Does this scare anyone else...?

[Talifer]

First posted by Mythic
The bug fixed in version 1.62 regarding the "Number of Attackers" check in combat which fixed the block/parry bugs as well as bolt "in combat" issues had the side effect of making raid type encounters more difficult due to the extra accuracy which is now being used to decide who is attacking a target and who isn't. Because this was not the intended result at all, we've switched around the way the attacker count check works to be more lenient in these situations. A player will now remain counted as an attacker for a given target until he is added as an attacker for a new target or until his new "attacker timer" expires. Note that healing or any other action which will add aggro will add you to the "Number of Attackers" list, not just damage.

I mean how many 'situations' are there in the code now? Statements like this lead me to the conclusion that this game is going to get buggier and buggier the more 'sticky tape' they apply, why can't they just fix the problem once, at the root and save us 6 more months of patches because a fix like this is bound to have overlooked a hundred other 'situations'

Talifer

 

[Belsameth]

because games are a big string of exceptions...making a solution that works for all encounters impossible.
mostly because a lot of things about how combat is handled is set in stone....unless they completely want to overhaul the game...something which isn't really an option

 

[Talifer]

Originally posted by Belsameth
because games are a big string of exceptions...making a solution that works for all encounters impossible.
mostly because a lot of things about how combat is handled is set in stone....unless they completely want to overhaul the game...something which isn't really an option

Actually this is what they have done, while not quite an overhaul, they have changed the underlying game mechanics in order to fix this one problem which has resulted in everything else that was based around these underlying mechanics to break. What's more worrying is that after such a fundamental change, their testing failed to uncover these problems. So now they are going to go around and hack all encounters outside RvR, thus creating exceptions to the once uniform combat system. What I'm saying is I'd be much happier if they were adjusting the underlying system to cope with all encounters rather than adjusting all encounters to cope with the system.

Talifer

 

[Sarum TheBlack]

The problem is that a uniform combat system wouldn't work. The way you want the game to behave in very large scale PvE events is different to how you want it to work in solo PvE, and different again to RvR. In a game as complex as an MMOG, involving as many very different situations as they do.. there is no option but to create exceptions to the rules, it would feel wrong if they didn't (the above is basically what Belsameth said if I read it correctly)

As regards complete overhaul.. that's not what they've done. They've changed a bit of list processing, depending on how everything is implemented, that's potentially almost totally independent to the rest of the combat calculations. If you want to see "total changes" look at the AC2 patch notes. They rebuilt skill trees almost every month, and make major changes to how some stuff works... mostly good changes imo, and apparently well thought about... but they are really big changes compared to what happens in DAoC.

 

[Danya]

I'm not scared at all, retire 4 teh win!!!11

 

[Talifer]

Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
A good initial design will require few exceptions, an underlying uniform combat mechanic is essential to the smooth running of a game such as DAoC. We're not talking about an artificial (de)buff to hit rates here, from the sound of it the combat system for these encounters is different, this cannot be good.

E.g. Let's say the rule is as follows, for every person attacking a target you get +1% chance to hit (I'm not saying these are the rules just an example). This is uniform across the whole game.

That's fair enough, in RvR 8 people attack you, they get +8% chance to hit you etc... When you fight an epic mob you need lots of people to get a good chance to hit. But you want a mob that is really hard so you give the mob a prefixed penalty of -50%. This means if 51 people attack it, they get 1% bonus, just balancing out the -50%.

That is a uniform system, with variable bonuses (i.e. each individual mob has some 'defensive' bonus)

What Mythic seem to be doing is this (again following the above example)

In RvR you are only counted as attacking a player if you use an offensive ability on them, so if 8 people attack a player they can get anywhere from 1-8% to hit bonus. When fighting epic mobs all players are counted as in combat so it will always be +8%. If you want to make a harder epic mob, then you'll have to introduce the penalty again (e.g. -50%)

This is now changing the combat system to fit the encounter. In my opinion this approach will lead to alot more problems in the future.

Talifer

 

[Belsameth]

there we go then...
it's indeed true that there don't HAVE to be exeptions...but since the design was flawed from the beginning...they have no other choice now

 

[Flimgoblin]

previously it was uniform.

You got a bonus for the number of people in your group or any other group attacking.

They changed it to be just a bonus for the number of people attacking.

This fixed RvR, it broke PvE. It's still uniform. They've modified how it checks if you're in combat... it's still uniform.

PvE balance is out of whack now (apparently root pulling no longer works on reds+) as you no longer get a passive to-hit (or to-not-be-resisted) bonus in pve... so group PvE and large scale raids are made a lot lot harder.