Education & second languages.

[Wazzerphuk]

Don't get me started on this, it's far too much like my English degree I just finished - it's a VERY complex situation. But yes, we are apathetic and ignorant when it comes to dealing with other languages..

 

[gunner440]

The issue is for some parts of the UK, a lot of people cannot even begin to learn English. In fact a large percentage of England have British as there Second Language (or 3rd)

I see little to no point having people learn a second language when they cannot grasp English which, in some cases, should be there first language.

To be honest, I learned German and Spainish, I remember a tiny amount of both, enough to get me by. I use neither for work. As I've gotten older I feel I want to learn Japanese and have taken courses in that.

How you finding it Fuzzy?

GCSE English: Confusions - there, their and they're

Oh and it's SPANISH.

 

[MYstIC G]

Don't get me started on this, it's far too much like my English degree I just finished - it's a VERY complex situation. But yes, we are apathetic and ignorant when it comes to dealing with other languages..

Except when we're working for local authorities printing leaflets...

 

[throdgrain]

I own my own chop-sticks, but the girl at the Japanese take-away speaks better Dutch than I can so my grasp of the language is pish :/

GEEK!!!

 

[Dreamor]

GCSE English: Confusions - there, their and they're

Oh and it's SPANISH.

oh noes, you got me

 

[old.Tohtori]

England, where history comes from!

Eddie Izzard über alles.

Yes but...did you invent the flag?

 

[haarewin]

People who study Japanese are almost always geeks who like Nintendo.

And who own thier own chopsticks.

just an fyi, i have a nintendo ds, and was bought a gift of 4 sets of chopsticks.
i wish i could prove you wrong but i cant help it!

 

[SilverHood]

I often get "wow, it must be cool to speak 2 languages". And it is.
But I was learning english in school from when I was 8 years old, 3 one hour lessons a week. That's about as much english as I did when I moved to a school in England.

To take Denmark as an example. You finish school when you're 15/16. You go to college for 3 years. You study either a mathematical line of subjects, a language line, or occasionally, a mix. For the mathematical line, you study whatever sciences you want, as well as Danish, English AND one other foreign language, usually German. For the linguistic line, you study Danish, English, German and 2 (possibly 3) foreign languages. It used to be French, Spanish and Italian, but not so sure anymore. And then some technical subjects.

Anyway, the point is, people in England start early enough, but they stop too soon. And they're not pushed hard enough. I was expected to write essays in german by the end of my first year of study in Denmark. It was never a requirement for GCSE or A-levle german. Just stuff like, order a cup of coffee, a hotel room, say thank you and ask for the receptionists number. Useful, but not quite speaking another language.

And the advantage with knowing two languages.... learning a 3rd is easy. The 4th is even easier. However, when you know spanish french and italian as foreign languages, it can get messy when drunk!

 

[throdgrain]

just an fyi, i have a nintendo ds, and was bought a gift of 4 sets of chopsticks.
i wish i could prove you wrong but i cant help it!

/ticks off another geek

 

[DaGaffer]

Anyway, the point is, people in England start early enough, but they stop too soon. And they're not pushed hard enough. I was expected to write essays in german by the end of my first year of study in Denmark. It was never a requirement for GCSE or A-levle german. Just stuff like, order a cup of coffee, a hotel room, say thank you and ask for the receptionists number. Useful, but not quite speaking another language.

Actually I don't think kids do start early enough; most people don't start languages until 11, ideally, short of having bilingual parents, they should be starting in junior school or even nursery - its actually been proved that this is when your language center, more than any other part of brain development, is at its most receptive.

And the advantage with knowing two languages.... learning a 3rd is easy. The 4th is even easier. However, when you know spanish french and italian as foreign languages, it can get messy when drunk!

Absolutely. My ex did French and German at Uni and she found Spanish to be a piece of piss when she learned it afterwards; although I don't necessarily think that learning say, Japanese or Cantonese would be that much easier even with 2-3 European languages under your belt.

 

[swords]

Oh course we invented the flag Toht! :england: <-- this is a historical representation of the very first flag, created by a little known english monarch, went by the name of smiley kickyouinthenutsandstealyourstuff.

 

[nath]

although I don't necessarily think that learning say, Japanese or Cantonese would be that much easier even with 2-3 European languages under your belt.

Well Cantonese is going to be tricky anyway you slice it but Japanese may not be so hard since it's atonal. As I understand, if you have a slightly dodgy accent people will still understand you. However with Cantonese/Mandarin if you pronounce things slightly wrong you could end up saying completely different things.

 

[Dukat]

I've just started learning Japanese (I have a nintendo but no chopsticks throd), I have to say its bloody interesting so far.

I've always thought of second languages as something that only straight-A students and people with too much time on thier hands learn. However, I always find myself getting really jealous when I see someone go from talking english to one person to talking another language to someone else.

I tried learning french at highschool, but with all due respect to the french, the country, language and people piss me off so much I just lost all heart in it. all this la and le crap did my nut in, I mean HOW THE FUCK CAN A DOOR BE MALE OR FEMALE?!!!?!

Obviously there are similar irregularities and quirks in english, but because its currently my only fluent language I'm not able to see them as easily. No doubt I'll encounter other strangeness in japanese(the 5-level verbs seem a little complicated), but because I am very interested in the country anyway there is an underlying reason and motivation to learn the language, where as with french there was no real motivation to learn it, and no real reason either.

fuzzy-san to dreamor-san, nihongo wa dou desu ka?

I cant believe it, I actually managed to understand this!!

How long did it take you to become confident with the language Haarenwin?

with Cantonese/Mandarin if you pronounce things slightly wrong you could end up saying completely different things.

Hehe yea I heard that, arent "buy" and "sell" different only in pitch or something?

 

[Jonty]

Hehe yea I heard that, arent "buy" and "sell" different only in pitch or something?

Yeah, that's right In Mandarin Chinese 買 mǎi (buy) 賣 mài (sell) differ only in their tone. Although it's a little difficult at first, the context usually makes things clear and people are usually very encouraging and forgiving if you make the effort (plus Mandarin 'only' has 4 or 5 tones, whereas Cantonese has 6-10 depending on how you count).

To be honest, I really enjoy learning Mandarin. I think it's a useful language to know, especially for business, and it's also full of history which makes it more interesting to learn. However, I agree that starting when you're young is important (our ability to quickly grasp another language soon fades, and after 16 we're supposedly unable to learn without an accent). I guess a natural ability also helps (I have a friend who knows Mandarin, Taiwanese, Japanese, English, French, German, and Italian ...).

Kind regards

Jonty

P.S. If you know a little about Chinese culture, see this funny comparison with Germany

 

[haarewin]

I cant believe it, I actually managed to understand this!!

How long did it take you to become confident with the language Haarenwin?

I've been studying it since February. I've been able to read and write all the Hiragana and Katakana since March. I think that learning the Kana has made me much more confident in the language than if I hadn't learned them. In June I was too worried to talk to a Japanese person - I met POLYSICS, but chickened out just saying 'Hajimemashite, Nikku desu!' instead of attempting to tell them they were amazing or something - for fear of making a mortal mistake or just not understanding them, but in September I was doing my "homework" in a café and a Japanese girl spoke to me, and I got along fine. We e-mail eachother now If you are going to talk to Japanese people, make sure you can say 'Sumimasen, sukoshi nihongo o wakarimasu.' (sorry, I only understand a little bit of Japanese) and 'eto... wakarimasen!'. (ummmmmm, I dont understand!). Most Japanese people are very forgiving of mistakes, just because you are making the effort.
I've joined a language exchange website and found a forum that students of Japanese/Jpop freaks use, just to get in some extra practice.
The great thing about learning online (and using firefox) is an add-on called 'rikaichan' which lets you hover over words and defines them for you, and gives the reading in Hiragana. So even if you come across something you don't understand, or there are Kanji you can't read, you can learn the readings and the definitions.
I wasn't even this passionate about my degree. I should have done Japanese at Uni instead