Dragons Den

[Ch3tan]

LOL - did Toht really say that?

For the equity you give away you get support from a very successfully person, with lots of contacts, and they give you cash for that equity.

If you get a loan, you have to pay the bank back and get nothing except the cash.

There is a reason people look for investors.

 

[Ch3tan]

Also, how is it a "ripoff"? The investors are taking a massive risk, there is no return for them if the business doesn't succeed. If the business does well, everyone wins.

 

[old.Tohtori]

LOL - did Ch3tan really just blehdibluu.

I'm right here, you don't have to refer to me like im not

They set it up as a ripoff from the get go, enforcing peoples fears that this is their last chance and then offering cash for as large of a portion of the product as possible(usually unreasonable). Buy this potato for 10 bucks or you'll starve.

They also destroy products verbally(as it's quite public) and remove any chance of selling it elsewhere if they don't like something, enforcing the aformentioned fear of last chance.

Anyhoo, not that interested in getting into it much, just stating an opinion of it being a ripoff

 

[GimmlyThe3rd]

Toht is reasonably right for once .... reggae reggae sauce being the success story (even though it tasted like most other sauces with chilly added) . However the ones aren't so successful and get dropped by dragons have zero chance of getting an investor or a bank loan. No one would touch them with a barge pole after a failure on dragons den

 

[dysfunction]

That's not entirely true.

Just because the Dragons can't see it as a worthwhile investment doesn't make the product or the business crap. Some of the refused ones have been quite successful! This is probably due to the free advertising on TV!

Like these for example

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-1695929/Cup-a-wine-success-after-Dragon-rejection.html

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-1648034/My-Dragons-Den-dog-bowl-made-me-a-mint.html

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-1619011/Dragons-Den-reject-ends-up-on-top.html

 

[MYstIC G]

Indeed.

Dragons' Den: The rejects that got rich

 

[Ormorof]

indeed the exposure they get on TV is very helpful, unless they truly have an awful useless product that is

the Dragons might not be interested but a supplier/investor might be

 

[GimmlyThe3rd]

Toht was more talking about the, not so good business model, flip a coin wise ones that the dragons rip to shreds on national tv.

Not the gem in the roughs that won't accept the dragons offers, they seem to be better then the actual accepted ones.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Didn't mean the ones who know they have a good product and know what they are willing to accept from the den, they are there to make business and as such the setting is irrelevant. But there's a lot of cheating there too, ripoffing as said, of those who just don't know better. That's where the scares come into play and the judges exploiting.

Perhaps saying "all possibility" was an exaggaration, but that's nothing new on the internets

In a nutshell; if you think the judgepeeps don't rip off people and make as much money as possible on every occasion they can, you're delusional.

 

[dysfunction]

As an investor in a business "my" main aim would be to make as much money from that investment.

Welcome to the world of Capitalism!

 

[Ormorof]

by ripping people off you are suggesting the dragons are making shit loads of money while the creators are getting nothing

whereas in reality if the dragons make money the investors make more money (as they tend to stay the majority stakeholder in the business) - its a win win

 

[old.Tohtori]

By the ripoff i mean the exploitation of people and the situation they are in to cut a less fair deal.

Ofcourse business is business, but it's still ripping off

People have screamed ripoff on similar cases, regarding BBC programming, phonedeals or other such "business is business" situation.

Fair point on the show-makers getting even more, criminals behind the criminals.

 

[dysfunction]

I understand where you are coming. But, from what I see, the people that get "ripped off" is when the business is a bit on the risky side. Therefore the investor will pay in the cash but for a much larger share of the company. Higher risk higher return.

The person asking for the investment doesn't have to do a deal. They can walk away and try and do it themselves which may well be better for them.

 

[DaGaffer]

Problem with Dragon's Den is that the kind of people who want to be "Dragons" are the worst kind of egotistical show-off entrepeneurs and are usually pretty awful to work with.

They're usually lousy team players and have a mayfly attention span. They're OK for opening doors and getting you contacts, but they're a pain in the hole when it comes to day to management. Look at what Peter Jones has done to Expansys for example.

I also dislike the "1-minute pitch" format; it panders to the same showmanship attributes the Dragons like to think they have themselves, but not every leader has to be a showman.

 

[Krazeh]

I understand where you are coming. But, from what I see, the people that get "ripped off" is when the business is a bit on the risky side. Therefore the investor will pay in the cash but for a much larger share of the company. Higher risk higher return.

The person asking for the investment doesn't have to do a deal. They can walk away and try and do it themselves which may well be better for them.

And what about when the "investment" turns out to be a loan that is expected to be paid back? Is that not ripping people off?

 

[ST^]

And what about when the "investment" turns out to be a loan that is expected to be paid back? Is that not ripping people off?

...wat

 

[dysfunction]

And what about when the "investment" turns out to be a loan that is expected to be paid back? Is that not ripping people off?

When does that happen on Dragons Den?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Probably in the fine print

I wouldn't put it past them.

dysfunction i do get that, good point really and as such, not the kind of ripping off i was against. My mistake might have been implying it, if so, mah bad. I guess ripping off was meant more as a taking advantage of thing, but kind of the same thing i feel

 

[ST^]

Most of them would prefer a loan as opposed to giving up equity.