once they grow up a little (and perhaps start to read some more intelligent literature) they will start to see the world for what it is. Jesus I went thru that phase and Im sure alot of people do.

 

[Tasslehoff]

Dude you are the one who is making assumptions.

Sorry about that part

And, my problem is that I've never seen anybody hit their children, so I can't see why it's needed

And no, I'm not educated in a private school, or coming from a higher class from the society.

 

[Ballard]

Sorry about that part

And, my problem is that I've never seen anybody hit their children, so I can't see why it's needed

And no, I'm not educated in a private school, or coming from a higher class from the society.

Most of the time it is not needed and a sit down and chat or a non physical punishment is much more healthy solution, but believe me there are times when children enter a hyper active state (often through too much sugar or randomly if the child has an attention defeict disorder) where they will not listen and cannot process anything closely resembling intelligent discussion. It is at these times a firm but caring slap on the bum can trigger them to be jolted out of their antics. Often their behaviour can actually be life threatening to them, i.e. running around a stove with boiling pots, running near the road or just fighting with other kids, Do you think a parent who slaps their child on the bum in these circumstances is not caring for their child the best they can?

 

[Marc]

the evidence is there - 20 years ago the police were feared, parents and teachers stood hand in hand and backed each other up, adults had responsibilities and were bound to perform them.

Now - police are laughed at and assaulted by gangs of 10-15 y/olds who terrorize neighbourhoods, parents are sueing schools and teachers for trying to stop the rot, or having them arrested for breaking up a fight, adults shirk responsibility at every turn, as if they did try to influence their, or any other child, with a word of wisdom to save them (or someone else) from harm or police intervention, then Europe or some mothers group, or some government pressure group would go ape and say their being oppressive and cruel to their kids.

All this comes in the age that the anti-smacking brigade, the civil rights for criminals groups and the interfering busy bodies with nothing better to do than shout and scream about something which is NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM.

Funny how all these people are trying to "make the world better" when all i see is them causing pain and anguish to responsible parents, teachers and role models by blaming them for the failings of the system. Think a smack causes a kid pain? Imagine how that kid feels when his mom's been locked up and he's in care, cos some sticky beak in Sainsburys decided it was her/his place to report them to the police for smacking them across the back of the knees... reckon a smack hurts as much as that?

Spot on. Wish all these fcking do gooders would piss off to france or sommat. Give coppers the rights to smash teenagers pissed up on cider around the face with a cosh (i know they do, but not in the back of a police van, in the open so everyone can see it). That would stop the gobby little shits from causing trouble.

 

[tris-]

the civil rights for criminals groups

the WHAT group?

CIVIL

RIGHTS

for

CRIMINALS?


now ive seen every thing.
you know, they are even talking about taking the bible out of hospital bedsides. JUST incase it offends other religions.. tbh i doubt any other religion could give a shit.

but civil rights for criminals, jeez. that just takes the shit right outta my ass.

 

[Lakashnik]

that just takes the shit right outta my ass.

sounds painful. does it involve tubes and a spade?

 

[Chronictank]

the WHAT group?

CIVIL

RIGHTS

for

CRIMINALS?


now ive seen every thing.
you know, they are even talking about taking the bible out of hospital bedsides. JUST incase it offends other religions.. tbh i doubt any other religion could give a shit.

but civil rights for criminals, jeez. that just takes the shit right outta my ass.

actually its cus of the MRSA scare, its the media tha are putting a racism twist on it

 

[tris-]

sounds painful. does it involve tubes and a spade?

it would of done, except the ethical use of DIY equipment group put a stop to it.

 

[Lakashnik]

roflcopter

 

[Rediknight]

does make me laugh ironically when you read that a convicted murderer, who took someones life, gets the European court of Human Rights to back him up, and the CPS to give him cash, to sue the prison sevice for not allowing him to watch TV, or to go on holiday or something.

i fucking HATE the shit this country is being put through by faceless, unelected, money-eating, older than dirt, shuffling, piss-soaked, lazy, pampered, spoilt, ugly, gin-addicted, wastes of space that are referred to Euro-crats...

they cost us billions to make our lives a misery bargain...

 

[Marc]

We need......

MAGGIE!!!!!

 

[Tasslehoff]

Do you think a parent who slaps their child on the bum in these circumstances is not caring for their child the best they can?

Nope, just never seen it happen before, and I'd like to see a situation where it's the only choice they have

See, as being there in person. Not hypotetically(or however you spell it )

 

[tris-]

i was thinkin

sooon these pc mofos will go too far
they will suggest we dont call english language english, we will need to call it the language of great britain and the united kingdom. just so we dont offerd wales etc