Do you like your class' TL?

[Falcon]

Danyan, you conveniently missed quoting where the Minstrel TL asked for a 100% increase in both DD's damage, this, without resists would add the minstrels shouts up to doing around 750dmg total between the both of them.

I'm not anti-minstrel as such, I just think there were far more classes that needed love before minstrels, good players do well with minstrels but classes like Scouts needed love FAR more urgently than Minstrels for example. Beleive me, I'd have been as much against the change if it was another powerful class like say, Friars getting such large boosts. Overall I think Minstrels are a real nice class, I love classes with a large variety of different toys to play with, the only thing stopping me making one myself is that it'd be a pain levelling up from scratch in a new realm and if I was new to DAoC knowing what I do now I'd start one. My point is though that, yes Albs needed love, but no Minstrels weren't the ones who really needed it.

There's some female minstrel who always posts on VN who really annoys me, she still feels after the changes Minstrels need more love, the sad thing is she's only like RR3L0 or something around that, there seem to be some people who want their class to be able to kill everything without requiring any skill on the player's behalf and this person is a prime example of that. The whines about how gimp minstrel stealth is still are really really sad, have they ever looked at archer stealth? then compared to the fact archers (bar Scouts) don't have a form of insta-CC to help them get away when they inevitably get caught via See Hidden? The problem is, Mongo too seems to be one of those people without skill who just wants an insta-kill button or some-such. I stated that players like Coren seem to do well with his Minstrel on that VN thread and they instantly stated that Coren OBVIOUSLY uses a buffbot because he does well, even tho they play US and don't even know the guy. Sorry, but most of those Minstrels problems are not knowing how to play the class, not that it's underpowered and on the same note, it goes for even my class too, Rangers although we do have issues in the bow line, most people's problems with them are not knowing how to play them.

 

[old.Trine Aquavit]

Moller, the Healer TL is pretty good, I think.

 

[eynar]

Personally I'd like it better when every class had a couple of TL's instead of one...imo it's not very smart to let a single person decide what improvements are needed. What if the person in question doesn't share the community's opinion about the class for example. These kind of things could easily be avoided if every class had about 4 TL's, atleast there would be some kind of deliberation on requests etc.
The skald tl is not bad I guess, although she seems a bit too careful in asking changes. She should use the minstrel TL's strategy: asking for ridiculously overpowered stuff, with the knowledge that even a small percentage of your demands would be awesome when approved...

 

[tildson]

I hate mine, he wants to remove the heatdebuff to enchantment-line. Can you imagine playing an Enchanter as non-overpowered?!?! And acutally DEAL with resists?

 

[Wend]

TL's don't decide what improvements are needed.

 

[Meatballs]

Originally posted by Falcon

I'm not anti-minstrel as such, I just think there were far more classes that needed love before minstrels, good players do well with minstrels but classes like Scouts needed love FAR more urgently than Minstrels for example. Beleive me, I'd have been as much against the change if it was another powerful class like say, Friars getting such large boosts. Overall I think Minstrels are a real nice class, I love classes with a large variety of different toys to play with, the only thing stopping me making one myself is that it'd be a pain levelling up from scratch in a new realm and if I was new to DAoC knowing what I do now I'd start one. My point is though that, yes Albs needed love, but no Minstrels weren't the ones who really needed it.

The whines about how gimp minstrel stealth is still are really really sad, have they ever looked at archer stealth? then compared to the fact archers (bar Scouts) don't have a form of insta-CC to help them get away when they inevitably get caught via See Hidden?

Scouts are far better at killing people than minstrels, minstrel has some strong support abilities but I dont agree that they needed love far more than minstrels. All the running around solo isn't what Mythic is trying to balance the game towards.

Minstrels should be able to get camouflage like scouts/hunters/rangers too, the additions to the line havn't actually helped them to Stealth better.

Minstrels did need love at the time, its great having lots of abilities, but when they start to all become second rate whats the point? Stun due to resists - far worse than melee stuns/clerics, AE Mezz - terrible, DDs pretty weak now due to body resist, can DD DD Mezz rest Stun DD DD melee and still not be able to kill similar classes. With sorc's pot buffs coming in, that would have been a blow to the usefulness of Powersong also. Also what can minstrels do whilst playing their songs? Not a lot, unlike skalds (who swop over to damagesong and melee), bards - cast mezz/heal.

How many casters do you know that duel spec 37/39? They could get lots of abilities, but they would be at pretty naff levels.

 

[Sharma]

/me eats Mattshanes

 

[eynar]

Originally posted by Wend
TL's don't decide what improvements are needed.

true, but they do give requests and suggestions, so they have some kind of influence (or atleast more than the average player)

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Falcon
Danyan, you conveniently missed quoting where the Minstrel TL asked for a 100% increase in both DD's damage, this, without resists would add the minstrels shouts up to doing around 750dmg total between the both of them.

No I didn't, reread my post, in particular the first line of the quote: "+ Decrease the Power cost of Minstrel shout spells by 50 percent OR increase their damage by 100 percent." There I've even highlighted it for you.
He asked for more power efficiency, personally I think the power reduction is more balanced as it doesn't change dps, just ability to maintain it over a period of time. Double damage shouts would have delved for more than wizard nukes which would be silly. The power reduction for minstrels and skalds is only brining their shouts in line with the bard insta DD and close to others (champ, thane etc.)

Originally posted by Falcon
I'm not anti-minstrel as such, I just think there were far more classes that needed love before minstrels, good players do well with minstrels but classes like Scouts needed love FAR more urgently than Minstrels for example. Beleive me, I'd have been as much against the change if it was another powerful class like say, Friars getting such large boosts. Overall I think Minstrels are a real nice class, I love classes with a large variety of different toys to play with, the only thing stopping me making one myself is that it'd be a pain levelling up from scratch in a new realm and if I was new to DAoC knowing what I do now I'd start one. My point is though that, yes Albs needed love, but no Minstrels weren't the ones who really needed it.

There's some female minstrel who always posts on VN who really annoys me, she still feels after the changes Minstrels need more love, the sad thing is she's only like RR3L0 or something around that, there seem to be some people who want their class to be able to kill everything without requiring any skill on the player's behalf and this person is a prime example of that. The whines about how gimp minstrel stealth is still are really really sad, have they ever looked at archer stealth? then compared to the fact archers (bar Scouts) don't have a form of insta-CC to help them get away when they inevitably get caught via See Hidden? The problem is, Mongo too seems to be one of those people without skill who just wants an insta-kill button or some-such. I stated that players like Coren seem to do well with his Minstrel on that VN thread and they instantly stated that Coren OBVIOUSLY uses a buffbot because he does well, even tho they play US and don't even know the guy. Sorry, but most of those Minstrels problems are not knowing how to play the class, not that it's underpowered and on the same note, it goes for even my class too, Rangers although we do have issues in the bow line, most people's problems with them are not knowing how to play them.

Archers did need love more than minstrels. However, that doesn't mean minstrel didn't really need it too. For instance, the "insta-CC means see hidden doesn't affect you" is just rubbish. A 6 sec stun on the body resist table offers basically no chance of escape from an assassin. For a start you get 4 seconds effective stun, which gets you no where, you can't start speedsong until dot has stopped ticking anyway, and you can't mez because of the lame interrupt code - you try the assassin interrupts you (while stunned), then hits you before you can try again. With a 9 second stun at least a minstrel can get a mez off vs an assassin. Also a single target insta stun doesn't help much when an assassin spots you and brings a group. At least a camoed archer has some protection from that, a minstrel has none. The point that a lot of minstrels make and yet people like you continually fail to grasp is, minstrels look a lot better on paper than in practice. It's the classic "omg you have chain, stealth, pets, speed, mez, stun, dds, melee, how can you loose?!" argument. Which neglects to mention that most of those don't work with each other and that all of them are weak versions of the abilities. Minstrel is the epitome of "Jack of all trades but master of none".

I'm not sure quite how you are qualified to comment about the skill required to play a minstrel as by your own admission you have never played one, yet you seem to feel your comments about how to play the class are more valid than those people who actually play minstrels. It would be like me sitting here saying archers have plenty of tools to use and anyone who can't play one well is just unskilled. Personally, you may feel that is true, but I wouldn't like to comment on a ranger as have I never played any archer in DAoC, let alone a ranger. I think dismissing Mongo's suggestions for things the class needs as "asking for an insta-win button" is incredibly narrow minded.

Now, I think a lot of the American posters tend to exaggerate the problems with the class, and after 1.60 minstrels should be pretty much on balance (hard to say for certain without playing it). However at the moment things are not that great for minstrels. The shout changes are the main issue - 8 shouts is one full power bar at present and 40% endurance. And likely to do barely more than 1000 damage. Stun is so short it's not even worth using, especially in group combat, it's a couple of seconds (literally, I have been stunned by a minstrel playing my mentalist and come out of stun before they even finished mezzing). That's two tools in the bag of tricks which are next to useless already. Getting the picture here, they look amazing on paper, but reality is not the same.

 

[vladamyr]

Not really gonna say alot about Thane TL,

I think hes better than the previouse one, he did 'HELP' get us the 1.59 changes and his reports seem level headed, but as Solid said when it gets down and dirty he doesent really have a clue :/

Plus the fact he re rolled as a BD is a bit of a /slap in teh face



Roll on 1.59 ^^

 

[Falcon]

Danyan, my comments stem mostly from fights with Minstrels and one thing I can say for sure is that Minstrels are actually a much tougher fight than Infils, Sheild Armsman/Pallys, Sheild Warriors, Thanes, Skalds and a few other classes IF they use all the tools available to them, stun, pet, shouts. Now I know it's not about 1 vs 1 but they definetely have decent survivability, add to that their utilities such as speed, power song and ablative next patch and that's one hell of a powerful class.

Now please don't extract from that that I'm saying Minstrels beat sheild Pallys in duels, I'm not, lets face it there are many other factors, the fact I'm duel weild means I do very well vs sheild users in general. With capped resists Minstrels still currently hit me for just under 300dmg with both DDs (I think around 270), if the 100% increase in damage HAD gone in like the TL suggested than that's 540dmg with capped resists, if you ask me that's not quite an instant win button but for an insta it'd be undisputably overpowered, that's why I feel that particular point, along with a few others were horribly researched by the minstrel TL, that or he's not too comfy with game mechanics.

P.S. You should campaign to get your original shout effects and sound back, for some obscure reason I prefferred it

 

[Stinko]

Rosanne - Skald TL is the best!
Working her/his ass of to report bugs to Mythic. I love my TL

 

[Coren]

Originally posted by Falcon
Except they were completely different to the 1500 range, 750dmg total damage, 10sec recast DDs the Minstrel TL was asking for...

How many times did we discuss this? How many times do I have to show you that quote that Danyan already posted? How many times do I have to tell you there's a major difference between the words "and" and "or"?

And yes, the 100% dmg increase on the shouts would've been insane, but it would've been the only viable option next to lowering the power cost. And seeing one option was completely rediculous, the other got through. Which is what minstrels wanted (Shock! horror! I thought they wanted an 'I-Win'-button!?), so the TL got something minstrels wanted and seeing as this discussion is about TLs being able to do their job, I can say that the minstrel TL is.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Spirit Master Team Leader

Oxymoron

 

[Jenna.]

The runie TL sucks. 'Hi, RC is uber, please nerf it more'.

 

[Sharma]

hmmm which TL was it that was asking to nerf other classes? it was caster on, think it was the wizzie