Do you think ill get a refund?

[johndoe]

I had my character deleted by my little brother, so i made a plea to RightNow trying to get it restored. This is whats happened so far..

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European Dark Age of Camelot Customer Support
Customer (XXX XXXX) 02/25/2003 08:21 AM
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Hello,

I was recently out of the country, and sadly one of my younger brothers managed to get into my Dark Age Of Camelot account while i was away. Not understanding, he deleted my level 40 hero (XXXX/XXXXX) and in a panic left the game. Logged back in and chose midgard, he started a few low characters and then deleted them, it has only come to my attention now, because i mentioned going to play soon, wanting to try shrould isles when i get it and he told me then what happened.
So im wondering is it possible to have my level 40 hero, replaced/undeleted? I know i should have kept my account information in a safer place and i can understand if it isn't possible, but i thought it was worth asking. The account is currently closed, because i'm waiting to see if theres any point to renew.

Thanks for any information,

Yours

XXX

ps, pppppllllllleeeeeeeeaasssseeeeeeeeeeee


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Response (CS) 02/25/2003 12:04 PM
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Hello,

As your account is now closed I cannot check if we can restore your character.
Regards,
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European Dark Age of Camelot Customer Support
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Customer (XXX XXXX) 02/25/2003 01:20 PM
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What conditions must be met for you to be able to restore my character? Just, i don't plan on playing if i can't get my character back, so id like to avoid paying a month then finding out it can't be restored.
If theres a good chance it can, or i can meet the conditions under which it needs to be restored, ill reactive the account asap.

Thanks!

Yours

XXX

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Response (CS) 02/25/2003 02:58 PM
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Hello,

Unfortunately we cannot chack anything on a closed account, this is why I cannot tell you if your character will be there if you come back.
Regards,
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European Dark Age of Camelot Customer Support
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Customer (XXX XXXX) 02/26/2003 02:10 AM
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Hello,

The account has now been reactivated, im /really/ hoping it can be restored as i really don't have any plans to start over with a new character.

Thanks

XXX

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Response (CS) 02/26/2003 10:22 AM
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Hello,

Unfortunately, we no longer have any backups for this character.

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European Dark Age of Camelot Customer Support
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Customer (XXX XXXX) 02/27/2003
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Hello,

For some reason im unable to find this question thread on the rightnow page anymore, so ill have to reply to this. Shortly after reactivating my account in order for you to check weither it could be restored or not, a friend pointed out to me a thread on barrysworld DAOC forums involving deleted characters. It was there that i saw a post by Kemor on that thread that states:

"With patch...1.45 if I remember correctly, we got the tool needed to restore characters. After this, we never re-created characters but just restored them. This easy procedure allowed us to restore characters deleted by players. However, there are some limitations to this restore system:
1- Each account got 4 "deleted" slots. Every time you delete a character, it goes into one of these slots. If your 4 "deleted" slots are full, then the deleted character will "push" one of the old deleted ones out and this one will NEVER be restorable.
2- Characters cannot be restored through patches. This means that if you delete a character before a patch, we will not be able to restore it afterwards."

I wish to point out what i have highlighted in bold, are these not conditions which must be met in order to restore a character? I clearly asked you was there conditions that had to be met in order for my character to be restored, because i wanted to avoid paying the account and then being told it could not be restored, you dismissed my question with information you had given me already (as seen above).
I wouldn't have reactived my account by paying another month if you had just told me (When i asked) that one of the conditions of having a character restored is that characters can only be restored if deleted on the most recent patch, that any characters deleted before the most recent patching aren't possible to be restored.

I am now asking you for a refund of my ten euro. Like i said, i have no plans to play this account with no character and i do not wish to start over.

Yours

XXX

I just sent that last msg off, so im just wondering do YOU think ill get my ten euro back?

 

[johndoe]

Btw, when i say

"For some reason im unable to find this question thread on the rightnow page anymore, so ill have to reply to this."

I'm talking about an email, not this thread.

 

[Xtro]

Refund? No chance I'm afraid.

 

[johndoe]

Why not? The CS didn't give me all the information, i could have told him it was deleted before the recent patching and that there was no point reactivating the account IF he had told me that was one of the conditions, but instead it was pointed out to me on a thread on this very forum (which i didn't know about) by a friend after i had already paid.

Theres no information in the FAQ on camelot-europe.com about the conditons kemor mentioned either.

 

[mordia]

Clearly the CS'es fault. You should get a refund.

 

[Vell]

That is VERY poor customer service, and I fully back Johndoe in his quest to get a refund.

I would email Kemor directly too (I think it's Kemor@goa.com - or at least it used to be). He is often a bit smarter than some of the other CS guys.

 

[rokan]

nice ripoff from GOA, give the money back to johndoe

 

[Whoodoo_RD]

No chance, once a char is deleted, it can be reactivated unless those slots are used once again.

With your bro activating new characters in those slots, basically he killed any hope of resurecting your hibbie chars.

All this info has been on rightnow, finding its not easy tho

Sometimes its worth asking on here, from time to time people will give you a sensible reponse. Shame on Kemor not giving you this info in his mails, slapped wrists for that.

As for your money... sorry thats gone

Tip, dont give little brothers your password, seen a hell of a lot of ppl on here whos "little brother" has deleted their chars....and most of those threads end but with the flame brigade comments like "monkeys will fly out of my butt" and you being branded a twat who got drunk and accidentally fell on his keyboard hitting the delete key and typing YES in 1 foul move. Something few of us ever beleive, but the little brother one sounds better

 

[old.yaruar]

Originally posted by Vell
That is VERY poor customer service, and I fully back Johndoe in his quest to get a refund.

Yup totally, although GOA might come back and query if there was a date given for the character deletion.

10 euros isn't much for a big company one would hope if only in good grace they would refund.

 

[Kobold]

bastards

 

[johndoe]

With your bro activating new characters in those slots, basically he killed any hope of resurecting your hibbie chars.

Kemor says there has to be 4 characters created over one slot before the first character you made will be completely deleted. My little brother only started 2, i think.

All this info has been on rightnow, finding its not easy tho

FAQ says the following :

" Question
I accidently deleted my char. Can you undelete it?

Answer
We need the following informations in order to check our backups:

- name of the server
- name of the character
- name of at least one character that is still on the server

Don't delete any char on this server until we answered your message. "

Very vage, gets at the deletion part but says nothing about patches.

dont give little brothers your password

I didn't give it to him, it was my mistake that he got it because i didn't put it in the best place and i know that, im not worried about the deletion here, im worried about the fact that the CS left out so much crucial information after i had asked before he made me renew the account.

I am pissed about what my brother did, and i can understand why goa can't replace/restore the character, i can't understand why the CS didn't give me more information before making me renew...

 

[old.Cordain]

It would be only fair to pay him back as the whole thing could have been easily avoided with working CS.

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

This so reminds me of Mr. TNT's "my cusion deleted my skald!!1" thread from awhile ago... *sniffles*

Gifv teh money back!
*goes to start a photoshop pictar campaign*

 

[Teh Krypt]

Make a new char, you'll be 40 before your 10 euros is up.

 

[Teh Krypt]

Originally posted by Uncle Sick(tm)
This so reminds me of Mr. TNT's "my cusion deleted my skald!!1" thread from awhile ago... *sniffles*

Gifv teh money back!
*goes to start a photoshop pictar campaign*

Get-on-irc-you-German.

 

[johndoe]

Sigh, things just got worse. See for some reason the Right Now disscusion thread dissapered after i made my post saying i had reactivated the account. I made another asking where it had gone and i got sent an email containing the whole thread but its still not listed in my Right Now account. I replyed with my latest msg to that email i got and its not delievering :|

So now ill have to send in all the info i posted here to right now, and get them to read over it, tell me will i get a refund and where my original Right Now discussion thread went.

 

[Jupitus]

Send the 10 Euro invoice to your brother, not GoA. It's your mistake, live with it.

The mechanism to delete characters is made difficult in order to prevent accidental deletion of characters. That is the primary safeguard against situations like this, and having a possible backup through the support team is an additional safeguard but one that should never be needed. In short, look after your login details properly and don't rely on the last chance saloon.

At the time you asked your questions you were no longer a customer of GoA, so why should they answer you at all? Yes, I can see an argument to say they might offer you a 10 Euro refund as a gesture of goodwill, but nothing more.

 

[Mr TNT]

they could of said more information then one line m0 ;o

 

[Teh Krypt]

Originally posted by Jupitus
Send the 10 Euro invoice to your brother, not GoA. It's your mistake, live with it.

The mechanism to delete characters is made difficult in order to prevent accidental deletion of characters. That is the primary safeguard against situations like this, and having a possible backup through the support team is an additional safeguard but one that should never be needed. In short, look after your login details properly and don't rely on the last chance saloon.

At the time you asked your questions you were no longer a customer of GoA, so why should they answer you at all? Yes, I can see an argument to say they might offer you a 10 Euro refund as a gesture of goodwill, but nothing more.

Think they will give me 10 euros for being Purdy?

 

[The Fonz]

no_

 

[johndoe]

At the time you asked your questions you were no longer a customer of GoA, so why should they answer you at all?

I still own another active account and im playing that account since march, nearly a year. I think that grants me the knowledge that i might get more then 2 lines of customer support. I can see where you're coming from, i know i should have kept the details in a safer place and i can UNDERSTAND why goa can't restore/replace my character, i just can't understand why the CSR held information that could have safed me the time effort and money of reactivating the account. Or is Kemor the only one at GOA who seems to know about these conditions?

They're aren't stated under the FAQ anyway.

 

[gomez]

The CSR really didn't do everything in his power tbh, and in my expierence i find alot of the Right now answers are two liners. It would be fair for him to get a refund.

 

[Teh Krypt]

Afink he should get a job so he can afford £6..

 

[Damini]

It's a matter of principle too Krypt.

 

[Jupitus]

At last! A chance to lock horns with evul Damini

 

[Vell]

Originally posted by Jupitus


At the time you asked your questions you were no longer a customer of GoA, so why should they answer you at all? Yes, I can see an argument to say they might offer you a 10 Euro refund as a gesture of goodwill, but nothing more.

Jupitus, this arguement does not hold up.

Example: you mum buys you a shirt from debenhams for your birthday (yes, I know, ha ha, Debenhams sucks, but it's where my mum buys clothes from )

Shirt doesn't fit...poor you. You try to take it back, with the reciept (because your mum cleverly kept it) and try to get a refund.

You: This shirt doesn't fit, could I have a refund please, here is the receipt.

CS: I'm sorry, you are not currently a customer of Debenhams, I can't help you.

You: Huh?

CS: If you want me to help you, you will have to buy something first.

You: But my mum bought this and it doesn't fit! I want my money back, that's all.

CS: I'm sorry, you are not a present customer of Debenhams. You will have to buy something before I can help you.




By your 'you were not a customer, why should they help you' comment, you seem to be saying that this kind of behavior is acceptable.


Johndoe has admitted it was his fault that the character got deleted.

What is not acceptable is that GOA forced him to renew his account before they would help him. It would not have killed CS to state the conditions for character renewal (and Johndoe even asked for them!) but CS refused to help.

This is not acceptable, and as such, he should get a refund of his 10 euros. No, it's not a lot of money, it's the principal behind it.

 

[acei]

Considering deleting a character requires typing "YES" then confirming it, your little brother knew exactly what he was doing... get him to pay the €10

 

[Jupitus]

Sorry but the analogy you use is flawed. In the case of the clothes from Debenhams, the money has been exchanged for the product in good faith, and the product was not as it should have been.

GoA charge the money for rental of a service, namely access to the online game servers.

If he had paid his 10 Euros, and the servers had been unavailable then he would be entitled to his money back. It is his mistake that the character was deleted, and not GoA's that it could not be restored (that's already been agreed). He knew there was a chance of this situation before he paid his 10 Euro. Had GoA support told him "pay your subs, and we will see, and if it can't be restored you can have a refund" then he would be quite right to complain. Fact is, he is being given the service he is paying for, ie a login id and password with access to the servers. His subs do not include character restoration as a part of that service, because it is known that sometimes it is not possible. Therefore he can play for a month now albeit on a new character, or he can write the 10 Euros off and go kick his borther's ass.

The service he paid his 10 Euros for is being provided.

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

The gimpy, filthy, foul-reeking Alb has a point there...

... buy anyway:
Gifv teh money - it's a matter of principle.

 

[Jupitus]

Ok... after lots of discussion here is the issue as I see it...

GoA's CS staff seem work to a script or series of scripts for standardization of their answers. Good thing about this is that they ought to be consistent in their answers. Bad thing is that it doesn't encourage them to use their initiative or 'go the extra mile' for their customers.

In this case the guy has got the 'can my character be restored' question, and has followed his routine as he has been trained:

1) receive request
2) check character database
3) respond yes if character there, no if character not there

but unfortunately between steps 2 and 3 there is no provision for when it says 'account closed, info not available' to the CS guy, so he responds to customer saying he can't be sure, you need to pay your subs. If we change the script:

1) receive request
2) check character database
3) IF account closed THEN send more detailed information about restorations ELSE GOTO 4
4) respond yes if character there, no if character not there

This would have advised whatshisname that there was a good chance his character couldn't be restored, but without paying he could not confirm this for sure.

This is all guess work, of course I still stand by what I said before though... morally I guess he could argue for a refund, but legally? never

Oh... and in addition - please don't think I am trying to belittle what the CSRs do in any way - anyone working in an environment when people only ever contact you to moan about something deserve a medal anyway