Discuss! Relic Raids!

[Maleg]

Main problem with Relic Raids as I see it is they actual fighting part of a Relic Raid isn't an enjoyable activity in itself. It usually boils down to a massive Zerg fight @ 1 FPS at a Relic Keep, if the defenders manage to get even a half decent sized defense force inside the game is over for the attackers.

The result is Relic Raids are generally for the sole purpose of getting a Relic (rather than enjoyable RvR) and thus success or failure is solely measured on the Relic balance at the end of the raid.

Raids could be generally characterised into 3 classes:

Massive Zerg, where one realm has total domination in numbers and can afford to just stroll up and take keeps on the way and overwhelm with numbers (much like Midgard did to Hib very early on in the game release). Don't think any realm can do this now.

Stealth Attack, where attacker realm stealths either a zerg or 'treb groups' to a Relic Keep in the hope of getting a Relic away before a decent defense can be organised.

Non-primetime raids, I guess it's a subset of the above, but the attackers use the online playing numbers to reduce the defensive force - give a larger chance of getting to RK without being detected.

Either way at the end of the day the problem is Mythic's (which they've recognised and are trying to address with Frontiers). They need to incorporate the fight for Relics into a much broader RvR experience that is spread out over a much larger portion of the frontier to avoid degraded play due to crap FPS. Until Frontiers is implemented (and even then there are no guarentees), if a Realm want's Relics that badly they will resort to one of the tatics above.

 

[Starbuck]

if servers were open to other coutnries there would be people playing 24 hours...ofc there would be peak periods but there would alwasy be someone fighting.

Personally i've never been on a relic raid where you can actaully function properly due to the large numbers in the area..maybe I need a super comupter to eliminate this..or more sensibly we shoudl restrict numbers that can go in zones so there is no lag.

Lag = no fun but this has huge implications on the game.

shame really

See what happens in new frontiers..fingers crossed.

 

[Durgi]

Tbh this whole discussion boils down to when do people consider it a decent time to raid. Reality of it is the game is a 24/7 game, every hour is a good time to raid, its just personal preference,. I congratulated the hibs on there late night raid it was very well done and well controlled. I know this as i watched them from the beginning of the raid, till just about the end when I was simply to tired to stay online anymore. Prime time relic raidining is my preference, anyone can take a relic at 4am tbh its not a great deal of a challenge. Though I will say I've had some real good defences at 3am, when just a few defenders can make a difference.

However, in this world of ToA and Master level abilities, power drain storms, power nodes, speed traps, end debuff storms and many many other ML abilities that aren't ment to effect rvr in any way according to mythic, the ease with which one can take a relic at such hours has increased greatly. The amount of dmg your average group can take has increased dramatically. And should a relic force regardless of time of day get set up properly inside a keep, it takes a great deal to dislodge them and the capture of a relic is almost garaunteed. What distablizes such matters are gross errors in realm balancing on mythics part.. Late night raiding is a joke for a realm such as hibernia take a couple of perfectors for power field a few animist and the entire pve side of assault on the keep is a joke. Midgard again can reduce the guard killing to powerfield and sm pbae, similarly albion with pf and ice wizzies. However, the gt setting of animist gives them a massive advatage as they are capable of killing any wizards who are around in a matter of seconds on battlements. Where Midgard and Albion require people to go hit them. Yes Albion has the minstrel to help. With such things in place there is absolutely no reason why Hibernia should attempt a prime time raid, as to face a defence would not benefit their style of combat. Albion and Midgard however are on pretty even terms when it comes to the types and strength of forces they can muster for a prime time raid or defence. The Hibernia Defence is second too none. It's near impossible to gain control of a Hibernia controlled Keep, and near impossible to move with 1000 shrooms around. Yes you can if extremely well organised oust a Hibernia defended keep, but it requires great planning and alot of preparation. I won't go into details publically but the Animist can be neutralised.

So whats my preference? Prime time every time. I don't do alarm clock raids nor pre-planned late night raids, I will attack a relic keep at 3 am if the situation evolves into it. I never once got out of bed for Roo's sunday morning jaunts to Excalibur Castle, nor did I join Dwera's late night excursions. The whole point of prime time raiding for me is the challenge. Getting a relic size force to a RK unseen prime time is a monumental challenge. And its one worthy of note. Plus at prime time you can get the casual players invlved and they can enjoy being part of something that is exciting difficult and should you succeed greta for the realm and not just a few individuals like most pve raids. Everyone benefits from the capturing of a relic not just those lucky in a lotto. Plus in Mid/pryd at least the relic raids are one of the few times the realm comes together united under one cause, and theres alot less casual vs rvr elitest divide. We all have one objective and the usual everyday bitching is put aside.

Enough rambling.. Summary all times are good I prefer Prime time though.

D.

 

[Sarumancer]

Hard to take mid and alb keeps compared to Hibs (the design is moronic in hib keeps, cmon you know it.

Hibs excel at working together, we have to, were outnumbered 2 to 1 by both other realms, and we have a couple of great leaders and people who can and will sort issues out.

As for the animist dig, there are perhaps half a dozen, maybe more animists who rvr at all regularly, sure you can see a flood of /alt animists stream out in the event of a relic raid, but theyre no real threat. The Cap of max shrooms next patch will fix that. 1.70 patches further nerf and hurt animists and youll see all the fotm weenies bugger off and wait for the next fotm (reavers Im betting).

It was hard for Hib to raid albs or mids, 100hibs in that zone, zone crashes, conversely Dagda seems to be able to withstand 150 mids and 80 odd hibs (plus 30-40 albs) roaming aroudn. Kind of an uphill fight when the enemy can take your relics, but you cant get at theirs.

Its an open server, raid as and when you want, Hibs will raid whenever they can and put up as tough a fight as they possibly can in the face of being outnumbered and in many cases outgunned. Im sure the Alb and Mid side of the fence goes "Hib is so overpowered", but from our viewpoint, we have hostiles on both sides who have classes and abilitys that shred us

 

[atos]

More primetime raids and less defence. You can still zerg in Emain at the same time. Let relics move arond more. And less interupting my mjollnir!

 

[Kreig]

it's a game.

or should be.

Aye and as such who cares at the end of the day, respect or no respect, relics or no relics. Yea they might help make you do more dmg but the realms anit gunna stop if xxxxx loses them and xxxxxx gains them.

Shit happens and thats all there is to it. Like many ppl have already said its a 24hr server, yes most ppl have 9 - 5 jobs or school etc and that conviently makes prime-time 6pm - 12am. But there are ppl who play from different time zones or work at different times and as such this whole "respect" for prime-time raids, yea it is harder durring those times. But some ppl play for fun (others for IRL repsect?) and i know many realm raids failed and ppl get disheartened anoyied angry etc etc so its just easier and less hassle.

But above all else any Raid that is pulled off is an Acheivement in itself and should be acknowledged as that instead of the "Oh they can only do alarm clock raids etc etc"

 

[nuky]

Hard to take mid and alb keeps compared to Hibs (the design is moronic in hib keeps, cmon you know it.

Hibs excel at working together, we have to, were outnumbered 2 to 1 by both other realms, and we have a couple of great leaders and people who can and will sort issues out.

As for the animist dig, there are perhaps half a dozen, maybe more animists who rvr at all regularly, sure you can see a flood of /alt animists stream out in the event of a relic raid, but theyre no real threat. The Cap of max shrooms next patch will fix that. 1.70 patches further nerf and hurt animists and youll see all the fotm weenies bugger off and wait for the next fotm (reavers Im betting).

It was hard for Hib to raid albs or mids, 100hibs in that zone, zone crashes, conversely Dagda seems to be able to withstand 150 mids and 80 odd hibs (plus 30-40 albs) roaming aroudn. Kind of an uphill fight when the enemy can take your relics, but you cant get at theirs.

Its an open server, raid as and when you want, Hibs will raid whenever they can and put up as tough a fight as they possibly can in the face of being outnumbered and in many cases outgunned. Im sure the Alb and Mid side of the fence goes "Hib is so overpowered", but from our viewpoint, we have hostiles on both sides who have classes and abilitys that shred us

imo, that old hib war cry of being out numbered died a long time ago

 

[Ctuchik]

imo, that old hib war cry of being out numbered died a long time ago

ur saying they aint? well they are

about the RR times.. i dont care when ppl RR, if im online and not to tired il join in.. but i still prefer primetime raids. they are more fun even if u loose....

call me stupid or whatever. but i like to have my enemy players have a chance of defending their relics.... more satisfying if u acually DO get resistance at a RR but manage to take them anyway....


almost as good as sex when uve done a succesfull primetime raid and seing the messages that xxx relic have been placed in xxx relic keep

and was acually a fun change when hibs finally got some relics now they have a reason to go to emain more

 

[behatch]

I think that raiding at 4am is fine.I know others dont,but then again i also know some people get pissed off when they lose relics..tbh the only time i really cared was when i played my sb,when infils where booming and relics made a lot off difference but i wouldnt get mad..i just didnt play my sb aha

Raid when you want imo!

 

[behatch]

almost as good as sex when uve done a succesfull primetime raid and seing the messages that xxx relic have been placed in xxx relic keep
QUOTE]

Erm? I take it you have boned some crap girls no way is a game better than sex unless its win u munneh ;>

 

[Ctuchik]

i said ALMOST.. not as good or better as...

 

[Maleg]

imo, that old hib war cry of being out numbered died a long time ago

Hib still have significantly less players online. Simple fact is recently the whole realm mobilises when it needs to. We're not out numbered 2 to 1, more like 3 to 2 or 4 to 3.

In recent Relic defenses 90%+ of the Realms non-anon population has been in the Zone defending the Relic's. It's normally enough to push back the attack but you can't tell me that 90% of Midgards or Albions (if they attacked) population was there.

So we have less total numbers, but at the present time the moral of the realm means more are willing to get involved (which balances things out). Something for Hibs to be proud of I guess.

 

[Puppet]

So we have less total numbers, but at the present time the moral of the realm means more are willing to get involved (which balances things out). Something for Hibs to be proud of I guess.

Precisely. Just login on a Saturday on Hib; without quick-select and see an odd 1300-1500 on Prydwen and a /who in Hibernia gives 310.....


We arent really outnumbered in RvR really; then its pretty close to be honest. Thats because we got a higher avg. RvR-active population.

The problem arises when a substantially larger force of Mids/Albs goes into RvR to Relicraid. Then we have to call in EVERYONE to be close to the raiders population (often even abit lower).

 

[Balbor]

maybe the number of guards at a relic keep could be based on the active number of people playing at that time, so at night there would be a lot more, also lower population realms would have extra guards

 

[behatch]

maybe the number of guards at a relic keep could be based on the active number of people playing at that time, so at night there would be a lot more, also lower population realms would have extra guards

nerf!

 

[ilaya]

primetime Rr's...

cant be done to mid..

i love challenges u know.. get ready stinky trollz

hang on.. mids dont have relics.. thats odd since pryd is a mid server

come and try.. i'll be waiting

 

[Maleg]

maybe the number of guards at a relic keep could be based on the active number of people playing at that time, so at night there would be a lot more, also lower population realms would have extra guards

Doesn't matter, Mythic understand the Relic war situation isn't great at the present time and one of the main plans of Frontiers is to address it. Just hope whatever they come up with is more fun than what we have at the present time.

 

[Path]

Hypocrisy at it's best oO So now relics are supposed to change hands "honourably"? For the "challenge"? If people play for the pure challenge, why do Hibs want casters and support, and ditch the tanks? Or why do Mids ditch the thanes? Hell, it'd be quite challenging to run a thane meleegrp; you wanted a challenge, go for it

Sorry, but the argument has no validity whatsoever. Relics provide a bonus and are to be treated as such - since RRs are boring NM when you do them you want them to succeed - since succeeding at 5 am is far more likely than succeeding at 7 pm, morning raids all the way

The day Albion gets a pure tank that can spam FF indefinetely I'll agree to an even playing field for the relics :wub:

 

[Rustan]

since succeeding at 5 am is far more likely than succeeding at 7 pm, morning raids all the way

It is obvious this guy is very young, when he grows up he might understand the meaning of the word courage.

 

[willowywicca]

It is obvious this guy is very young, when he grows up he might understand the meaning of the word courage.

courage is often just another word for stupid

It'd be more fun doing primetime raids if the engine could handle it.. but frozen fps then one side dead (the attackers usually) isn't much fun

 

[Path]

It is obvious this guy is very young, when he grows up he might understand the meaning of the word courage.

The fact that you speak of "courage" in a computer game sort of makes me laugh TBH

 

[Platina]

People that do RRs at 5 in the morning needs to leave daoc for a wile imo and sort there irl, ofc some ppl maby have a day ore 2 off and joins but i doubt most of ppl who are in sush raids has jobs/gf´s/bf´s ore whatever.Its a 24/7 game and ppl are aloowed to do what they want during there online time no doubt about that but really cant se then fun in it , and omg we r00xxor attitude in certen ppls posts.Anyway hibs helped albs since they are cows xD this game have turned into 2 realms vs 1 like the other day we where fighting a high rr hib group and 4 alb stealthers added on ouer group xD much fun since they all got pwnd :>

And yes ive been to a late night RR ore 2 aswell and i got my own reason for it :>
Anyway albs dont ecspect to hav them for 2 long