DW/CD vs CS calc

Vodkafairy

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Ehm since I'm bored and thinking of respeccing my ns I made some calculations about different specs, can anyone (Pin or so :D) take a look and see if these are correct? :>

If they are, it proves cd > cs in pure melee.

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Weapon style caps - rounded down

-((Growth Rate * Weapon Spec) * Effective Speed) / Unstyled Damage Cap

-(calculated using a 4.1 speed mainhand weapon, with 250+ qui, and 20% druid haste)

(spec/cap mainhand damage/growth rate)

::50+15 cd skill
Squall 292 0.59

Blinding Rain 331 0.88
Blizzard 336 0.92

::39+15 cs skill
garrote 298 0.75
achilles heel 330 1.03

hamstring 343 1.15
leaper 363 1.33

::50+15 dw skill
dual shadows 320 0.80

dark tendrils 333 0.90
dragonfang 327 0.85

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Average Dual Wield Damage - different specs

Actual DW = 25+(DW skill * .68)+(dual ref. lvl * 3)

I have dr1

-> (dw chance * dw dmg) + (non dw chance * non dw damage)

-> dw chance * (mainhand cap damage + offhand cap damage) + (1 - dw chance) * mainhand damage

50+15 cd | dr1 = 72.2%
-> 0.722 * (320 + 158) + (1-0.722) * 320 = 434 avg max swing dmg

12+15 cd | dr1 = 36.16%
-> 0.3616 * (333 + 158) + (1-0.3616) * 333 = 390 avg max swing dmg

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Average Weapon Speed - different specs | dw speed = 1.7856 | mainspeed = 2.0336

4.1 spd mainhand, 3.1 spd offhand

-> (dw chance * dw speed) + (non dw chance * non dw speed)

50+15 cd | dr1 = 72.2%
-> (0.772 * 1.7856) + ((1-0.772) * 2.0336) = 1.8421 average swing speed

12+15 cd | dr1 = 36.16%
-> (0.3616 * 1.7856) + ((1-0.3616) * 2.0336) = 1.9439 average swing speed

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Cap Damage Per Second

cap dps = average cap damage / average cap speed

50 cd / 10 cs spec: 434 / 1.8421 = 235.60 CDPS
12 cd / 39 cs spec: 390 / 1.9439 = 200.63 CDPS

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Conclusion :p

50 dw / 50 blade > 12 cd / 39 cs / 50 blade in melee, but there are of course many many more factors that are involved (style effects & luck... poison/missing/evading etc)

Or did I make a mistake anywhere?

Also want to calculate this with a 2.5 speed offhand but can't be arsed atm.
 

Pin

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The main thing is... You've spent 408 more spec points on melee in your CD template compared to your CS template... So errr... ofc it does more melee damage in melee :p

I guess you're dropping 20 levels of poison, losing PA->CD, etc, etc.
 

Vodkafairy

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Ehm calculated it anyway, I don't know how to explain these results but I double checked it and these are the cdps values for different weapon speeds:

with 50+15 cd and dr1

4.1 main 2.5 off = 233.57
4.1 main 3.1 off = 235.60
4.1 main 4.1 off = 233.69

This is the comparison between higher offhand damage or faster swing speeds. Apparantly it doesn't really matter alot, but I can imagine fast offhand is still the best regardless of these results since offhand has no to-hit bonus and will be evaded/blocked/parried and will miss more often than mainhand.
 

Alithiel

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Vodkafairy said:
::50+15 dw skill
dual shadows 320 0.80

dark tendrils 333 0.90
dragonfang 327 0.85
I hate to point out the obvious, but you don't get Dragonfang with a spec of 50+15 DW... ;)
 

Vodkafairy

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Alithiel said:
I hate to point out the obvious, but you don't get Dragonfang with a spec of 50+15 DW... ;)
No kidding? But watch a mercfil movie and you _will_ see it spamming dragonfang / dual shadows all the time, so I added it to compare etc. It's based on 50 weaponspec :]
 

Vodkafairy

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and pin

high cd = no cs required
high cs = cd required

so it evens out a bit

modified env is 37 instead of 47
 

Pin

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Vodkafairy said:
and pin

high cd = no cs required
high cs = cd required

so it evens out a bit

modified env is 37 instead of 47
if you want to do this comparison then, you should compare:

50blade, 50CD, 10CS
50blade, 33CD, 39CS
50blade, 26CD, 44CS

That's the same amount of spec points (within 12) spent in each template on melee, so results in the same envenom/stealth spec. You're skewing the results an enormous amount by dropping 20 levels of CD and ignoring poison effects, etc.

I also assume you've dropped ~5 levels of stealth if you're only dropping 10 levels of env.
 

Vodkafairy

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Respecced to:

32 stealth
22 env
48 blade
50 celtic dual
0 cs

Wub it tbh :) Side chain is really nice and squall hits for 130-220+ mainhand depending on armour/af buffs/debuffs.

I know the comparison was a bit bad, but it's just for my personal situation :]
 

Lejemorder

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Vodkafairy said:
No kidding? But watch a mercfil movie and you _will_ see it spamming dragonfang / dual shadows all the time, so I added it to compare etc. It's based on 50 weaponspec :]
dragonfang is at 50 thrust and dual shadow is at 50 DW :D it r the last 0.25 spec point there do they can get that w/o suffering in stealth, but then they only get bs2 (if i remember right) :D
 

Xanthian

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Why Blades?
Dont you suffer without any form of stun ?

And how do you open a fight from stealth? Side or Rear CD?
 

Alithiel

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Vodkafairy said:
you _will_ see it spamming dragonfang / dual shadows all the time
Not if they're slash spec... ;)

I know it's uncommon, but you can't just dismiss it like that. You'll hurt the feelings of slash infiltrators everywhere! :twak:
 

Vodkafairy

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its about cd vs cs tho.. just added dragonfang/ds for the comparison ;p

xan, yes i suffer from no stun, but 4.1 spd weapon with d/q debuff > 3.6 rapier heh

was thinking about going back to pierce with the 3.9 rapier now, but i dont have the cash, but wanted something new

i open with the side chain now, 3 shotted a hunter with it yesterday (unbuffed , rr3) which was great fun :p
 

fl3a

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Vodkafairy said:
I can imagine fast offhand is still the best regardless of these results since offhand has no to-hit bonus and will be evaded/blocked/parried and will miss more often than mainhand.
hmm, i think offhand has an artificial 'high to-hit bonus', as if being styled. maybe that is for LA only though.
 

Vodkafairy

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fl3a said:
hmm, i think offhand has an artificial 'high to-hit bonus', as if being styled. maybe that is for LA only though.
Maybe you're right, I hope you are actually, since I was just unlucky then and it's nothing permanent :]
 

Driwen

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Vodkafairy said:
-> 0.722 * (320 + 158) + (1-0.722) * 320 = 434 avg max swing dmg

12+15 cd | dr1 = 36.16%
-> 0.3616 * (333 + 158) + (1-0.3616) * 333 = 390 avg max swing dmg
just curious, where did you get the 320 and 333 from?
As with comparing weaponspec, you should not only compare how much damage both do, but also how useful the styles are+its damage. As I cant see 320 and 333 back in your list of styles, so what are they?
 

Vodkafairy

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Driwen said:
just curious, where did you get the 320 and 333 from?
As with comparing weaponspec, you should not only compare how much damage both do, but also how useful the styles are+its damage. As I cant see 320 and 333 back in your list of styles, so what are they?
sorry for v late reply

but they are styled damage caps

I used the average of all the style caps (for cs its garrote/ah/hammy/leaper and for cd its squall, blinding rain and blizzard), it's better to calculate it per style but that's tooo much work :)

oh and

this is a dmg comparison, not a utility comparison.. :) everyone knows cs > cd in utility, i just need smth new to play with
 

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