Economy on high population servers

[Sharkith]

Hi folks,

I noticed a big difference on Avalon with respect to the economy, scrolls are a lot cheaper although some scrolls seem a bit expensive given they are relatively easy to farm. I got the whole of Malice Axe book for around 400 gold for example.

What are your experiences of the situation over there? This goes for other servers too btw I am just curious about the effects of population on the economy.

Sharkith

 

[swords]

Some items are wierdly overpriced I noticed, seeing several DS dex rings on CMs all for 10+ plat without any selling would seem to me that noone knows about 'supply and demand'

 

[Calmin]

Some items are wierdly overpriced I noticed, seeing several DS dex rings on CMs all for 10+ plat without any selling would seem to me that noone knows about 'supply and demand'

Thats not a bad price....we did countless DS runs and didnt get any of those and its not uncommon for that item to be in a lot of classes templates....so i think you can feel easy that it will sell eventually....we ended up buying ours afterall!

Lyonesse seems more pricey to me, well atleast initially until prices even out between servers

 

[Everz]

US servers = 30p for love story/mad tales books etc due to plat buying being so easy and cheap..

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Should be due to yanks being stupid.

 

[Stallion]

Well first off with a higher population, this means you have more people active in the PvE areas. The amount of scrolls & items will also increase. But with the higher population the demand is also higher, so you could say supply and demand both increase proportionaly, leaving you with the same price level as on lower populated servers but with a higher quantity traded. But with the observation you made about prices actully beeing lower, this theory does not tell the whole story. Its part of the story but you need to look on how the income effect and substitution effect work.

If you would look at say the PvErs (that is those that supply the items & scrolls) they are the actuall producers. What is beeing produced is also sold to a certain price, what is their cost? Its the time spent, what could they have done insteed (thus this is their opportunity cost). I belive close to 0 daoc players are aware of this or think as economists, what you have is people farming stuff, they might actully not sell, or have to lower the price on to sell. Thus we have a excess of supply, because we produce items/scrolls that we think we earn plats on. Or simply, you come over it by an accident (like raids etc). Making any price a profit for them, their real profit was the arti credit or ml credit. This means we have an imperfect market, the suppliers are not aware of the cost, so they will produce at any price and at any cost. But with a restricted amount of time on their hands, the more time consuming items will be priced higher. So they are actully aware of it, but not fully. This is what I did when I wanted to get my economy on UK cluster started. Checked what I could farm, checked the market prices for the items, checked aprox how much of the item(s) I could get within the time frame I wanted to farm. Took the quantity x price (lower then market price) divided by amount of hours. Giving me a rough idea of how to get the higher profit possible in the smallest amount of time. This ofcourse can be overlooked if you love PvE, I dont! =)

The income effect: how much money do we have, and how much stuff can we buy. Question is, how much do we need? Most people play this game around a few characters, I would say majority maybe template and sort 1-4 characters? This means we dont need all that stuff that is actully supplied, and the cash we have we spend for 1-4 characters. This leads to a limited demand, even thou the population is high, I doubt the demand is as high as the supply since the majority of the stuff supplied, does not have a matching buyer. Which in turn leads to suppliers lowering their prices to compete for those buyers.

The substitution effect: Do I use GoV or nailahs, erinys or tablet. Im quite sure you all saw the drop in prices for battler/malice scrolls when they introduced champion weapons? Thing is, if prices tend to go to high up, we want to switch to something that can do the same job but maybe not as good, we substitute it. Leaving those highly priced items unsold and less expensive (less time consuming to farm) bought. Also meaning we have a slightly different looking demand curve. Both the income effect, substitution effect and the fact that the supply is unaware of any opportunity cost or any cost at all, leads to a higher supply and thus lower price.

 

[Basic_X]

The prices on Midgard/Kilisbury is fkn insane, never seen so high prices before tbh. (but then again, im making lots of cash selling my pots with EU prices, i have to resuply my CM every day )
the only thing that's cheap is powerpots (14g a draught and i still dont sell mutch of them)

 

[Cromcruaich]

Some key items more expensive, majority of stuff cheaper. This simply because while farming for those small number of key items, other stuff drops in abundance - can see this classically demonstrated in the price of kraken and levi drops against those same prices on Duvet.

 

[Calmin]

Wonder what subject Staj is learning at college right now?

 

[NeLSoN]

Everything is 20% more expensive to me in hz

 

[Maeloch]

Can't say noticed any wild differences. ToA rogs are more expensive, if u plan on kitting out lowbies in em. Volume of stuff traded mean chances of getting lucky bargins on stuff put up inappropriately low seem higher - have gotten some real bargins for under 100gp several times now. Lots and lots of rings of torrent, nimbus strands and stuff like that under 100gp too for kitting out alts, 40+ toons, etc.

 

[Cromcruaich]

Can't say noticed any wild differences. ToA rogs are more expensive, if u plan on kitting out lowbies in em. Volume of stuff traded mean chances of getting lucky bargins on stuff put up inappropriately low seem higher - have gotten some real bargins for under 100gp several times now. Lots and lots of rings of torrent, nimbus strands and stuff like that under 100gp too for kitting out alts, 40+ toons, etc.

Yea, toa rogs ridiculous prices, i sell all my stuff around salvage price on duvet, on ava your lucky to get shitty rogs under 400g.

 

[Calmin]

Yea, toa rogs ridiculous prices, i sell all my stuff around salvage price on duvet, on ava your lucky to get shitty rogs under 400g.

Sounds like NFD are going to be the new Rog Lords of Avalon!

 

[Jarahl]

Well first off with a higher population, this means you have more people active in the PvE areas. The amount of scrolls & items will also increase. But with the higher population the demand is also higher, so you could say supply and demand both increase proportionaly, leaving you with the same price level as on lower populated servers but with a higher quantity traded. But with the observation you made about prices actully beeing lower, this theory does not tell the whole story. Its part of the story but you need to look on how the income effect and substitution effect work.

If you would look at say the PvErs (that is those that supply the items & scrolls) they are the actuall producers. What is beeing produced is also sold to a certain price, what is their cost? Its the time spent, what could they have done insteed (thus this is their opportunity cost). I belive close to 0 daoc players are aware of this or think as economists, what you have is people farming stuff, they might actully not sell, or have to lower the price on to sell. Thus we have a excess of supply, because we produce items/scrolls that we think we earn plats on. Or simply, you come over it by an accident (like raids etc). Making any price a profit for them, their real profit was the arti credit or ml credit. This means we have an imperfect market, the suppliers are not aware of the cost, so they will produce at any price and at any cost. But with a restricted amount of time on their hands, the more time consuming items will be priced higher. So they are actully aware of it, but not fully. This is what I did when I wanted to get my economy on UK cluster started. Checked what I could farm, checked the market prices for the items, checked aprox how much of the item(s) I could get within the time frame I wanted to farm. Took the quantity x price (lower then market price) divided by amount of hours. Giving me a rough idea of how to get the higher profit possible in the smallest amount of time. This ofcourse can be overlooked if you love PvE, I dont! =)

The income effect: how much money do we have, and how much stuff can we buy. Question is, how much do we need? Most people play this game around a few characters, I would say majority maybe template and sort 1-4 characters? This means we dont need all that stuff that is actully supplied, and the cash we have we spend for 1-4 characters. This leads to a limited demand, even thou the population is high, I doubt the demand is as high as the supply since the majority of the stuff supplied, does not have a matching buyer. Which in turn leads to suppliers lowering their prices to compete for those buyers.

The substitution effect: Do I use GoV or nailahs, erinys or tablet. Im quite sure you all saw the drop in prices for battler/malice scrolls when they introduced champion weapons? Thing is, if prices tend to go to high up, we want to switch to something that can do the same job but maybe not as good, we substitute it. Leaving those highly priced items unsold and less expensive (less time consuming to farm) bought. Also meaning we have a slightly different looking demand curve. Both the income effect, substitution effect and the fact that the supply is unaware of any opportunity cost or any cost at all, leads to a higher supply and thus lower price.

Thats basicly the subject of about 2 classes when I was in college

 

[Zede]

Everything seems cheaper across the board on hib/ava.

Many arti scroll books 500g or less, i got eternal plant book for 90g !

 

[swords]

Well when theres 7 DS dex rings up for grabs with 3 at 10P (one was 9.999P! cheeky) I always wonder what the people putting them on for 17 and 20P are thinking...

 

[Golena]

Well when theres 7 DS dex rings up for grabs with 3 at 10P (one was 9.999P! cheeky) I always wonder what the people putting them on for 17 and 20P are thinking...

Probably the same as me when i've done stuff like this in the past.. It's a drop that I might want to use on one of my characters. If I stick it on the CM for 5p over the market value then if the cheaper stuff sells out I might get a desperate buyer forking out for it. If it doesn't sell then i'll use it later, if it does sell i'll buy it back 5p cheaper when I need it.

I imagine with regards to price/population the higher the population, the bigger the gap will be between cheap stuff and expensive stuff.
Cheap stuff is normally cheap because more of it is produced than needed, meaning the price is constantly dropping as people try to undercut each other until it reaches a value it's not actually worth selling it for anymore (selling scrolls that no-one needs for 1c just uses up CM space which could be used for more valuable items etc so the cheapest might be 5g which is a value where actually taking the time to put it there instead of shift-D'ing it is worthwhile.)
The expensive stuff is expensive because there's more people wanting it than there is items available. As the population goes up eventually you'll reach a point where no more are being produced due to spawn times, but more people need it. You'll also find with more people more money is actually produced since more mobs get killed and drop cash/salvage gear. Since the money isn't spread evenly but tends to get clustered around the few farmers, these people get silly amounts of money they are prepared to spend on getting the rare items.

Yelling 10p is way too expensive for a DS ring might make sense until you look at how long it would take you to farm the DS ring versus how long you could make 10p going out and scroll/DF farming. Back when Chan drops were still expensive paying 30p for a gov book made sense because I could farm 30p worth of items of chan much faster than I could farm the scrolls in Aerus. For someone without a focus class that did have a char that could kill cyclops's fast this wouldn't be the case. Different people with different chars will always be able to farm different mobs at a different speed, which is why the market is normally so active.

 

[Ballard]

US servers = 30p for love story/mad tales books etc due to plat buying being so easy and cheap..

thats a bit of a generalisation. For example on alb merlin love story etc tends to go for about 3p. Mid on most clusters seems to be quite expenisive however, perhaps due to alot of moderna pl/plat farming but not so much scroll farming.

 

[Saje]

thats a bit of a generalisation. For example on alb merlin love story etc tends to go for about 3p. Mid on most clusters seems to be quite expenisive however, perhaps due to alot of moderna pl/plat farming but not so much scroll farming.

well its not true what he says, i bought all my arti books for upcoming shammy, and didnt use more than 10 plat on em.