Exploitation on a grand scale!

[Lerium]

Hmmm, Fgs BB's are part of the game now, yeah sure its a rip off to pay for 2 accounts just to compeat RvR but, shit, you wanna play the game and solo you have to have one. If you did'nt solo and wernt such a dick thugs perhaps you would have friends ingame who would offer to buff you.

However I do have a lvl 50 buffbot + A rr5+ Shade/Champ (Cba to get fluffeh SC'ed and back out rvr "Ring Of Thunder" is a Fucker to get hold of). as a result I have alot of good solo/duo fights these days as my shade.

Yeah sure agreed it would be fun to see daoc w/o BB's for a while. BUT would'nt you miss the pace of fights? ...I mean 2.5 - 4.5 seconds to perform a positional / reactional style = FO, just make the game a little faster and I would be happy!

 

[Arethir]

I also hate bb's, but lol, get real, as if Mythic ever gonna give up all the extra cash? And you really think you can get everyone to stop playing this game by asking them?

GL

 

[Awarkle]

I like buffbots without them i wouldnt have hit rr4 by killing them in darkness falls. Buffbots will be found in every single game, crafter bots/vault bots/buffbots. All that it is is a second account to give you a boost.

If you dont want that boost then dont buy a second account, i had a buffbot for a few weeks and used him and yes its nice having capped dex and capped int then i realsed "hang on i dont need a buffbot to compete" and frankly i dont i run in large groups plenty of druids / bards / wardens to go around so im never short of buffage.

Ive got friends with buffbots so i get buffs from them somtimes Normally late nights when im soloing.

Because you will find that everyone else runs with buffs, the one thing i think abuffbot is good for is leveling up.

The only thing that will convince people to give up buffbots and to change how buffs work is to basically stick range on all buffs. then they will see people leave as they suddenly lost their edge in combat and then they would have to fight fairly or drag their bott around. Basically allowing mutli accounts per computer brought about buffbots before they allowed you to alt tab daoc it was 1 account per computer and peeps with second machines had a buffbot which was quite an investment really for a game.

Who cares anyway i didnt even read the first post because i saw "thugs" and read 1 line then read everyone elses responce

Thugs Rvr Properly get artifacts just think if you had spent all that time in THID on a proper toon with good artifacts then you would enjoy rvr a lot more.

 

[InertiaSlave]

Disregarding Thugs and all other stuffs, Gorryk put it best I think.

If no one used buffbots, it would be as balanced as everyone using buffbots. Only £10 a month cheaper

That's about as objectively as you can look at it, and very true.

 

[Tristessa]

That's about as objectively as you can look at it, and very true.

But that's just it. Not everyone has buffbots

 

[Belomar]

Let me quote myself from an earlier thread on this subject (self-referencing rocks! ):

Let's look at it from the perspective of game theory: the use of a buffbot for two players is analogical to the Prisoners' Dilemma, but with the strategies (!BB, BB), i.e. not having or having a buffbot, and the payoffs being your happiness in the game. Assume that this happiness factor is a function of your advantage over the other player in a fight as well as your feelings about the subscription fees. A payoff table would look something like this:

+--------------------------+
|\              P1         |
|  +-----------------------+
|  |       !BB       BB    |
|P2| !BB (10, 10) ( 0, 20) |
|  |  BB (20,  0) ( 1,  1) |
+--+-----------------------+

This expresses the fact that when both players have no BB (upper left cell), they have no advantage over the other, but on the other hand they only pay for one account, so their happiness is at fairly good 10. If one player gets a buffbot, however, they do have to pay higher subscription fees, but this is considerably offset by their advantage over the other player, so their happiness goes up to 20 while the opponent gets a happiness of 0 (on account of losing every damn fight!). Finally, if both players use buffbots, neither has an advantage any longer, but they now have to pay for two subscriptions each, so their happiness stops at a measly 1.

Given that both players action rationally (i.e. tries to maximize their payoffs), it is easy to see that getting a BB is a dominant strategy for this game (just like confessing is in the Prisoners' Dilemma). Furthermore, the state where both players have buffbots is a Nash Equilibrium, and thus it is no surprise that for a game of min-maxers like this, you will end up at this state sooner or later.

Conclusion: Bad game design by Mythic, situations like this should never occur. But they have, and it is in the nature of competitive online play that we end up at the Nash Equilibrium.

 

[Oldfaravid]

/cheers Thugs your first constructive post.. yes daoc is in a sad shape.. my bb acc has run out and since i wont renew my "real" chars acc there is no point of doing RvR.. what is even worse is that BBs totally screw up the balance between classes 1 on 1. For group rvr yes it is fine since most groups should have a "buffer" with em.. however for soloing the fact that a solo caster has way more hp casting speed etc or the fact that assassins to have more hp is an unbalancing factor.. this especially effects the archer classes (yeah im a hunter whine me to death) the archer classes are suppose to deal out some dmg before the melee action starts... but with buffs etc the dmg dealt out may be slight more but the hp gain on the opponent flattens this out making the odds for the melee character better since his %hp left will be better as the fight in melee starts.. You can say what you want to me cry more your class is overpowerd in NF.. well I dont like to zerg around or be at constant keeptakes/def.. i like to roam find my prey and have a nice 1 on 1.. ToA and BBs have totally screwed this up.. well since I had a BB most times i´ve played i shouldnt perhaps complain, but as WoW is getting released I dont see a point in playng another game that forces me to have 2 accs..

 

[Justicator]

And perhaps when you grow up... come visit REAL RvR

Thugs is too busy owning Thidranki. It's real rvr for him.

 

[Azathrim]

come WoW no buffbots there

Yet ....

 

[Iceforge]

And perhaps when you grow up... come visit REAL RvR

I have played a bit recently at 50

Hmmm.... whats real RvR then when it is not lvl 50 RvR?

 

[Arethir]

Yet ....

Very true.. they will get greedy in WoW also..

 

[cog]

What really happened is when he actually tried high level rvr and realised that his tricks from thid would not, in fact, work there, and he would, in fact, get owned all the time, he posted this to try and cover his tracks

And running unbuffed at 50 is still viable at times, it just takes a bit more effort because you really have to pick your fights. Having a bunch of toa tricks is helpful too...

 

[Frozenheart]

You seem to forget, it isn't in the CoC u have to buy a second account a roll a BB .... i, for one, chose not to and am nearly rr4 ... u work it out

 

[Belomar]

You seem to forget, it isn't in the CoC u have to buy a second account a roll a BB .... i, for one, chose not to and am nearly rr4 ... u work it out

I am not at all looking to diminish your achievements, but "nearly RR4" is not exactly high RR (I know people who got RR4 before they dinged 50). Furthermore, having a buffbot is not at all necessary for a group char, like your Wizard; it is when you are playing a stealth char (or if you happen to solo all the time with a non-stealth char) that buffbots are more or less required if you want to compete.

 

[Straef]

Could someone tell me what thugs said in a few lines? Cba reading all of it as it's most likely bullshit anyway

 

[Frozenheart]

maybe so, but considering we all have to start somewhere, rr4 is an acheivement as i have only been rvring a coupla months and found it hard to get grps as an icer. Anyone who gets rr2, 3 or 4 - up to 10 is worth a gratz to anyone.

 

[Belomar]

True. I just hope we don't get gratz threads for RR2 dings.

 

[Vladamir]

Could someone tell me what thugs said in a few lines? Cba reading all of it as it's most likely bullshit anyway

Certainly my lovebunny .

Blah blah blah im a noob i can't do real rvr blah blah mythic are like totally hax0ring us and making us pay for 2 accounts so noone is uber anymore with like uber buffs n stuffs lets all cancel our 2nd account and show mythic what's what ¬_¬.

There you go Stwaef :wub:

 

[Elitestoner]

2 accounts running on one computer takes a bit of doing. Could and will mean a complete new base unit at least for some people. Not only that but broadband etc. We are talking quite a lot of money now by the time you have taken into account the 2nd monthly payment.

as invis said, an average pc can run 2 accounts, especially with clientsleep. and i ran 2 even 3 accounts on my 56k connection for about 2 years playing daoc, didnt cause any extra lag. so no u dont. 16 quid a month is hardly a lot of money tbh either

It is obvious that Mythic want you to level to 50 quickly and more or less pass through Thid in no time. Very evident cos the xp is so high you can't help but hit 25 in Thid in no time at all.

thid is meant to help you level, idiot

Whining? Hell I was one of the first to use a damn buffbot!

nice contradiction in ur thread there. I CAN USE BB BUT NO1 ELSE CAN :<

 

[AngelHeal]

FFS i hate u now...i bet he gona play wow and im gona manage to join same server as him...just my luck

erf.... sowwy

 

[Frozenheart]

True. I just hope we don't get gratz threads for RR2 dings.

Hehe nah, just saves those for grp

 

[GimpStrole]

I do think Thugs has a point, I remember not being able to go to emain because everyone was buffed except me. Having a Buffbot is expected now, even though Mythic have probably had complaints saying it's unfair on others that don't have one ,they still ignore them - Why?
Because they want money - like every business in the world, their main aim is to make money.
I've had to upgrade my computer which cost a lot of money, just so I have access to a buffbot, and now I dont even play it. It's ok if you have a good income, but not everybdoy that plays daoc is rich :/

No I'm not QQ'ing, just 'expressing my views'.

 

[Thugs]

You are all agreeing with me for sure.

Say wot you like but you know deep down you are being taken advantage of. I for one am stopping playing this game now.

Level 50 combat would have been a viable alternative for me eventually after I had sorted out my first challenge - to kill Thid infs as a gimped sb. Did that over and over and you could say I am unbeatable if buffed and not far off it unbuffed in Thid. Level 50 now? Back to the state of being buffed yet I endured months of abuse for being so? You want me to post the incredibly vehement tirades posted against me on Freddys because of buffing? Nah enough is enough.

Level 50 and artifacts looks damn interesting and I could well have got involved but all that and the truly awful gains you get from buffs just ruins it. 170 str on my sb unbuffed yet I have talked to some sbs who are hitting 360 or more buffed. All base stats are being improved by over 2x by red buffs and hits are increasing for around 500!

Game needs calming down and the way to get it to work correctly and enjoyably again is the removal of buffing. This just has to occur or I reckon Mythic are going to face a mass exodus from this game soon.

 

[Arethir]

I've always been without buffs, but i don't mind, if i die it doesn't really matter that much, aslong as it's a good fight, and the enemy is not a stupid wanker who runs away or gets out his friends.
Way to many times do i meet hunters or rangers who fire arrows at me, runs away when i come, stealth, and fire more, over and over again, it's just booring and you can't fight like it and have to walk away.

 

[Boggy]

People do not all need BBs. That's an exaggeration and ignores several alternatives.

1) Some healing classes spec buffs secondary. The buffs are slightly less good, but not enough to make winning fights anywhere near impossible.

2) Buffbots can buff more than one player.

For everyone to need BBs, everyone in the game would have to be running solo and refusing to buff others. And in that situation, you should be blaming the players for the need to get a BB, not Mythic.

 

[mudguts]

I for one am stopping playing this game now.

plz plz plz do ... this time .. how many times have u been goin to stop now ?

blah blah sommat about thid blah blah

noone gives a flyin fook

Level 50 and artifacts looks damn interesting and I could well have got involved but all that and the truly awful gains you get from buffs just ruins it. 170 str on my sb unbuffed yet I have talked to some sbs who are hitting 360 or more buffed. All base stats are being improved by over 2x by red buffs and hits are increasing for around 500!

and ? nowadays its a rarity to meet unboofed peeps in 'real' rvr whether its fom bb's or actively played chars.

Game needs calming down and the way to get it to work correctly and enjoyably again is the removal of buffing. This just has to occur or I reckon Mythic are going to face a mass exodus from this game soon.

meaning u went rvr, got your ass handed to ya ....and it can be your fault as you are perfect uke: get a grip dood .

 

[Arid|Disci]

wh0 r0x

 

[Thugs]

Mudguts?

Mud your hatred of me stems from having your arse handed back to you in Thid so ssshhhh now please.

Now that I am concentrating on this topic of needing 2 accounts I can see how Mythic have made me get this additional account from the beginning. Why did I get another account in the first place? Crafting.

One alt - sc'r - another weapon maker - armour maker etc. Wonderful. Eh?

'Can someone help me swap some armour to my alt please' in Aegir.

'Can someone help me swap some armour to my alt please' - again incase they never saw the first message.

Can someone please help me swap some armour to my alt please - just 4 pieces is all?'

Another 5 minutes passes and peeps are all around but nothing.

'CAN SOMEONE HELP ME SWAP STUFF PLEASE?'

Another minute or 2 and nothing.

'F*** it! You bunch of ignorant a*******'. F*** the lot of you'

Eh, that is about how it went and goes if you only got one account. Funny enough the last shouting normally got some response but by then I would be bloody fuming. So I got another account.

We are talking over 2 years ago and the above is still going on yet you can get a shared vault through getting a house? Don't you think that is downright suspicious?

Eh, how many of you levelled unbuffed to 50?

Why is it that the potions only help a small amount yet in other games they can heal you fully? Or there is some other way to heal so you are not sitting on your arse for hours?

All the above and the combat side shows that Mythic have purposely made a 2nd account a 'must have'.

I have a good mind to demand compensation from them and get my money back. I even got an extra base unit to cope with the 2nd account.

I WANT MY BLOODY MONEY BACK YOU ROBBERS!

 

[Arid|Disci]

yer funny

 

[Lubbock]

I dont have a buffbot and dont wanna pay for one and since im the most unl33t person youll ever meet i dont care about getting farmed as long as i get a few good laughs, and if you cant live without a buffbot to make you uber maybe this isnt a game for you, maybe you should explore the wonderfull world of Counterstrike where everyone can be a l33t.

If your problem is paying for 2 account maybe you shoulpd chose not to pay for buffbot account i levelled 4 lvl 50s without a Buffbot or powerlevelling if i can do it anyone can