Dex and Evade.

Bubble

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
5,355
ouch :(

Feel sorry for all you kobbies

Now i remember why i hate VN boards, once you get to page 3 they are just whining about Friars lol
 

Arlone

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
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48
first test doesnt show much (100 swings is not enough by far) but one of the newer replies shows a test with 900 swings and that "proved" the same thing ...

but in the end all test have a very big margin of error. Some used shamans (very low WS) as the attacker in their tests and that proves nothing. Others used DualWielders as attackers and that doesnt work very good either.

Also the equation for evade might be something like (DEX+QUI)/2, like said on vn-boards, and that will also make a diffrance in their tests.

Give me a test between a primary tank class (one-hander) hitting an assasin that has no bonus to dex/qui (no buffs and no bonus from items), then add 75 dex from items (!) and redo test and lastly add 75 qui from items instead (removing dex ofc.) and run the test a last time. That, in my mind, would atleast prove something.

I'm not gonna change anything in my setup until I know for sure this "bug" exit at all. Seriously doubt it tho. :)
 

Holt

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
91
Hmm, I think I remember being told when i started my friar that evade was 100% QUI based... ofc still need DEX for the staff so nothing said would really affect me
 

Belorfyn

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
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319
Check this reply.

.6 % more parry, 5.6 % better block and -2% evade

Because block and parry occur before evade in the chain-of-resolution. Edit: Had your evade NOT gone down once the Dex got buffed I would have been surprised - because your other defenses become more effective with higher Dex.

You need to do this test using a class that has Evade as their only "active" defense. The shield and parry are tossing your test out the window as completely unreliable. You also omit the number of misses which means we can't crunch your test for ourselves.

Edit #2: Actually the more I think about it, it can be used as an argument to show that Dex does improve your evade, since your evade rate dropped by only 2% where-as your other defenses increased by over 5% each. In theory had Dex not improved your evade your rate should have tanked completely given the increases in block/parry.
Makes sense to me so that might be it. Parry and block rate increases with +dex so much that total % of evades decreases little, because parry and block are purely dex based so it's obvious that they benefit more from +dex than evade (if it's dex/qui).

Can't be sure of this of course, I haven't thought much about this but the above quote makes sense to me.
To get some real results, they probably should test it with SB who doesn't have parry and without shield.
 

Arlone

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
48
Belorfyn said:
Check this reply.



Makes sense to me so that might be it. Parry and block rate increases with +dex so much that total % of evades decreases little, because parry and block are purely dex based so it's obvious that they benefit more from +dex than evade (if it's dex/qui).

Can't be sure of this of course, I haven't thought much about this but the above quote makes sense to me.
To get some real results, they probably should test it with SB who doesn't have parry and without shield.
keep reading ... people will correct his mistake ;)

Evade occurs before anything else. So his post is .. well .. wrong!
 

Belorfyn

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
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319
Arlone said:
keep reading ... people will correct his mistake ;)

Evade occurs before anything else. So his post is .. well .. wrong!
Oh okay :)
 

Tasslehoff

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Messages
1,925
Well, i think its stupid that the guys change their sc because of this. If/when Mythic sees this bug, they will change it and they will have to buy all new sc gear... So i'll stay with my dex :p
 

Bubble

Can't get enough of FH
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Dec 22, 2003
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Shadowblades test it, with a Baseline +50ish Dex they get something like +1% evade or something silly like that(through that could have just been a random increase)

It would require more testing by shadowblades, An Unarmoured Shadowblade against an unarmoured warrior/shaman with a basic weapon.
 

Jpeg QuickStix

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
94
dex/quick afaik determines evade ,

cba reading vn boards they full of crap mostly with not many READABLE threads :)
 

asarithia

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 25, 2003
Messages
46
i've read a similar test about SBs and evade and dex ect.. and as some people have said here. 100 swings isn't enough. and for kobold SBs, well, it's a damn shame it says when you make a kobold rogue that kobols will make excellent shadowblades. heck, make all kobold SBs trolls instead as dex seems to give nothing from the tests i've seen. :(
 

Joxor

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
47
Well you gotta think about the Dodge RA tho....
For Dodger you need Aug Quick, not dex.

But imho i think its a nice formula of dex+qui/2=evade (or something close to that)
In otehrwords its both dex and qui together...
Cant be arsed to dig thru the hundreds of pages of IGNwhine but did they do a test with both dex+qui?
 

Cybwyn

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
251
As far as I know....

Evade Chance = ((DEX+QUI)/2 - 50) / 10 + Evade Level * 5 + Dodger Level *3

Then your opponent's weaponskill, number of attackers, etc are taken into account.
 

Driwen

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
932
the thing is that there is a test with 900 swings in that thread that seems to indicate dex isnt an influence at all. Offcourse there should be extra testing to be sure this is correct and as Im a hunter, this isnt so important to me anyway and I cant be bothered to do a 900+swing test three times to be sure wether it works or not:p.
 

Laston

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
380
Jpeg QuickStix said:
dex/quick afaik determines evade ,

cba reading vn boards they full of crap mostly with not many READABLE threads :)

soooo trueeee :puke:
 

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