Do you believe in GOD ?

[Maljonic]

in reply to the thread: I believe in God or some kind of spiritual force that cannot be explained as yet... This has nothing to do with religion which, for the most part, is a waste of a good life.

 

[Summo]

I asked God if he existed and he told me to get the fuck out of his hotel room.

 

[mr.Blacky]

I believe there is a God, I have seen the light and the light was good. Can I hear an amen.

 

[old.UKTwister]

If you don't believe in god you are taking a chance though...

If it turns out there isnt a God? oh well you've only wasted an hour each sunday at church.

If it turns out there is a God? your in shit

 

[mr.Blacky]

Originally posted by old.UKTwister
If it turns out there isnt a God? oh well you've only wasted an hour each sunday at church.

ahh but now you are talking about organised religion, and that aint the same as believing in God.

 

[Sir Frizz]

Originally posted by old.UKTwister
If you don't believe in god you are taking a chance though...

If it turns out there isnt a God? oh well you've only wasted an hour each sunday at church.

If it turns out there is a God? your in shit

All this Heaven and Hell bollocks, honestly, it's totally and utterly unfounded. On what evidence is there to say it does exist. Sure you can say "what evidence is there to say it doesn't exist", but that's as good as someone making something up off the top of your, head and pulling the same shit.

What do you think happens to other living things?
"OOH!! A TREE!! AND IT AER IN TEH HEAVEN OMG WOW LIEK KEKEKE!!"

As far as one knows, it could have just been some sort of propaganda cow shit set up by some gimpish hoarde to keep the deviants in check, "to behave well, one goes to the afterlife in perfect harmony - heaven, and if not..."

 

[Ash!]

Should we start a cult off in the name of Wij ?

 

[Wazzerphuk]

A cult that removes foreskin. Sounds good to me.

 

[Any]

Originally posted by old.UKTwister
If you don't believe in god you are taking a chance though...

If it turns out there isnt a God? oh well you've only wasted an hour each sunday at church.

If it turns out there is a God? your in shit

If you dont know then this is Pascal's Wager. It is massively flawed.

Anyway, i suppose im agnostic. Like Scooba, i could be convinced by a miracle.

 

[(Shovel)]

I'm a walking contradicton aparently.

Bascially, I've been raised Catholic. Been through the sacraments, spent a good few years of my childhood helping out as an alter boy (actually, I did it again last week, the lazy bastards that do it since I went to uni all skived off...).
Overall, I've got no shame in it.

Having said that, "By the book Catholicism" - of the modern type, not the stereotype from pre-1950 - I'm not a very good Catholic at all.

People seem to think that Catholics - because it is one of the stricter religions - all believe the same stereotypical things. E.g. the views on contraception/abortion/gay people/other christians/etc.

The reality for me, and I think most of the Catholics who I see at church, is that frankly, no one is telling them what to believe, but at church everyone there shares at least some common belief. Frankly, that's why I go to church.

Yes, religion has been abused by a minority. I also have my doubts about the overall "from god"-ness of the Bible, both through errornous translations and the above mentioned abuse.

But the morality it teaches is good for me, and that is the basis of it really (however much people prefer to talk about the non-issues).

That's rather a lot about religion... which is wrong, cause religion isn't the important thing for me. My faith is built on what's happened in my life, and will be adjusted accordingly as I live long (that's the plan) through the rest of it.

Afterlifes. I don't know why, but I feel that there is. It's probably the above mentioned upbringing, but it does feel "right" to me, and I'll let God guide me on the matter, cause if he's there, he's the one who'll know.

 

[xane]

Personally I don't follow any religious belief, I wouldn't even call myself atheist either.

I don't like the "tag" of religion, and even less the way people seem to think you've got to believe in something. It's like saying everyone is a car driver, even the people who don't own cars, they're just "non-car drivers".

I don't believe. <-- full stop. Get that into your head.

Why can't you just go through life taking everything as you see it, only having faith in yourself ? I bet even the most ardent religious (but still moderately sane) person does that, yet they still think the comfort of religion will help them, they are fooling themselves.

The nutcases who don't think and do everything they are told are another story.

Sure I've read a few books that have "changed my life" or "opened my eyes", but I don't worship the people who wrote them, they have contributed greatly to my perspective on life, I read them and chucked them away, job done.

I'm not actually against "religion" per se, but I am fervently against religious organisations, to me they are on a par with drug dealers, exploiting the basic human desire to have faith in something, stopping people becoming their own master, kind of like keeping someone in perpetual childhood.

A religious organisation goes under the banner of promoting the religious beliefs is ascribes to, but really it is no more than a vehicle for promoting the organisation itself. I wince everytime I see various church leaders gather together and have a big group hug, the next minute they're trying to whoo the punters into their chapel like some cheap sales stunt.

Even the small religious groups, they have a tendancy to control people, I'm sorry but religion is like that.

To those who say they're regular attendees of a religious organisation but then distance themselves from the more extremists elements, consider this; I work for a company that may invest in areas I have particular disgust with. I still work there though, but I feel pretty shit about it, then again I have a family to feed, so what's your excuse ?

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

Originally posted by Sir Frizz
All this Heaven and Hell bollocks, honestly, it's totally and utterly unfounded. On what evidence is there to say it does exist. Sure you can say "what evidence is there to say it doesn't exist", but that's as good as someone making something up off the top of your, head and pulling the same shit.

What do you think happens to other living things?
"OOH!! A TREE!! AND IT AER IN TEH HEAVEN OMG WOW LIEK KEKEKE!!"

As far as one knows, it could have just been some sort of propaganda cow shit set up by some gimpish hoarde to keep the deviants in check, "to behave well, one goes to the afterlife in perfect harmony - heaven, and if not..."

Yet that's exactly the point, it's a faith. At school did you require proof for everything you were told? You've never been to Pluto yet you take it on faith that it exists.

As for it being some kind of propaganda to keep people in check, why is that a bad thing? The majority of religions have a behaivour code that if followed would make the world almost an infinitely better place

 

[(Shovel)]

Originally posted by xane
To those who say they're regular attendees of a religious organisation but then distance themselves from the more extremists elements, consider this; I work for a company that may invest in areas I have particular disgust with. I still work there though, but I feel pretty shit about it, then again I have a family to feed, so what's your excuse ? [/B]

As I say, my "excuse", is that it is nice to be able to meet on a common ground with people who share at least some elements of my own faith.

There's nothing more to it really. I don't see it as an "excuse" either, I don't feel that I need one.

 

[(Shovel)]

Originally posted by Scooba Da Bass
As for it being some kind of propaganda to keep people in check, why is that a bad thing? The majority of religions have a behaivour code that if followed would make the world almost an infinitely better place [/B]

Hear Hear. God forbid (no pun intended), that George Dubya or Tony Blair should actually live like Christians for a day...

 

[mr.Blacky]

Why can't you just go through life taking everything as you see it, only having faith in yourself ? I bet even the most ardent religious (but still moderately sane) person does that, yet they still think the comfort of religion will help them, they are fooling themselves.

Well yes people need some comfort, not just from friends but also that the universe cares, that there is a reason for existense and that comfort or faith will cary people on when the rest fails. However if you are just talking about organised religion I agree with you however the most larger religions (well in Holland) are getting less "do what the preacher/reverant says". Off course that doesn't mean that there are no hardliners like Deus ?? from the RC church.

 

[Wij]

Originally posted by Any
If you dont know then this is Pascal's Wager. It is massively flawed.

Anyway, i suppose im agnostic. Like Scooba, i could be convinced by a miracle.

I did an essay on an exam about Pascal's Wager Philosophy of Religion was my favourite subject.

 

[Anasyn]

I personally don't believe in any God or Jesus, messiahs or prophets..
Infact lots of modern religions disgust me. The fact is that the "behavior codes" mentioned earlier, in several cases PROMOTE not just causing individuals harm, but outright murder, and in some cases damned genocide. I for one find that sickening and atrocious. Left purely to religion, 50% of the people on this planet would have been killed by one group or another. (This also on top of the scum who and to quote Red Dwarf: "Use religion as an excuse to be really crappy to each other").
The crap that gets me though, if there really was a god, surely he wouldn't be so damned self-centered in his omnipotence as to say "Sure, as long as you believe I exist you can get into heaven regardless of what you do. But if you don't believe in me you could be a damned saint, it doesn't matter you're going to hell" as one or two religions would have you believe (namely christianity). I find that totally farcical myself, dunno about the rest of you, as an objective outside looking in anyway.
Many people have tried to get me to become one religion or another, jewish, muslim, christian, catholic, that really dodgy one that takes your money, all sorts. Although in all honesty, although I'm an atheist, I probably follow the basic principles of Taoism than anything else. "Do your best and make life as good as you can, cos when you die, that's it, you're worm food." Which I think personally works quite well for me.
I also believe that the whole idea of religion is now out-dated. Modern religion was, I believe, concieved in the dark/even older ages as a way to explain things that people wanted knowing that current knowledge couldn't explain at all:
"Why do we exist?" "Cos there's an all-powerful omnipotent being called God who created it."
It was also a way of providing answers that would keep the masses in-line:
"What happens if I don't do what you say?" "I rule by the command of God, you defy me, you're defying Him. Defy Him and you'll end up in hell for all of eternity" etc
Yes I'll admit that we still don't hold all of the answers yet either, but we're a damned sight smarter than they were, like the whole diseases being because you did something bad? No, it's because the levels of hygiene weren't sufficient 99% of the time. If the europeans had tidied up after themselves a little more (a thing some could still do with doing now ), then the Black Death would probably not have happened.

So in conclusion:
No, God does not exist, it's a ploy, to distract those who'd rob you blind and make you feel good about it.
No, heaven does not exist. It's a ploy to keep you following those who'd seek to rule with no legitimate claim.
No, modern religion isn't a viable solution, it's a socially acceptable way of committing the most twisted atrocities mankind has ever seen.

ps. Maybe some of the ancient religions had it right? Although strangely most of them seem to worship aliens or creatures you see when you're stoned nine sheets to the wind. Coincidence considering half of the ceremonies seemed to involve narcotics? Surely not

Sorry about being a bore and going on so much, but I feel most of it had to be said, and as a reward for reading so long.. Bill Hicks!

The late Bill Hicks
If Jesus ever was reborn, do you think he'd ever want to see another fucking cross again?

 

[mr.Blacky]

The fact is that the "behavior codes" mentioned earlier, in several cases PROMOTE not just causing individuals harm, but outright murder, and in some cases damned genocide

errmm where does the bible, thora or the bible say that? in all the books it is said: you shall not kill and love your neighbour, well I will love my neighbour habba habba most people seem to forget those sentences tho, but then again they are really believers in power and hate.

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

Originally posted by Anasyn
<snip massive uneducated rant>

To start off with it'd be nice for you to name ANY major religion which promotes genocide, murder or being harmful to other people as I'm sitting here trying to think of one let alone several.

So in conclusion:
No, God does not exist, it's a ploy, to distract those who'd rob you blind and make you feel good about it.

Seriously? What on Earth are you on about? There is not a single serious religion whose tenants are 'Let me rob you'. For example please point to where in the Bible it requests that you give all your money to those in charge? Surely that'd be the logical place for it given that it's a fundamental cornerstone of Christianity.

No, heaven does not exist. It's a ploy to keep you following those who'd seek to rule with no legitimate claim.

Again, who? Taking the example of Christianity who are we meant to follow with the exception of a God? Virtually every religion encourages you to worship with the aid and direction of a holy man of some kind, not to give them all your money and follow their every command.

No, modern religion isn't a viable solution, it's a socially acceptable way of committing the most twisted atrocities mankind has ever seen.

What modern religion has committed "most twisted atrocities mankind has ever seen"? Before you answer please bear in mind that fundamentalists DO NOT represent religions, much the same way that people who kill people whilst drunk do not represent the majority.

 

[Sir Frizz]

Originally posted by Scooba Da Bass
Yet that's exactly the point, it's a faith. At school did you require proof for everything you were told? You've never been to Pluto yet you take it on faith that it exists.

Not being pedantic intentionally, but actually seeing it is enough. There is more evidence to suggest there is a planet Pluto than there is some sentient being.

As for it being some kind of propaganda to keep people in check, why is that a bad thing? The majority of religions have a behaivour code that if followed would make the world almost an infinitely better place

Not saying it's a bad thing really, but taking advantage of something like it, meh...not in all cases, but some people would give everything they have in order to please some priest who says it should be like "this". Agreed it would make for a better place, but religion is far from perfect, and i believe that without it and its flaws, the world would be "a better place".

Hopefully this makes sense, i've had a few JD and cokes.

 

[pcg79]

Originally posted by Anasyn
The fact is that the "behavior codes" mentioned earlier, in several cases PROMOTE not just causing individuals harm, but outright murder, and in some cases damned genocide.

hmm i dont know about that but i know 'old' jewish law promoted eye for an eye revenge.

 

[Damini]

The only person I've ever written hate mail to is Jack Chick.

 

[Tom]

I'm open minded about the whole afterlife thing. The point is, can any of you imagine not existing? I don't think thats possible, therefore, for me, not continuing in some form of altered existence after I die, is unimaginable. I'd quite like to meet my loved ones after I die, its a lovely concept, and one that I'd like to be true.

Whatever you believe, it implies a degree of intelligent thought, but more importantly, a lot of faith (atheist or no). Please don't get faith confused with religious feeling.

The heaven/hell concept was most likely a means of controlling the populace. Christianity, and many other religions, have had a stabilising effect on civilisations for many thousands of years.

Ask the converted S.Americans if they preferred their gods, or the gods that the Spanish conquistadors brought over. I don't think religion can be blamed for any of the world's problems, saying that is denying Man's basic instinct to compete, and also transferring blame away from his own thoughts/actions (It wasn't me, it was my religion it made me do it!)

 

[DaGaffer]

Originally posted by Scooba Da Bass
To start off with it'd be nice for you to name ANY major religion which promotes genocide, murder or being harmful to other people as I'm sitting here trying to think of one let alone several.

Well, unfortunately, any religion that uses the old testament as part of its tenets has the potential for that kind of abuse and has been used as a justification for all kinds of horrible stuff down the centuries (slavery and apartheid both have old testament justifications, attitudes towards homosexuality, ditto). The new testament is a bit less abhorrent but still not whiter than white.

I think the point is that religion is one of the most useful tools ever created to oppress and justify that oppression - racism often goes hand in hand with religion because it makes it an easier 'sell' than out and out 'I don't like him because he's not one of us' stuff. The other big oppression tools, nationalism and political ideology are distant runners up to religion in the oppression stakes (although they've made spectacular gains in the last century that old time religion still tops 'em).

None of this is to say that the principles of religion are wrong (generally summarised as "be nice") but organised religion in general has more problems than its worth IMHO.

 

[mr.Blacky]

Well, unfortunately, any religion that uses the old testament as part of its tenets has the potential for that kind of abuse and has been used as a justification for all kinds of horrible stuff down the centuries

But also has the potential for good, it is what the individual does with it, it is called free will. I can be mistaken but I thought that according to the OT man was created with the ability to choose between good and evil. Oh and the ability to argye about almost everything I think people can use everything for committing the worst of things.

 

[Ash!]

Originally posted by Tom[SHOTTEH]
I'm open minded about the whole afterlife thing. The point is, can any of you imagine not existing? I don't think thats possible, therefore, for me, not continuing in some form of altered existence after I die, is unimaginable. I'd quite like to meet my loved ones after I die, its a lovely concept, and one that I'd like to be true.

I suppose from a philospical point of view even when you die its only the physical side that goes. As everyone still remembers you when you are gone, you exist but not physically if that makes sense.

I suppose the same can be said of those people who say I dont believe in god. By saying that you dont belive in something is acknowledging the thing you say you dont believe in. Therefore does it not exist ??? If that is the case then god must exist

 

[Maljonic]

I think the original question should have been:

Do you believe in God ?
or any spiritual presence etc.

I think a lot of folks are mixing belief in God or whatever with religion, which in modern times doesn't really have to come into it.

 

[DaGaffer]

Originally posted by mr.Blacky
But also has the potential for good, it is what the individual does with it, it is called free will. I can be mistaken but I thought that according to the OT man was created with the ability to choose between good and evil. Oh and the ability to argye about almost everything I think people can use everything for committing the worst of things.

That was my point - the key word is organised religion - most people are sheep and religion is a useful tool to keep people under control. I don't have any problems with people believing in God, buddha or the great green arklesiezure, (I'd class myself as 'open minded, but doubtful') but what purpose do all the religious trappings serve?

 

[mr.Blacky]

Ah but what has God to do with organised religion?
Not that this wasnt asked before

 

[Daffeh]

Originally posted by Ash!
I suppose the same can be said of those people who say I dont believe in god. By saying that you dont belive in something is acknowledging the thing you say you dont believe in. Therefore does it not exist ??? If that is the case then god must exist

Well i dont believe i have a million pounds in my bank balance.
So by denying its existance i infact have a healthy bank balance?

That arguement doesnt work.