News Entrance exams for univeristy in UK

[Ormorof]

Good thing or bad thing? seems a lot are now forcing "aptitude" tests on students:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...orced-to-sit-university-admissions-tests.html

personally i like the idea, it would allow A-levels and GCSEs (or whatever they will be called) to be taught to actually teach the subject rather than to try and pass the exam (which is all we did in Sixth form), if you then want to pass the entrance exam you would need to study by yourself or know the subject well enough to get away with it

They have entrance exams here in Finland but the "final" grade is mixed between your High school grades (A-level equivelant) and the entrance exam up to a certain point when it becomes purely entrance exam (i think its after you turn 21 and thus become an "independent" adult legally speaking)

makes a bit of a mockery of the UCAS system though if you have to do the aptitude test anyway

edit: i spelt university wrong - captain fail

 

[Chilly]

Well, UCAS points are based on joke A levels - so the universities need to filter applicants properly, which means custom exams. Seems fair.

 

[Madmaxx]

edit: i spelt university wrong - captain fail

haha

 

[DaGaffer]

Kind of inevitable when everyone leaves school with 15 AAA******++++ grades with added Awesomeness included (+free gift). I note the tests are "aptitude" tests rather than academic subject based tests.

As long as the tests are audit-able to make sure that the likes of Oxbridge aren't just using it as another mechanism to keep out the oiks I don't have a problem with it.

 

[Scouse]

Maybe now we can put paid to the (non)-argument of "are GCSE's getting easier?"

Those of us who started education in the 70's (or earlier) know damn well how fucking dumb the entire country is now - and it's not "rose tinted glasses looking at the past" or "the same is said in every generation" - the youth today are measurably more stupid.

 

[opticle]

As long as the tests are audit-able to make sure that the likes of Oxbridge aren't just using it as another mechanism to keep out the oiks I don't have a problem with it.

By oiks do you mean private vs. state schooled ? Can't blame them for wanting to select the best.. Some of the colleges do pay attention to state-schooled kids more these days in terms of recognising that to do well at a state school (esp some in particular) can take more ability than at a private school.. Only some mind.

With regards to "measurably more stupid" - difficult to properly assess, depends how you define "stupid". A lot of elderly people look stupid trying to use a computer.

..Though you're probably right The natural environment has changed, people don't need to do mental arithmetic any more and have alternatives to reading books etc. etc. - they do other things. They're better at these other things without a doubt

..Whether they have any use in an apocalypse is another question..

Recreational diversions have got more "pointless" with less practical applications I suppose.

 

[Chilly]

Maybe now we can put paid to the (non)-argument of "are GCSE's getting easier?"

Those of us who started education in the 70's (or earlier) know damn well how fucking dumb the entire country is now - and it's not "rose tinted glasses looking at the past" or "the same is said in every generation" - the youth today are measurably more stupid.

Not all of us, and certainly not more stupid than you.

 

[Scouse]

Not all of us, and certainly not more stupid than you.

Awwww. Feeling sore that your qualifications are worthless Chill

/wub

 

[Jeros]

Cambs at least already has them.

 

[Raven]

People are stupid but that has nothing to do with education quality, it's a problem of society. People just don't have any common sense any more. Nobody questions anything fed to them by TV, trashy newspapers/magazines or idiotic websites like the BBC.

Nobody has any practical skills, how many people can fix a leaking tap or change/fit a door lock (for example?)

 

[ileks]

Good idea imo.

I had to do an exam called STEP (maths) to get into uni which was brutal. They should do the same for all science type subjects.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

People are stupid but that has nothing to do with education quality, it's a problem of society. People just don't have any common sense any more. Nobody questions anything fed to them by TV, trashy newspapers/magazines or idiotic websites like the BBC.

Nobody has any practical skills, how many people can fix a leaking tap or change/fit a door lock (for example?)

It's a generation thing the last one sadly, my dad's dad taught him loads of stuff, I only know a couple of basic bits but wish I knew how to do basic plumbing, some more DIY shizzle etc.

 

[Talivar]

If their was Youtube out in the 70s im pretty sure people wouldnt be so quick to say the youth of today are more stupid

 

[Aoami]

One of my mums best mates 'accidentally' petrol bombed a police station in the 70s. I don't know anyone in my generation who did that.

 

[rynnor]

the youth today are measurably more stupid.

No - the problem is there's no longer a way to distinguish the bright ones from the crowd - if everyone who would have got Cs now get A* you cant differentiate those who would have gotten A's under the old system.

That creates a problem for Uni's as they need a new way to sort the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Zarjazz]

That does have a lot to do with it. The education system today is scared to tell parents "your kid isn't smart enough to get an A grade", and the whole school ratings system doesn't help. It encourages a lower of the grading scale to artificially make the exam statistics look better every year. If the trend continues I expect in a few years time 115% of all student to get an A* on their Maths papers.

 

[Jeros]

May the gods of Reddit forgive me for posting 9GAG

 

[Chilly]

Awwww. Feeling sore that your qualifications are worthless Chill

/wub

Shrug, I've got a scientific degree, perhaps the most useful and flexible around! I have no e-peen issues

 

[Scouse]

Shrug, I've got a scientific degree, perhaps the most useful and flexible around! I have no e-peen issues

Science FTW tbfh

No

Disagree.

It is tempting to fall into that trap - but think of it this way. Exams are easy. They're all getting A****. There's not enough of the hard questions to diferrentiate between the best and the brightest.

The brightest could do the hard questions (if they were given them) - it may make them sweat a little - but they can do them. The next brightest can pick up a few marks on those questions, the less bright can't - but can pick up lots of marks on the questions that the retards can't do.

Retards are retards and fail.


Once you remove that range of difficulty then nobody is challenged. And challenging kids is important in the development of decent mental faculties.


Foundation years were becoming the norm as I was finishing my final year at Uni. The specified reason was that the A-Level syllabus wasn't challenging enough - so the kids were coming to university with amazing grades but an inability to solve what, for 1st year uni, were, for example, basic maths questions.

They'd never seen them at A-level - though they used to be there - because they were tricky and therefore removed from the syllabus.

The standard of pass grades goes up, the level of attainment goes down. It has to be that way to get the uniformity of grades - and it's a complete dumbing-down of the population.

You only have to talk to a bunch of kids to understand how "simple" they are. Not just naive - but lacking the basics that you took for granted going into University a decade or so ago...

 

[opticle]

Having recently been removed from "a bunch of kids", I can say the above doesn't apply to moi - but then again, I had to teach myself in class because the next best grades below mine in Maths/Physics were D's

It's all very well saying "Exams are easy, everyone gets A's, wtf" - but there's still a lot of shit out there, with bright kids being brought down by it because schools aren't allowed to stream kids by ability any more.

The pic above says it all. I had good teachers but they weren't in an environment that really enabled them to teach anything above moderate difficulty.

 

[Scouse]

I don't disagree opticle. It's not the kids fault - but the results are all too plain to see, unfortunately

 

[Talivar]

I dont think its really that the exams are easier, its more the fact they teach you now just how to pass that assignment or exam. It means many come away with no deeper or wider understanding of the topic they learned and struggle to answer anything other than the exact questions they had been given. This is often made worse by fact many are helped to create perfect answers which they just memorise and then forget after the exam is over. This is done by showing them previous exam papers and telling them which questions always appear.

 

[DaGaffer]

I dont think its really that the exams are easier, its more the fact they teach you now just how to pass that assignment or exam. It means many come away with no deeper or wider understanding of the topic they learned and struggle to answer anything other than the exact questions they had been given. This is often made worse by fact many are helped to create perfect answers which they just memorise and then forget after the exam is over. This is done by showing them previous exam papers and telling them which questions always appear.

Nah, they always did that. Don't let anyone tell you there was a halcyon past where everyone got a deep understanding of a broad subject; it was always about studying for the exam; its just that the exam itself was simply harder. And this isn't recent; its been an ongoing process for 30-40 years, not just the last 10. When I did my A-Levels (late 80s) I looked at papers from as far back as the sixties and you could already see the dumbing down going on back then, and its simply continued.

There's actually a relatively simple fix; mark on a curve not individually (like SATs in the US); that would get rid of the need for star grades and all that shite and give a true reflection of where you stand versus your peers, which is actually all you need A-Levels for; to get the best place you can at Uni, where you're supposed to start to understand, rather than just parrot your subjects. (I'd also get rid of A-Levels altogether and move to a Baccalaureate-style setup, but that's probably a step too far for the UK).

 

[Talivar]

I think they need to start to put much more focus on vocational and practical skills in Degrees. Recently i have done a lot of promotional work at the local job centre and i have lost count of the people coming in with Degrees in a wide range of topics who do not know how to communicate and fall apart at the interview stage, many even seem to struggle at doing presentations in front of others ( which is something a degree is supposed to teach ).

 

[opticle]

There's actually a relatively simple fix; mark on a curve not individually (like SATs in the US); that would get rid of the need for star grades and all that shite and give a true reflection of where you stand versus your peers, which is actually all you need A-Levels for; to get the best place you can at Uni, where you're supposed to start to understand, rather than just parrot your subjects.

I've never liked curves - how do you compare year-on-year ? It risks side-lining bright kids, particularly if they ever actually improve the school system.

The worst exams I remember sitting were the "The top 20% get A, the next get B..etc etc" - which is what a lot of the A-level exams actually do (or at least did several years back.. Christ I got old ) - because if you have a shit year, they still end up with a *lot* of A's. Which is what we have now. There's a lot of kids out there, the top 20% is a big number and probably partly responsible for the "Everyone has A's" line.

Isn't it better to have absolute standards that are well defined and controlled (and harder) to stretch people and spread out the distribution ? Plus extension exams to separate the exceptional kids (and stratify them too).