Help Dodgy plumber or just a bit crap?

[WPKenny]

A while back our boiler was playing up. It was shutting off really quickly because it thought it was over heating.
My brother-in-law is a corgi registered plumber but he mostly works on building sites and as such just fits new ones rather than fix broken ones.
After replacing the heat sensor with no fix, another theory was the heat exchanger. So I got some kettle descaler while he took the HE out. We dunked it for an hour and replaced it. Boiler came back to life! Good as new!

Now to the dodgy/dim plumber bit....
It's been about a month since the HE was descaled and the boiler was starting to go wrong again but this time it wasn't even starting up. It would know it should do, made clicking noises when you turned the hot tap etc but it complained of "Low pressure and/or motor error".

So I had a poke around, couldn't see anything obvious. The problem got worse till a few day ago where it just wouldn't work even intermittently. So I trotted off to work, unwashed, and had a shower there while Lou got onto a few plumbers.

A few were busy but she eventually found one that was able to come over that day. He came round and had a poke and said it needed a new PCB (printed circuit board) and muttered something about the fan not getting power. I wasn't convinced but I gave him the benefit of the doubt when Lou called me at work to inform me.

So today I trot off to work for another early shower while Lou waits in for the plumber.

He turns up and fits the new PCB. The boiler's still broken but he claims the new PCB fixed the power problem to the fan. Hmmm.
So he starts having a tinker around for several hours. Eventually he tells Lou it's the diverter valve assembly. It'll cost 100 quid + vat plus labour. On top of the cost of the PCB (100 quid + vat plus labour). He estimates the total job coming to over 400 quid plus VAT. If we just pay for today that would be 260 plus vat incl parts. For some bizarre reason he tells me the price of the same part on other boilers which are more expesive as if to make out that I'm getting a bit of a bargain.
At this point I'm a little wide eyed and starting to doubt his skills. I get Lou to tell him we'll have to think about the further part as it's quite a chunk of money. In the mean time he's managed to get the boiler working.... "sort of" as he puts it. I insist he leaves the "broken" PCB.

So I get home from work to admire his handy work..... (with the power to the boiler firmly in the off position)
Two mis matched screws holding the front of the boiler on when the two proper ones were on the surface below the boiler, unused.
Only one out of two screws holding the cover for the PCB on. The other I find INSIDE the case, LOOSE and sitting in a pool of WATER. (good job I turned the power off!)
Only 3 of the 4 screws that hold the PCB in place were present. No idea where the other one went.
The screw fitting that holds the power cable to the motor was loose.
The cover for the power into the motor was loose so I gently tugged at it and it came away in my hands. The screw doesn't seem to hold it on any more so he appars to have sheered away the screw fitting.

To top it all off the heating/hot water still didn't appear to be even "sort of" working.

So I set to work putting the old PCB back in. The boiler fired into life. For a bit. At least the old PCB is as knackered as the new one it seems.
I have a closer look at the mechanics of the boiler and notice these pins that come out of a valve when you turn the heating on or the hot water. One of the pins is not coming out far enough to activate the swtich to fire up the boiler.
I start to think he may have been on the right lines. Until I read up about the problem.
It seems he wanted to charge us around 450 quid for what looks to be a case of replacing this part....
Baxi 248065 Combi 80e/105e/80HE/105HE CH Diaphragm on eBay, also, Water Heaters Boilers, Heating Cooling Air, Home Garden (end time 28-Mar-09 21:55:11 GMT)

Yes, that's right £6.40 incl P+P!

I'm just waiting for my brother-in-law to get back from work to see if he agrees with what I've found.
Given the above (if you've read this far, well done) do you think the plumber is trying to shaft us or do you think he's just a bit dense and is just using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut?

Just based on the level of his workmanship he's coming no where near this house again. I've already decided to phone him tomorrow and tell him I'm posting the PCB back to him and 40 quid for his troubles and that's the end of the matter.

Are there any plumbers out there who agree it's the diaphragm? Or should I be replacing the whole valve assembly? It seems prudent to do the cheap fix first.

To keep the boiler going for now I have bent the switch trigger slightly so that the small distance the pin does come out is enough to trigger the boiler. Is there any long term damage that can be done by doing this?

Anyway. Hope you enjoyed reading. TTFN.

 

[Trem]

I have a closer look at the mechanics of the boiler and notice these pins that come out of a valve when you turn the heating on or the hot water. One of the pins is not coming out far enough to activate the swtich to fire up the boiler.
I start to think he may have been on the right lines. Until I read up about the problem.

I was going to say it sounds like the diverter valve diaphragm, you can wedge a little bit of cardboard or something on top of where the pin pops out so it makes contact with the micro switch. There is no damage that can come from doing this, its just a pain in the arse when the cardboard etc falls off.

May be a twat getting the DV off though especially if there isn't much working room around the part, nightmare to get a spanner up there sometimes.

Such a common problem and any plumber who knows his trade would of found that straight away.

What happens over time is the diaphragm gets looser and looser due to it being rubber, then in the end it hasn't got enough umph to push the workings up right.

I have a removed DV here if you fancy having a bash yourself and want a look before you start, it was a piece of piss to actually work on the DV part but I wouldn't of liked to of got it out the boiler myself.

 

[WPKenny]

My post was a bit rambling. Sorry.
I had bent the switch lever already so the small distance the pin moves up is enough to activate the switch and fire the boiler.
It it going to cause any damage doing this? I mean I AM going to replace it, I just wondered if it's safe to have the heating on and not cause further damage etc?

 

[rynnor]

Sounds like he was trying to rip you off tbh - you probably could report him to trading standards if he gives you any grief.

 

[Tom]

Unless you mess with the gas part of the boiler you won't be able to 'splode yourself to bits. Do be careful though because IF YOU MESS WITH IT IT WILL KILL YOU.

The DV diaphragm can be a right bastard to get to. Unless you have the tools may I suggest getting your brother around to sort it out?

While you're at it, you should also check to see if the expansion vessel needs re pressurising, they leak air over time. Bicycle pump required.

As for the plumber - if the PCB did not fix the problem, I doubt he would succeed in suing you, and DV diaphragms are a very common problem (I've already replaced mine after 5 years) - the rubber can get very weak, they start to leak, and before you know it when you turn the hot tap on, the radiators get hot.

 

[Furr]

Fucking Baxi's, our one is always giving us grief to the point that we signed up with British Gases boiler repair thingy...

In the last couple years we've had to replaced the Diaphragm twice due to the water around here being evil apparently, the PCB go + the motor go... and its only 4 years old! Got a new problem at the moment where it heats the water, but can't keep it at a stable temp so the gas turns on, the water heats, its reaches max temp, turns off, and repeat, results in hot / cold / hot / cold water.. guessing a sensor has gone so BG will be getting a call to come around, even though they are retards, it's covered!

 

[TdC]

jesus! last time my 600 year old boiler went, I got a new one, fitted and everything for 1200 euros. sure, I couldn't eat for a month, but I had glorious hot water and the thing came with a 10 year guarantee on everything o0

that aside, ever since watching a watchdog scamming program about dodgy plumbers, I am of the opinion that *every* (no offence you good guys) boiler/plumbing/gas person is out to scam the fook out of you, almost on a level with car salesmen. I'd say...get your BiL to second opinion you, and hit the bloke with everything you can. those guys are supposed to be experts, and they're not fixing your stuff!

 

[Chilly]

pay the 5 quid a month to british gas for insurance and be happy.

 

[Trem]

My post was a bit rambling. Sorry.
I had bent the switch lever already so the small distance the pin moves up is enough to activate the switch and fire the boiler.
It it going to cause any damage doing this? I mean I AM going to replace it, I just wondered if it's safe to have the heating on and not cause further damage etc?

Its safe, all what will happen with what you have done is the diaphragm will get weaker then you will have to bend the switch more and more until you can't bend anymore

I went with the cardboard fix to avoid any bending.

 

[Damini]

He also did the loudest poop in our toilet, and kept crying out "WHO YOU GONNA CALL" at random intervals when "fixing" the boiler.

I hate cowboys He's basically trying to charge us £350 for bending a piece of metal to create a contact. I had a feeling at the time he was taking the piss, dragging everything out for as long as possible. I watched him like a hawk for the first two hours, but ran out of stamina after that and just retreated to the lounge to hear him making busy noises for the next few hours. He actually said "Now I have fixed the board, I need to go through and systematically check everything else to see where the fault lies". I said "Like fairy lights?" and he agreed. Like fairy lights my arse.

 

[Trem]

Worse than that he probably danced around with some of your dirty pants on his head. "WHO YOU GONNA CALL....PANT SNIFFERS!"

 

[MYstIC G]

Report him to trading standards.

 

[Ch3tan]

pay the 5 quid a month to british gas for insurance and be happy.

Do this. It really does pay for itself when you have a problem.

 

[rynnor]

Do this. It really does pay for itself when you have a problem.

Really? My mate at work had no end of problems with them not turning up when agreed then finally turning up lacking the part to fix it, then coming back again minus the right part and then eventually fixing it nearly a week after he first phoned them with him and his wife n kids with no heating or hot water for the duration.

Plus they also act as the sales arm and try to convince everyone that their boilers obsolete and they cant get the parts

 

[Damini]

Okay, so I'm going to call him up, tell him we're sending back the board and also tell him we aren't paying the full labour charge.

I am bricking it. Any tips?

 

[MYstIC G]

That's true rynnor. That's the run around you get on a single contract though. It's on you (or the contract holder) to pin the fuckers down.

As a landlord, we recently switched all of our properties over to a bulk contract and it runs like clockwork.

Basically, you get fucked about if you let yourself be fucked about.

 

[MYstIC G]

Okay, so I'm going to call him up, tell him we're sending back the board and also tell him we aren't paying the full labour charge.

I am bricking it. Any tips?

If you're bricking it, do it in writing and if sending it by post, do it recorded delivery. This is also preferable if you start getting into a dispute as you can keep copies of letters.

 

[Ch3tan]

Same Rob, we use them for our house and the rentals too. Thing is rynnor, they do not rip you off and in my experience do a very good job. You seem to have got unlucky.


/edit: Also Dams, Rob has a point. Do you HAVE to phone him? Doing it by post will give you a record and help you control rage and nerves.

 

[rynnor]

Thing is rynnor, they do not rip you off and in my experience do a very good job. You seem to have got unlucky.

Not me - I dont use em - I have a decent non-ripoff plumber.

I imagine like most national services it varies from place to place - my friend who had a terrible experience with them lives in north london.

 

[Damini]

Dear Ian,

We appreciate you visiting our property at such short notice to see if you could fix our combi boiler. However, after you left, my partner reinstalled the old circuit board, and discovered that it was in fact in good working order, and so the temporary fix you had put in place had not required a replacement board at all. For this reason we are returning the circuit board to you.

I hope you can understand that we are therefore reluctant to pay out for a full days labour charge on work that was not actually necessary, especially in our financial situation. We are not expecting you to have given your time up for free, and we do not doubt that this was a genuine mistake rather than an attempt to inflate the work needed. Therefore we are prepared to pay you towards the labour costs a sum of £40, which we believe is fair considering the installation of a new circuit board was unnecessary, and the temporary fix is simply a matter of bending the connector to circumvent a faulty trigger mechanism.

We would ask that if, should you feel the need to respond, you do it through the post.

Well? On the right lines? Yay? Nay?

 

[TdC]

hmm I'd be hesitant to tell him you but the part back in yourself, but that's me.

 

[Ch3tan]

Nope, leave out the part about your financial situation. Do not mention that you did the work yourself. Can you not say your brother (kennnys brother?) The Corgi guy had a look at it?

 

[Damini]

I only mentioned the financial side because he knows that we're on a strict budget at the moment, and kindly offered to let us "pay him in installments" rather than just NOT DOING FUCKING UNNECESSARY WORK. *Breathe* *Breathe* And calm...

 

[WPKenny]

Here's my effort....

Package will be sent recorded delivery (incl insurance of up to 500 quid.)

I see a few people have suggested not mentioning that I swapped the circuit board out myself but I feel it's important to be honest.

Dear Ian,

I am writing to you to return the PCB that you obtained to fix our boiler on Wednesday the 11th of March and to inform you that we not be inviting you back to our property to continue your efforts to fix our boiler.
On wednesday night I came home to see what exactly you had been doing to our boiler that day.
My first impression was not good.
Firstly the “sort of” fix hadn't worked at all. The same error lights present from before your first visit were still present.
I found two completely random and mis matched screws holding the front of the boiler on when the original screws were just underneath the boiler.
The dials on the thermostats for both the CH and DHW were loose.
The cover for the PCB was not properly secured. Out of the six points used to secure the cover, only two were being used. One out of two screws and one of of two clips near the front.
Having isolated the mains electric supply I removed the cover for the PCB and found only 3 out of the 4 screws holding the PCB in place. I have no idea where the other screw is.
Once I had removed the PCB I found one of the missing screws sitting in a pool over water and loose beside the PCB!
There were also a few other thins like screws not tightened sufficiently, the water tight cover on the motor loose and large tool marks in the front of the motor.

I then replaced the circuit board, which you had installed, with our old one and found the boiler still flashing up the same warning light.

With the boiler restored as close as possible to it's original condition I was able to contact my brother-in-law who is a Corgi Registered Plumber. Under his advisement I checked a few simple things and came to the conclusion that the boiler does not need an entirely new diverter valve as suggested by you (at a cost of £100 plus VAT) but simple a new diaphragm at a cost of around £4.

Just to be even sure I swapped the “new” PCB back into the boiler and got identical results, proving to me that our old PCB was in perfect working order and in no way needed replacing.

It is for these reasons I am sending you £40 to cover what I consider to be a fair call out fee, returning the “new”, fully working PCB and will consider the matter closed.

Yours Sincerely

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Did you take any photographic evidence of his "work"?

 

[Scouse]

Talking of photographic evidence, send him a picture of your furry butt?

 

[WPKenny]

Did you take any photographic evidence of his "work"?

Nope. I wish I had but I was too eager to get the old PCB in to see if it was still working.
I figure the fact that the PCB didn't need replacing in the first place is reason enough to discontinue his services.

 

[WPKenny]

What if I leave out the bit about his shoddy workmanship and just say that under the advice of my BiL I swapped back in the old PCB and ran a few tests and concluded the PCB was never needed in the first place and rather than £200 + VAT worth of parts it just needs a diaphragm worth a few pounds?

 

[Scouse]

I like the letter, but just say you swapped the PCB back in under advice...

 

[Ch3tan]

Kenny, seriously do not mention you did the work yourself. You are not qualified and unfortunately he is. He could quite easily argue you damaged the PCB or did other damage.