'Downfall'

[Tom]

Just watched it. In case you're not sure what it is, its the German film about the last few days of the German command, specifically Hitler and his acolytes in their bunker.

http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0363163/

Its all in German with English subtitles, but don't let that put you off.

Its an amazing film. Bruno Ganz, the guy who plays Hitler, is the most believeable Hitler I've ever seen. His voice is perfect, his rants are frightening, and he looks exactly like Hitler. The actors playing the supporting roles all look exactly like their characters should. They're all recognisable without referring to IMDB. I've read that the historical accuracy is scrupulous. The story doesn't seek to portray anybody as a demon, or humanise Hitler - its just an accurate account of what went on down there. There are some incredibly disturbing scenes, most notably Joseph Goebells' wife coldly murdering their children.

Its available via the usual channels, and I strongly recommend it.

 

[evzy]

I have that knocking about somewhere but haven't got around to watching it yet. Will dig it out methinks.

If you are into that - check out the Anthony Beevor books - Berlin is about the end of the war and though very heavy reading it is also fascinating stuff..

 

[mank!]

i watched this the other night as well, very impressive.

as you say, bruno ganz was perfect for the role and managed to capture the vulnerability and weakness of a thoroughly evil man - yet could still be kind and fatherly towards frau junge in the same breath.

it's very odd to see a film in which hitler is not portrayed in a particular way and what's more, it's entirely believable. furthermore, despite the narrative progression being mostly from frau junge's perspective, the film manage to retain a great deal of objectivity which allows scope for interpretation.

definitely worth seeing.

p.s. it's only £6 on play.com

 

[throdgrain]

Ive seen it too. Its actually that good I started feeling a bit of sympathy for the Germans. Which is fairly amazing when you think about it.

 

[mank!]

i felt sorry for hitler. it's a very powerful film.

it's received a fair bit of criticism because it could aid the neo-nazi far-right in germany, but the only people who will see the film as glorifying the nazi's are those who deserve to be stabbed in the face anyway.

 

[throdgrain]

Quite. I didnt think it gloryfied them at all, just that it was very realistic and you cant help feeling for all the people all drunk waiting for thier own demise, which is literally banging on the front door

 

[Skyler]

Ah I love films like this, there needs to be more realistic throw backs to WW2 from various points of view. Having a little insight into the way people behaved, the way things looked and what kind of things happened in those times is fascinating to me.

Those of you who liked this, or like this kind of thing should definitely watch the TV Edition of Das Boot. It's over 4hours long but is absolutely amazing at portraying submarine life during WW2. Das Boot has it all except a love story, and it really doesn't need one!

It's strange to find yourself feeling empathy for the Germans in both of these films, I am glad to see the different side though, it brings home just how all consuming a huge war like that can be. We are all human and while some may be completely evil most still have the emotions and characteristics that are unmistakably human.

 

[mank!]

i'll keep an eye out for that skyler, cheers.

i agree, one of the most interesting parts of downfall was that hitler wasn't portrayed outright as a soulless evil monster. of course, there's no doubting he was inherently evil but equally one needs to view him as a human being to fully comprehend his actions. if anything, seeing hitler as a caring and fatherly figure makes it even more chilling.

 

[leggy]

Seen this at the cinema a couple of years ago. Very good film. Gets my vote.

 

[Skyler]

Das Boot is around... you just have to make sure you get the TV version. It's out on DVD on Amazon and such places, worth the cash compared to 99% of new films

 

[Trem]

Das Boot is the grimmest film I have ever seen, it made me feel even worse than War Zone(Ray Winstone).

I have seen most of Downfall and really enjoyed(if thats the right word)what I saw.

The Pianist is also very good/grim.

 

[leggy]

I didn't really enjoy The Pianist. I wanted to but it made me black inside.

 

[Trem]

Yeah that sort of feeling, the bit where the people were lined up and the Nazi was walking along shooting them and his gun didn't work so the person had to wait while he sorted it out, that bit made me cold.

 

[leggy]

Yeah that sort of feeling, the bit where the people were lined up and the Nazi was walking along shooting them and his gun didn't work so the person had to wait while he sorted it out, that bit made me cold.

You really fooled me with this response. I had my money on a 'diseased spunk' gag.

 

[TdC]

Das Boot is really grim imo. Afaict it's reasonably realistic too. A very definite impression of a couple of men doing their job at great risk to themselves. Der alte, or the captain if you will, got my sympathy so much that I cried at the end.

Der Untergang I have not yet seen, but I do remember that there was a row about it as the actor playing Hitler did indeed show that he had a very soft and human side. I recall someone talking about Hitler hiding his hands to hide the tremors he had (from Parkinson's?) while petting his dog etc. The arguement was that too much sympathy was being created for the man.

I look forward to watching the movie, but I expect that the later evening will be a quiet one at home. Last time I had that was after Philidelphia.

 

[Trem]

You really fooled me with this response. I had my money on a 'diseased spunk' gag.

*spunks on jock*

 

[mank!]

Der Untergang I have not yet seen, but I do remember that there was a row about it as the actor playing Hitler did indeed show that he had a very soft and human side. I recall someone talking about Hitler hiding his hands to hide the tremors he had (from Parkinson's?) while petting his dog etc. The arguement was that too much sympathy was being created for the man.

hitler did have parkinson's though, or at least it's widely accepted as truth.

the film does not set out to create sympathy but there is huge contrast created by showing him as a kind and vulnerable one moment, then condemning the german people for 'losing the war'.

as i said earlier, the only people likely to consider the film as pro-hitler are those who belong to the neo-nazi far-right. those of us able to form our own opinions will be able to grasp the idea that despite being a detestable monster, he was also a human being - that's the premise of the film.

 

[Skyler]

I can't recommend Das Boot enough btw, especially seeing the other opinions about it and how people felt when watching it. It's a complete masterpiece in every sense of the word.. the captain is just amazing.

Another thing to mention about it is that despite it's age it hardly looks dated at all, due to the subtle use of special effects and the fact they were actually in a horrible cramped space. I believe during the filming the cast were locked inside for 6months and weren't allowed to have sunlight on their skin to replicate the look of a submarine crew, such attention to detail.

The TV version is a true journey of anticipation and terror. It is very intense in places, you genuinely fear for the crew and will them to survive every event.

I could continue to try and convince those of you who haven't seen it to watch it but I don't want to repeat myself too much

Just watch it, get it, TV version is best but the extended directors cut 3hour long edition is great too.

 

[leggy]

Why is the TV version better? (it's not)

I remember it being exactly the same but sliced up into 'episodes'.

 

[Skyler]

It's longer, there is more to it. It creates a better atmosphere of the life on the submarine. There is more build up and anticipation for any type of action to give them some excitement.

You get more attached to the crew and care about the success of the mission more.

Of course when I say TV Edition I am referring to the DVD, which means it's put together all in one go rather than individual episodes.

I'm a sucker for atmosphere, I ignored the theatrical LOTR's in favour of the fully extended versions.. it's just better

 

[Mobius]

I'm going to check this out, definitely. I've been watching loads of World War II documentaries and similiar things lately, and my step grandad who I now live with is a huge WW2 buff so he tells me lots of interesting things. I'm about to start reading that Stalingrad book soon too, can't wait.

 

[Mofo8]

Here's a funny clip from the film with made up subtitles.... probably only funny if you know a bit about Microsoft Flight Simulator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcW3hbnR2EI