Do you think people should...

[soze]

So, only if you're a criminal, you breed more criminals?

That's a silly view.

PArents effect the upbringing of children ofcourse, but it's not a simple case of "parent is a criminal = child is a criminal".

I never said that i said comparing regulating who should allowed to breed to the Nazi's is stupid

Sooooo... You say just becouse your parents have made the wrong choices, you're automatically set to do the same? Interesting view of it, going against most philosopical and psychology statements

I can only go on what i have experience of and that is Dole claiming parents that do not give a fuck 9 times out of 10 lead to kids who grow up with no rules and are arsehats. Obviously its not 100% but i don't think crims should be a instant No i think everyone should be subject to checks. My main problem is people who are claiming dole and have no work ethic have 2 or 3 kids for the extra money but teach them nothing so the kids grow up thinking thats how you should live.

 

[Huntingtons]

imagine the beaucracy that would have to be put through. First 2 checks on parents. Then personal valuation of their possible parenting skills which of course nobody really knows anything about. We're talking about doing background checks on basically every person living in a country. - the few who dont give birth nor adopt. And in the case of people having children you're gonna have to make them unable to reproduce. having to use force against a person who isnt a danger to himself nor others - im pretty sure the police had to be involved a great deal too...

silly people who wants this through have no clue how much more tax they'd have to pay.

Instead of just making social benefits work in a different (and better way). No no, too much hassle m8s!

 

[Gorbachioo]

I think the biggest argument for this plan is the one everyone here have ignored so far: population reduction

Theres too many of us here and that number has to go down or we will all pay a big price for it. We cant all reproduce as much as we want. Some of us have to give up their right to have a child. Should that person be a criminal or you?

 

[old.Tohtori]

I think the biggest argument for this plan is the one everyone here have ignored so far: population reduction

Theres too many of us here and that number has to go down or we will all pay a big price for it. We cant all reproduce as much as we want. Some of us have to give up their right to have a child. Should that person be a criminal or you?

That person should be any person in a country where there's a risk of overpopulation. I wish some countries would do that...no wait...

 

[Huntingtons]

a criminal has done his time, should he be further punished?

and do you know what happens to a country that has a a lower than 1.xx birthrate? the society crumbles. just check out japan.

 

[Gorbachioo]

a criminal has done his time, should he be further punished?

and do you know what happens to a country that has a a lower than 1.xx birthrate? the society crumbles. just check out japan.

If its necessary for the well being of someone who hasnt done a crime - and it is. Secondly, sentences in western europe are ridiculous.

Population reduction obviously has negative effects on a countrys economy but thats a small price to pay for what can be avoided if its done. And second of all, its not like Japan is doing badly either.

tohtori: i dont get it, do explain.

 

[Sparx]

i'm steering well clear if this convo now, some of the comments regarding allowing restrictions is just rediculous. And as always seems to come from the same people i try and avoid in discussions

 

[old.Tohtori]

tohtori: i dont get it, do explain.

China has a one child policy in place.

NS

 

[Gorbachioo]

China has a one child policy in place.

NS

Yees... and? Thats the finest thing that regime has ever done. If chinese population growth had continued the way it did during Mao theres a good chance ww3 would have happened already.

 

[old.Tohtori]

That person should be any person in a country where there's a risk of overpopulation. I wish some countries would do that...no wait...

China has a one child policy in place.

Get it yet?

Not criminals, any person, country in risk of over-population = child limit.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Get it yet?

Not criminals, any person, country in risk of over-population = child limit.

So can you honestly tell me if you had to choose between a 1 child policy and banning rapists and other criminals from having kids you would choose the 1 child policy? I doubt it. Is it even the morally correct thing to do? Imo, no.

 

[old.Tohtori]

So can you honestly tell me if you had to choose between a 1 child policy and banning rapists and other criminals from having kids you would choose the 1 child policy? I doubt it. Is it even the morally correct thing to do? Imo, no.

Prisoners have done their time when they are released, they are in effect, paid for their crime.

Hensh, yes, if a country would be nearing overpopulation, i'd rather have the 1 child policy then the "ban criminals" policy, because honestly, banning criminals from the breeding grounds wouldn't stop over-population as effectively.

As said before; criminal activity doesn't go with the genes.

 

[Huntingtons]

if japan is doing bad or good is besides the point because a low birthrate isnt shown untill 30 years after... aka. in 10-20 years you'll see japan not being able to withstand the demand for working forces and since the country is zenophobic, good luck getting anybody but the taiwanese to work there.

 

[Chronictank]

China has a one child policy in place.

NS

You are allowed more than 1 child in china
but you lose state benefits by doing so

There is a difference between discouraging and stopping

 

[Gorbachioo]

if japan is doing bad or good is besides the point because a low birthrate isnt shown untill 30 years after... aka. in 10-20 years you'll see japan not being able to withstand the demand for working forces and since the country is zenophobic, good luck getting anybody but the taiwanese to work there.

Okay, but that was just one of my points. The main thing here is that we can not afford further population growth and we cant probably even afford this much people. The number has to come down even if it weakens our ability to turn natural resources in to garbage.

People using economic growth as a reason for population growth to me is the height of ignorance. Unfortunately a growing number of chinese economists are beginning to think that way.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Okay, but that was just one of my points. The main thing here is that we can not afford further population growth and we cant probably even afford this much people. The number has to come down even if it weakens our ability to turn natural resources in to garbage.

People using economic growth as a reason for population growth to me is the height of ignorance. Unfortunately a growing number of chinese economists are beginning to think that way.

Yeah, kill those (insert group of people here) and we'll be better off!

*goes fetch his lederhosen and cap*

Seriously...

 

[Gorbachioo]

Yeah, kill those (insert group of people here) and we'll be better off!

*goes fetch his lederhosen and cap*

Seriously...

Yeah thats what i said. Adolf is my idol.

You're a moron tohtori. :kissit:

 

[Bugz]

Yes. Exterminating minorities is the same thing as not allowing people to have kids. Good thinking.

Both dictate the birth and/or death of lives through what the power in command deem to be correct.

Both are in fact working against the minorities.

What if someone gets pregnant who isn't allowed to have a child? Do you make them have an abortion? Wow - that's bordering on the edge of Hitler's actions.

If you let them get pregnant and have their children as such, everyone will bypass your law.

You are extremely fkin moronic if you can't connections between this and oppression, dictation and damnright ignorance of the basic fundamental rights. Who else ignored those human rights? Oh look, Hitler.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Both dictate the birth and/or death of lives through what the power in command deem to be correct.

Both are in fact working against the minorities.

What if someone gets pregnant who isn't allowed to have a child? Do you make them have an abortion? Wow - that's bordering on the edge of Hitler's actions.

If you let them get pregnant and have their children as such, everyone will bypass your law.

You are extremely fkin moronic if you can't connections between this and oppression, dictation and damnright ignorance of the basic fundamental rights. Who else ignored those human rights? Oh look, Hitler.

So tell me bugz, how would you decrease our population then? For arguments sake, lets assume thats needed.

 

[Bugz]

You could perhaps try to counter my argument there, rather than adding a new one to the mix.

 

[Gorbachioo]

You could perhaps try to counter my argument there, rather than adding a new one to the mix.

I just did. Your inability to give me a better option means that im right.

 

[Bugz]

Rofl.

Fuck me Gorb you're an ignorant lil turd.

I cba with ya.

 

[kiliarien]

Still waiting for an answer from the 20 people who said yes..

I'm bedazzled that so many people have voted 'yes'.. Ignorance at it's finest imo

Will say for me I voted yes to stimulate debate - but my first post in this thread offered alternatives and possible causes, come on Amb my love, read in more detail!! Bira hugs yooo! ower:

China has a one child policy in place.

NS

As Chronic began and I'll finish.

a) It has been massively relaxed, particularly in rural areas
b) It only occurred due to the pro-natalist policies of the 1940's & 50's, which actually saw population explode unaturally, so this was an attempted solution to a problem they partly caused
c) Large levels of (mostly female) infanticide
d) Huge hikes in crime rates led by a wave of male teenagers who statistically much more likely to commit crime
e) The creation of the inverted family, 1 child with 2 parents and 4 grandparents which culturally China is struggling to adapt to
f) The massive welfare issue - the country is set to have a massive number of elderly economic dependents with a smaller number of welfare-providing tax payers. The reason China is trying to rapidly develop is that the govt. realises unless they solve the welfare issue by increading GDP they will have, at best discontent, at worst riot on their hands.

I wonder what support system (albeit a complex one) is to help those not necessarily 'ready' to have children, as the current one works hard but not necessarily effectively all the time.

 

[old.Tohtori]

So tell me bugz, how would you decrease our population then? For arguments sake, lets assume thats needed.

I have to say, Bugz has a better point then i made.

What would you do if someone got pregnant by accident, outside this "law"?

Answer that, and i'll give you three different scenarios that work better.

 

[Huntingtons]

the reason crime rates rise with teenage-guys is theres a too small amount of girls to chase!

 

[old.Tohtori]

As Chronic began and I'll finish.

Don't have to though, it was simply an alternate to Gorbs "chop off their nuts" argument.

I don't think child limitation works any better.

 

[kiliarien]

the reason crime rates rise with teenage-guys is theres a too small amount of girls to chase!

Damn right! Extra money earning capacity and no women to drain it for you.

Don't have to though, it was simply an alternate to Gorbs "chop off their nuts" argument.

I don't think child limitation works any better.

AH I see, missed the context a little there sorry. Though Gorb should know that criminals in China DO have limitations on their chance of a birth licence in comparison to a law-abiding citizen, which was the point you responded to with your 'no....wait....' comment.

I hope to get this back on track as it has degenrated a little into 'you're a tard' - 'no, you're a tard' sort of argument.

 

[Bugz]

Turd Kill, turd.

 

[Zenith.UK]

I was impressed. 44 posts before Godwin's hit.

Coming to the point, Gorbachioo's saying that population needs to be decreased. Birth rates are falling all around the world, and the UK native birth rate is currently about 1.8 children per family. The birth rate which maintains a population is given as about 2.1 children per family. That means that countries with low birth rates will start seeing population DECREASES in the next 20-30 years.
Population paradox: Europe's time bomb - Europe, World - The Independent

Then there is migration. The BBC reported in Nov 2008 that more people were entering the UK than leaving, so that inevitably drives up the population figure over a period of time. The £64,000 question is... does the reduced birth rate balance the influx of immigrants? The general concensus is that no it doesn't, and that the UK's population will continue increasing over the next couple of decades.
BBC NEWS | Politics | UK migration: What the figures mean


I personally believe that raising children is one of the most socially responsible things anyone can do... as long as you live within your means. So I have 3 children. The 2 girls were all we had in mind, but our little boy turned up despite taking precautions. Thankfully we're in the socioeconomic category where we can look after our family without resorting to much in the way of benefits.

Family planning is all well and good, but accidents still happen.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Rofl.

Fuck me Gorb you're an ignorant lil turd.

I cba with ya.

And still you cant come up with a better way to reduce our population.

But now that we are calling eachother names i might aswell say what i think: You're an idiot. You obviously know alot of things. You've read your books and you get good grades at school but still you're not capable of independent thinking. Ive noticed this in these discussions. You always quote some study without actually understanding anything of it and you copy other peoples thoughts without any criticism.

I have to say, Bugz has a better point then i made.

What would you do if someone got pregnant by accident, outside this "law"?

Answer that, and i'll give you three different scenarios that work better.

If the parents are considered good enough to raise the baby (despite being told no earlier) then fines/community service or other things that will punish the parents but not the child. If the parents are violent criminals then the child should be taken in to custody and the parents given jail time. Being raised in a foster home is better than having parents like that.

I was impressed. 44 posts before Godwin's hit.

Coming to the point, Gorbachioo's saying that population needs to be decreased. Birth rates are falling all around the world, and the UK native birth rate is currently about 1.8 children per family. The birth rate which maintains a population is given as about 2.1 children per family. That means that countries with low birth rates will start seeing population DECREASES in the next 20-30 years.
Population paradox: Europe's time bomb - Europe, World - The Independent

Then there is migration. The BBC reported in Nov 2008 that more people were entering the UK than leaving, so that inevitably drives up the population figure over a period of time. The £64,000 question is... does the reduced birth rate balance the influx of immigrants? The general concensus is that no it doesn't, and that the UK's population will continue increasing over the next couple of decades.
BBC NEWS | Politics | UK migration: What the figures mean


I personally believe that raising children is one of the most socially responsible things anyone can do... as long as you live within your means. So I have 3 children. The 2 girls were all we had in mind, but our little boy turned up despite taking precautions. Thankfully we're in the socioeconomic category where we can look after our family without resorting to much in the way of benefits.

Family planning is all well and good, but accidents still happen.

No birth rates are not falling all around the world. They are falling in rich countries. And as you mentioned, decreases in birth rates take decades to translate in to population reduction. Decades we just_dont_have. I know most people here are too simple minded to understand how deep we are in this mess.