England V Ecuador

[SAS]

England (probable): Robinson; Hargreaves, Ferdinand, Terry, A Cole; Beckham, Gerrard, Carrick, Lampard, J Cole; Rooney.

4-5-1?

Mind you with the weather forcasted for 37 degrees. Only two strikers to use and neville still injuried we are forced to 4-5-1?

 

[Thornbeard]

With Gerrard/Lampard not having to worry about protecting the back 4 they can get up to support Roonie, lets hope it works out

 

[mank!]

carrick isn't a holding midfielder, certainly not in the same mould as hargreaves was against sweden. hargreaves was also awful at right-back in the friendlies.

therefore, we be fucked.

 

[JingleBells]

Aye, Hargreaves showed against Sweden that if you play him in the right position, he can actually play well, anywhere else and he can't.

I personally don't think you can accomodate Lampard & Gerrard in the same midfield, and Rooney on his own will be interesting, as at United he likes to drop back and start moves, with a proper striker ahead of him.

I read somewhere the press are already looking for a scapegoat for Englands failure, and to me that's a job that takes longer to say than think about, Sven-Goran Eriksson.

 

[Aada]

England (probable): Robinson; Hargreaves, Ferdinand, Terry, A Cole; Beckham, Gerrard, Carrick, Lampard, J Cole; Rooney.

4-5-1?

Mind you with the weather forcasted for 37 degrees. Only two strikers to use and neville still injuried we are forced to 4-5-1?

Stupid sven shouldn't have dropped Defoe.

And why the hell is he playing Rooney.. sorry but Rooney will not be his best for the WC after injury.. lets hope he doesn't get re-injured like Owen eh?

 

[rynnor]

4-5-1?

This is known as the 'England doesnt score' formation - Rooney is great but without support he cant shine and with the variability of our defense we cant rely on 1 goal to win v a side like Ecuador...

 

[Bugz]

England (probable): Robinson; Hargreaves, Ferdinand, Terry, A Cole; Beckham, Gerrard, Carrick, Lampard, J Cole; Rooney.

4-5-1?

Mind you with the weather forcasted for 37 degrees. Only two strikers to use and neville still injuried we are forced to 4-5-1?

Personally, I'd place Lennon in there somewhere. Without two main strikers, we will lose alot of up-front speed, Lennon can make up for this somewhat.

 

[Unleashed]

Sven is a **** and is doing his best to screw us over!

 

[Calaen]

I'll check back on this thread after England Beat Ecuador tommorow and see what you are all saying then. I think Sven is a cock but I believe that under the conditions (weather, and squad) he is making a very good move.

With Carrick in midfield Gerard and Lampard should be able to play with the freedom that they show in their club matches. With no Crouch up front Beckham and the rest of the long ball lovers will be forced to play a short ball to feet game which suits Rooney.

Lets all talk about how shit his decisions are after the match. I have no problems with the start (I would have liked to see Lennon in somewhere) however Sven always seems to fall short with his Subs. Lets hope he gives Lennon and Walcott a run out in the 2nd half!!!!

 

[Ch3tan]

Yep Cal, it's like they are sucking in everything the media says.

 

[SAS]

The formation is good mainly due to the heat factor? 40 degrees has now been predicted. If Ecuador with 2 strikes keep on attacking and our midfield absorbs this as much has possible, hopefully they will tire themselves out leaving us with easier setpieces, and weaknesses to exploit in the second half?

 

[mank!]

it's far too late in the day to be changing system and personnel so drastically.

the 4-5-1 tactic only works when you have very attacking wingers who get upto support the lone striker - i.e. robben and van persie for holland - and both cole and beckham are certainly neither, beckham can't even beat a player.

rooney isn't at 100% fitness and even if he was, asking him to play the lone striker role in this sort of heat is completely foolish, he'll be dead on his feet by half-time.

the most sensible thing to do would be to persue with the same team that started the sweden game - crouch in for owen obviously - and go from there.

if we beat ecuador today it will be in spite of sven, not because of him.

 

[Stimpy]

To use a common footballer phrase... "at the end of the day" the players we will have out on the pitch compared to Ecuador we should walk this game and no matter what formation Sven decides to go with I know it will be the players I'll hold responsible and not the manager if we screw it up today.

 

[Nedo]

hi 2 u lucky England! :What a crap game for a deciding game in world championship

 

[throdgrain]

Lucky???

 

[Stimpy]

hi 2 u lucky England! :What a crap game for a deciding game in world championship

Thanks for that insightful analysis.

 

[Calaen]

well now we can comment

Not dangerous at all in the first half but you could see with Carrick holding Gerrard played with alot more freedom, Lampard is till under performing in my eyes but he did enough. Carrick was exceptional and Hargreaves done exactly what he was there for tracked their winger up and down the pitch. Joe Cole was average and tbh Beckahm did squat all else (but thats what you get sometimes from good players and then they pop up and do something great). Rooney, great for England that he played 90 minutes tbh I was shitting myself when Sven was going to make changes because Bridges and Crouch was not the answer. Lennon proved again in his few minutes he is a great asset to us I just hope Sven gives him more time on the pitch if Beckham isnt pulling his weight.

So all in all the game was watchable and we could have had another goal atleast, lets hope the players step it up again in the next match.

I do worry whether we can contain Ronaldo, Simao, Van Persie and Robben when we come up against either opponent in the next round though fingers crossed Ashley Cole has a good game against Ronaldo, something he does struggle to do :-( in the premiership.

 

[Nedo]

Lucky???

What did they produce apart from that free kick? both teams played crap imo.

 

[Nedo]

Thanks for that insightful analysis.

Its last 16 in a world championship...Gerrard cant place a pass to a guy that is 10m away, should be able to ask for mor when it comes to last 16 teams in world?

Swe played utter crap but at least they got knocked out. England played crap but manage to move on....imo that is lucky.

 

[rynnor]

Unconvincing but they got the result - I still think they'll struggle for goals if they continue with one up front - we cant just live off of Beckams free kicks...

Rooney sometimes looked good and other times looked slow - we are expecting a lot from a guy who's not match fit...

 

[Gat_Decor]

Its last 16 in a world championship...Gerrard cant place a pass to a guy that is 10m away, should be able to ask for mor when it comes to last 16 teams in world?

Swe played utter crap but at least they got knocked out.

Ahh a disgruntled Swede who's team played worse than a Sunday League pub team and got knocked out of the Competition.

England played crap but manage to move on....imo that is lucky.

No that's doing enough to go through to the next round.

 

[leggy]

At the end of the day it's the result that counts. Unfortunately it was a bit of an uninspiring performance all round. From both teams. It really doesnt matter now though. Quarter finals time.

From my p.o.v. I thought England were at least creating good chances this time round. A massive improvement over the last 3 matches. Shame they couldn't finish them.

 

[mank!]

well that was about as convincing as dale winton pleading his heterosexuality.

good teams win and get results when it matters, but i still can't see england as a good side. holland or portugal will rip us apart in the quarter finals unless there is wholesale improvements throughout the side.

i hope gary neville's back as well.

 

[DaGaffer]

Its last 16 in a world championship...Gerrard cant place a pass to a guy that is 10m away, should be able to ask for mor when it comes to last 16 teams in world?

Swe played utter crap but at least they got knocked out. England played crap but manage to move on....imo that is lucky.

Sweden hardly had a sniff all game against Germany (apart from the penalty they didn't deserve), you can't say that about England; they deserved the win. Ecuador were pretty uninspiring, but you have to play the opposition you get.

One thing, if I was a ref and any player came up to me waving an imaginary yellow card, they'd be the ones who got booked; I had a lot of goodwill towards Germany until all that shit, and far too many players are doing it.

 

[SAS]

Better performance than last 3 games, but still not hitting full form. Although Beckham scored, what was up with him in the second half? Cameras kept panning over to him as he bent over looking exhaused?

Fair enough the heat would of been a factor, but still worrying. Ecuador had 3 fresh players who were rested from the Germany game, but they still did not really threaten England (apart from that shot that rebounded off the crossbar). Tactics paided off this time, but with just Rooney up front we surely can't play high level football against teams further into the competition?

And beware of people hiding near doorways with a mic, I got caught by a local radio station grrr :/

 

[Furr]

Sposidly becham threw up, probably why they were panning over to him.

 

[mank!]

The main problem is that our defence seems inept at the moment, completely unable to deal with crosses/long-balls into the area and the communication between goalkeeper and defender is almost non-existent.

Rooney was too isolated up front, despite working his bollocks off he had absolutely no support most of the time and without players around him he's rendered mostly ineffective. Ecuador didn't need to bother man-marking him because we pretty much ruled him out the game ourselves.

For our supposed world-class midfield, it's baffling how some of them seem incapable of playing alongside each other. Gerrard and Lampard simply cannot play in the same side - holding midfielder or without - and given Lampard's terrible finishing I'd drop him instead of Gerrard. Beckham works hard but is mostly useless, his only attribute being his deadball and set piece ability which has been hugely variable. However, I'd keep him in the team because without him we may not have beaten both Paraguay and Ecuador.

The right-back situation is difficult, Carragher and Hargreaves offer entirely contrasting options with Carragher being solid defensively but has awful distribution and can't attack whereas Hargreaves isn't the best defensively but supports Beckham much more. Hopefully this issue will be solved and Neville will return in time for the next game, as Beckham and Neville have an understanding, the importance of which is mostly understated.

I understand and accept that we won today but I do not believe it's got anything to do with the formation we played and feel that in order to get the best out of players we need to revert to a simple 4-4-2.

                 Robinson

Neville    Ferdinand    Terry    A Cole

Beckham    Hargreaves   Gerrard  J Cole

           Rooney       Crouch

If Neville's out, then it's got to be Carragher as the right-back will have to deal with either Figo/C. Ronaldo or Robben/Van Persie and I doubt Hargreaves' would cope sufficiently with an attacking onslaught.

Hargreaves would allow Gerrard to play in a more similar role to the one he plays at Liverpool, hopefully playing to his strengths and giving him the creative freedom which he thrives on.

Joe Cole has probably been our best player so far and has finally proved himself the answer to the problematic left-midfield question, though not a natural left-winger he's by far our best option in that position.

Rooney would have some freedom to roam and with Crouch alongside him, he knows there's a man in the box. Hopefully, although I'm not sure if Crouch is capable of doing it, he can control the ball in the box a bit and open up space for others. I'm still convinced that he'd scare the shit out of some defenders if he put on a stone or two and stopped looking like Timmy.

Lennon should be used more often as an impact player, along with Lampard if the game isn't going the right way. The Argentina v Mexico game last night proved the importance of substitutions, the additions of Tevez and Messi late on gave them the impetus to take the game to the Mexicans who couldn't replace the flagging Borgetti and Fonseca.

Otherwise, they should be spending the next week practicing defensive set pieces because we're fucking shite at them.

edit: Beckham said after the game he wasn't feeling well beforehand, he threw up after he scored. Apparently Zidane did the same after he scored against England in Euro 2004. I've also seen players at Swindon do it, but that's because most of our team are pissheads and are usually hungover on Saturday...

 

[Platin]

England didn't play crap, they played ok, but alot of miscommunication and the defense and the mid-field (small mistakes almost fecked em up) wasn't exactly at their best. But if England is gonna pass next round, they better work on their passing and defense.

Since Sweden is out, go England, go Sven! :england:

 

[Bodhi]

As a neutral I gotta say that was the worst game of football in the World Cup so far. Both teams looked spectacularly inept at times, Ecuador looked like exactly the same team that Germany humped 3-0 and England looked worse than the team that drew 2-2 with Sweden. It was one of those games both teams deserved to go out so they can't inflict any more of their tedium on the rest of the world. The post-match analysis summed it up for me - first highlight was the goal, the second was Beckham throwing up.

 

[Ardas Nails]

^^ well that was sure neutral Bodhi, from your arse type of neutral

No way was that the worst game of football in the world cup so far, no idea where you got that from unless that was the only game you have watched?

England also performed much better than in any of the previous group games. They weren't brilliant but was definitely an improvment.