Diablo III - Auction House

[Billargh]

Where did I ever say Diablo IS an mmo? I was just reiterating what Fuzzy said regarding other games using micro transactions.

 

[Lethul]

I'm gonna love it!

To be honest this is not a game for competitive gaming so it does not matter if someone can get more powerful by spending cash. Imho!

 

[pikeh]

I'm gonna love it!

To be honest this is not a game for competitive gaming so it does not matter if someone can get more powerful by spending cash. Imho!

They are balancing it for 3v3 arena afaik... Next big competitive game definately.

 

[BloodOmen]

Being similar to an MMO doesn't make it one.

It's not an MMO, simple as that.

Or you could say that because a dog is similar to a horse, it must be a horse.....

See where i'm getting at?

No one said Diablo was an MMO relax Ctuchik. What I actually said was "Every mmo will have it from now on" which they will.

Future of gaming stop living under a rock and deal with it.

 

[svartalf]

Money laundering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ctuchik]

Where did I ever say Diablo IS an mmo?

I never claimed you did.

I was arguing the parallel you made.

 

[old.Tohtori]

You don't have to use it.
You can use it if you want.
You can get everything without real money.
You can sell stuff you get this way for real money.

No downside for me.

 

[Ctuchik]

You can sell stuff you get this way for real money.

And that's where your argument stumbles a tad.

Doing anything other then browsing the AH will most likely cost you a fee.

I haven't actually paid any attention to this in the last few weeks so i don't know if they have changed anything.

But last i read about it Blizzard charges a fee for pretty much everything AH related.

And the biggest problem is if what you are selling doesn't sell, you are NOT getting your list fee back. Plus Blizzard takes a cut from the actual sale as well.

You may have money enough to not care, and so do i but it's the principle of the thing.

I don't dislike this because i can't afford to use it, i dislike it because it's morally pretty damn dodgy. And the way i see it, blizzard is by all intents and purposes going to use D3 as their new cash cow.

 

[Helme]

The listing fee is to discourage people putting up every single piece of shit item they find for real cash, and to hopefully be a bit realistic about the prices they set. Sure Blizzard will earn money on it, but I think the alternative would just be everyone abandoning in-game gold in favour of real life money when selling items.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well i'm not going to be using the real money auction anyway, unless i get some really big selling items(that's that times thing) and even if i did, i couldn't give two tosses about how much money blizzard makes, or if there's a sales fee.

Without the sales thing, i couldn't make at all money.
Now i can make, if i choose, with a 90%(or whatnot) payment.

Acceptable cost from free money.

Principles can go f*ck themselves as they are just greedy excuses to whine about pennies.

YEs i pretty much hate the "blizzard is just making moneys" argument that pops up in every gods damned discussion as some kind of a valid point, when it's just jellybaby bullsh*t.

 

[Ctuchik]

YEs i pretty much hate the "blizzard is just making moneys" argument that pops up in every gods damned discussion as some kind of a valid point, when it's just jellybaby bullsh*t.

Agree to a certain point, but not in these circumstances.

They have no real reason to do what they are doing. They could just have an AH driven by ingame gold. Then at least it wouldn't be any worse then in WoW.

This won't make botters, cheaters or hackers go away just because Blizzard thinks so. This is just going to make it worse because now they can make money out of it "legally", and make more people try to cheat because it will probably be quite tempting.

And in the end, Blizzard will quietly admit defeat and stop trying to police this the way they should. .

That said, cheaters needs to be taken out, but this has the potential to make even MORE people cheat.

 

[old.Tohtori]

The thing is, it's optional.

There's no harm to the gold AH from this as those who don't like spending real cash won't and there's plenty of players for both camps.

Those who want to try and make a buck can do so. Those who don't aren't forced.

Unless they've at some point during the last weeks have scrapped the gold AH completely.

 

[Ctuchik]

Yes it's technically optional. But if you for example are playing competitive pvp you will not really have a choice if you don't have the time or patience to grind the gear the normal way.

Someone will start RMT trading to get an edge and at that point everyone else pvp'ing will have to do the same if they want to compete.

Sure, with a ingame gold AH it would probably be the same, but then everyone kinda starts off with the same chance because played fair there's no outside influence. Now it will be down to who can spend the most money buying the gear.

To give a almost half accurate comparison, it's like pre purchasing minerals and gas in SC2 to use in ranked matches. Or paying to start off with prebuilt structures.

Yes there are positive things about having an AH such as this, at least for the casuals, but the negative things far outweighs them.

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yes it's technically optional. But if you for example are playing competitive pvp you will not really have a choice if you don't have the time or patience to grind the gear the normal way.

Someone will start RMT trading to get an edge and at that point everyone else pvp'ing will have to do the same if they want to compete.

Different way to look at it would be that now those who don't have as much time farming, can skip parts of it with cash. Competitive anything has always required time, and time is money in a nutshell.

PVP should never come own to gear anyway and in your SC2 comparison, even if you could start off with more minerals you wouldn't be quaranteed success.

 

[eksdee]

Couldn't agree more. If anything this levels the playing field in a broad sense. Of course there will be people who just buy everything and will be overgeared because of it, but the reality is those people are a) few and far between, b) usually bad players anyway and c) probably going to be equal to the amount of people who have the same gear that farmed it the normal way without any RMT'ing.

People without jobs farm and get a gear advantage, that is a reality in all MMOs (using MMOs as the closest reference point), this RMT auction house gives those with jobs a chance to 'buy back' the time differential.

I don't necessarily think this is the ultimate way to level the time input playing field in online gaming, but I honestly think it's worth a try if nothing else. I definitely do think, though, that this could be a make or break issue for the long-term success of D3 - especially for PvP.

 

[Ctuchik]

Different way to look at it would be that now those who don't have as much time farming, can skip parts of it with cash. Competitive anything has always required time, and time is money in a nutshell.

Sure, but if you lack time to farm you either have different priorities or just don't want to.

When real life money is involved it all switch to whoever has been lucky enough to get a job that pays well enough to support thr RMT trades..

PVP should never come own to gear anyway and in your SC2 comparison, even if you could start off with more minerals you wouldn't be quaranteed success.

No, maybe not in bronze or silver league where people are just mucking about. But in gold and above where people have started to sort out their macro strategies, it most likely will. As if you are just a few seconds late with something you have a big chance of losing if the 2 players are of equal skill and the other isn't late with anything.

And that is especially true at the top half of platinum league.

So starting off with a few hundred "bonus" resources makes a huge difference in CS2 as you can start expanding or upgrading troops long before you're opponent.

And no pvp should not come down to gear.

Couldn't agree more. If anything this levels the playing field in a broad sense. Of course there will be people who just buy everything and will be overgeared because of it, but the reality is those people are a) few and far between, b) usually bad players anyway and c) probably going to be equal to the amount of people who have the same gear that farmed it the normal way without any RMT'ing.

People without jobs farm and get a gear advantage, that is a reality in all MMOs (using MMOs as the closest reference point), this RMT auction house gives those with jobs a chance to 'buy back' the time differential.

I don't necessarily think this is the ultimate way to level the time input playing field in online gaming, but I honestly think it's worth a try if nothing else. I definitely do think, though, that this could be a make or break issue for the long-term success of D3 - especially for PvP.

Yes, a lot of people probably do sit all day long farming if they are unemployed, but far from everyone.

Just because you don't have a job doesn't mean you don't have anything to do, or even can be arsed to sit and farm.

When real life money is a determining factor if you are gonna win or lose instead of skill, then it's going to be more unfair then if only ingame gold were involved. Because it's easier to find more time to farm for gold or gear then finding a better paid job.

And if what's been posted above is true that D3 is gonna have competitive pvp, then it is going to be that way unless Blizzard does a WoW and tries to separate pve gear and pvp gear.

 

[eksdee]

It doesn't just have to be unemployed people though, it's just an example. Broadly what I mean is there will always be people who have access to better gear than you, be it pure luck, time input or ,in the case of D3, RMT'ing.

Besides, this RMT AH existing does not immediately mean people who buy gear will have an advantage. As you rightly say, gear should not be a determining factor over the course in any game with 'good' PvP, so if it is the case that someone who is prepared to waste, say, £100 on gear gets an instant advantage then the game is worth much of a shit in the first place because you could just replace that guy spending money with someone who farmed better/luckier/put in more time than you.

Gear is, sadly, the great imbalancer in almost all MMOs to a larger or smaller extent depending on the game. That's just a part of these types of games. If you want an absolutely even playing field, then play an FPS, RTS or Dota/HoN.

Edit: Just noticed one other thing; about the issue of farming gold being easier than finding a better job, I don't really see that as an issue - it's simply a time thing - more time for games = generally your income is probably lower than someone with less time for games. Extremely crass generalisation but I believe it probably holds true for the majority, hence why I feel the RMT AH may well be a decent balancer for people with less time to spend in-game. Not to mention, legitimate or not, people WILL use RMT to get an advantage. Better it be controlled by the maker of the game than private profiteering firms imo.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Also those who want to buy real life money gear, can already do so in any game around- Just that it's illegal, but impossible to police.

So if that system is brought into the game itself, it levels the playing field for those legally bound and doesn't remove anything from farm-gear.

If you want, you can and have always been able to, buy yourself to the top. This time it's simply brought to everyone, regardless of moral stance.

 

[Ctuchik]

Yes but when it becomes "legal" it becomes acceptable. And Blizzard -being as popular as they are- is going to scew the entire market towards this because more and more people will demand this from other games.

At the end of the day it's not about if people will do it regardless if it's legal or not, it's about that people will feel *forced* to do it because now they have an option other then finding more time to grind (but still haven't found a better paying job). And as the generally lazy fuckers humanity is, we rather spend money then time achieving something.

It is going to come around and bite us in the ass eventually as more and more games does this in more and more insane ways.

 

[old.Tohtori]

It's a skewed perspective though, assuming that most players would rather pay more to gain an advantage, then actually enjoy the game.

People aren't forced either, it's a choice, a valid choice that's been around for ages. Those that would do it, would by other means.

Those who feel they need to pay to get an advantage, would do so anyway. The rest, that this legalization bring, will not be competitive as the aforementioned skill comes to play. It's like giving someone a straight to masters league payment option in Starfruit(correction tool calls it starfruit!)

 

[old.Tohtori]

But all in all, it's fiddyfiddy what happens. Might work, might bomb, but one thing is certain; this will be used as the old excuse of "you bought your char of ebay".

 

[eksdee]

I don't really see how this system makes it any more forced than, for example, buying 20k gold (or whatever) in WoW to buy a Darkmoon card.

 

[Ctuchik]

I don't really see how this system makes it any more forced than, for example, buying 20k gold (or whatever) in WoW to buy a Darkmoon card.

Because buying gold in WoW is against the EULA, so most ppl won't do it even if they secretly want and could afford to.

In D3 it's gonna be legal so there's nothing holding people back if they want to.

Owell, the rage is pretty bad on the official D3 forum about this, and the fact that D3 can't be modded...

 

[old.Tohtori]

Because buying gold in WoW is against the EULA, so most ppl won't do it even if they secretly want and could afford to.

In D3 it's gonna be legal so there's nothing holding people back if they want to.

Owell, the rage is pretty bad on the official D3 forum about this, and the fact that D3 can't be modded...

That's bullcrap really, just assuming that most people want to buy gold.

Can't be modded? So what? Didn't need it before

 

[BloodOmen]

Actually you'll find the majority of the whiners on the D3 boards are complete noobs or thick as shit americans. The hardcore gaming community couldnt give 2 fucks about the RMAH because it quite simply doesnt effect them.

Much the same as it doesnt effect them now in other games where these sites sell items/characters/gold.

Its the casuals having a good cry over it because rather than spoon feed them epic/legendary quality items in short periods of time they'll either have to spend hours/weeks/months farming for them or dip into their wallets to do so.

The no modding thing is a gigantic shame tho, there was some amazing mods spawned from D2 this is a big mistake by blizzard tho I can see why they're doing it.

 

[Ctuchik]

That's bullcrap really, just assuming that most people want to buy gold.

I said "even IF they secretly wanted and could afford.

How does that translate to me assuming that most people *actually* wanted to buy ingame gold illegally?

Read the entire post (it really wasn't that long to begin with) please.

/edit: and do a quick search for D2 mods and you will find that there is a need for it, and that there is a thriving community around them still.

You might not need them but you are not everyone.

 

[old.Tohtori]

so most ppl won't do it even if they secretly want and could afford to.

In D3 it's gonna be legal so there's nothing holding people back if they want to.

Quite clearly states that most people don't buy gold simply because of illegality and that they would if it was legal.

Which i called bullcrap on.

Mods bring problems as well. D3 will have modding in the future, after the game has died down. Taking modding tools from possible griefers is fine, enjoy the game as intended.

If i remember correctly, D2 modding wasn't a big requirement for people when it launched either. Do not compare a launchtitle to a years old title that does need modding.

 

[svartalf]

KABOOM! Shitstorm!

South Korea to make virtual item trade, bots illegal
by Jef Reahard on Jun 15th 2012 1:00PMFantasy, Business models, Game mechanics, MMO industry, News items, Free-to-play, Legal, Diablo III0


Do you want to buy and sell virtual items? Do you live in South Korea? If you answered "yes" to both of those questions, you'd better get it out of your system prior to next month (or be prepared to do it illegally). A new law is being developed that will ban real money trading and block gold- and item-farming bots.

The South Korean Ministry of Culture says that "the main purpose of games is for entertainment and [they] should be used for academic and other good purposes," according to a report at Eurogamer.

This is bad news for gold farmers, RMT fans, and Blizzard, which has come under fire for Diablo III's real-money auction house over the past few weeks. The Ministry of Culture went on to say that RMT "contribute to many problems in society, including teenage crime."

• Source: Eurogamer

Tags: action-rpg, auction-house, battlenet, blizzard, blizzard-entertainment, bots, botting, breaking, cash-shop, d3, diablo, diablo-2, diablo-3, diablo-ii, diablo-iii, f2p, fantasy, free-to-play, gothic-fantasy, multiplayer, online-multiplayer, rmt, roguelike, rpg, south-korea-bans-bots, south-korea-bans-rmt

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[ECA]

Actually you'll find the majority of the whiners on the D3 boards are complete noobs or thick as shit americans. The hardcore gaming community couldnt give 2 fucks about the RMAH because it quite simply doesnt effect them.

Much the same as it doesnt effect them now in other games where these sites sell items/characters/gold.

Its the casuals having a good cry over it because rather than spoon feed them epic/legendary quality items in short periods of time they'll either have to spend hours/weeks/months farming for them or dip into their wallets to do so.

The no modding thing is a gigantic shame tho, there was some amazing mods spawned from D2 this is a big mistake by blizzard tho I can see why they're doing it.

I can't, given that SC2 is on bnet2.0 and has really awesome modding capabilities.