Dev or Admin?

[Chilly]

So I'm about to finish the graduate training scheme at the company I work for (18 months working for six different teams in three countries) and I've come to a significant crossroads in my career.

I have the opportunity to become, essentially, eitehr a dev (probably java) or a sysadmin (linux, solaris, storage systems, db platforms) and I cant make my mind up.

As far as I know there isnt much to choose between in terms of pay for a senior dev or senior admin (or is there?). I've also heard it's harder to go back to coding once one has been an admin.

So: to all the professional geeks out there (hairdressers and professional pidgeon worriers need not apply): what the fuck should I do? What have your experiences been like in said sectors and what would you change if you could?

A pint for the most useful post - via paypal or in person depending how far away you are.

Cheers.

 

[TdC]

dudezor, I suppose you could call me an admin by your definition. I'm a senior person in my dept. I do all kinds of things tech, like admin servers, participate in/run projects scaling up to millions of euros, define procedures for the guys to do, dream up schemes to help the dept run more efficiently excetera. My current fave thing is coaching the juniors, which a couple of years ago would have seemed strange to me as it's less hands-on tech and more managerial, but I suppose it's a career choice (or not).

I admit I sometimes look at our devs and wish I was one of them with a slightly envious twinge, and I actually have been invited on numerous occasions to join them in their rampant nerditry, but I never have. This is because my current scope of work is very very wide. I can do all kinds of things in my dept, and can participate in any level of projects etc. Were I to become a dev, I certainly would have my lust to create things filled, but I think at the end of the day I'd feel restricted and frustrated because area in which I could apply myself would be narrower.

Don't get me wrong, imo it's awesome to make stuff and see it run, but currently in the position I am in now I can do more and imo it's more forfilling.

 

[`mongoose]

Are you a jack of all trades or do you like to seriously code?

Personally - I think most devs can be spotted a mile off. They simply enjoy programming/developing systems. If you find yourself coding stuff up just to see how it's done in this language or that language then you should go dev.

If that isn't the case - I'd go system admin.

I'm a jack of all trades myself - I've coded for websites and systems in the past but it didn't really switch any buttons for me.

I find most enjoyment from providing solutions and solving connection issues. We've just managed to get a listed 13th century monastery that we teach IT in (yeah good choice of building, not!) connected to our network after 4 years of trying various shitty alternatives. That gives me a feeling of satisfaction. Stuff like that is why I put up with the endless low level gripes about a system and it's responsiveness from people who know fuck all about systems and who (if left to their own devices) seem to spend most of their time downloading and installing various spy and malware infested shitty tool bars, desktop pets and other bullshit onto their computers.

Personally - I'd look at what you enjoy about your job. Fuck what I found enjoyable. I'm not you - it's what you do that counts. Remember that you can always reskill and change direction. Very few career choices in life will stop you doing something else completely should you decide that you made the wrong decision.

Whichever way you decide - BOFH or Nerdgrammer - best of luck and I hope you enjoy it

m

 

[Chilly]

well both sets of roles in the company I work for are seriously hard work. we are a 365/24/7 online operation that actually has a working business model and makes cash so if a system is down we cant just fanny about and say "fuck it who cares" cos we lose serious dorrar every minute its down. I'm kind of a jack of all trades but iv been developing systems for years in all sorts of languages and I'm confident I could become a good developer in any language or environment. However I do really like big cool machines that takes some serious prodding and coaxing to get to full potential.


meh!

 

[TdC]

we have a combined role in BigCompany that we call a "systems integrator". this role leans heavily on both admin and dev skills, as it is the job of this person to translate the dld/lpad/architect speak etc to something that exists in the real world.

in our case the good ones are fully clued in to the diverse unix flavours, as well as being completely up to speed regarding the diverse application (servers) and middleware components, besides also being able to read/create/debug (mostly) java code and application output.

In a nutshell their job is to keep the complex chain of systems working together, leaving the admins free to concentrate on delivering and maintaining servers and the devs free to do their software delivery stuffs. Imo this would be more along your line of intrest because it's a half way house between both worlds. This works for BigCompany because we have specialist roles for just about everything, and segregation of rights et al. The SI loses access to the systems the moment the project has been delivered to the organisation, eg they only run projects, but hey, you can't have your cake and eat it too

 

[Dreamor]

By the looks of it I'd be a sysadmin as well, and have been for the past 4 years. I originally went down the Dev route (3 years) but it gets very boring very quickly (depending on where you work of course, for me it was IBM <spit>)

Mongoose is spot on with his comments, Dev's can be picked out a mile off. They all have very similar traits and generally speaking keep to themselves. I found that it was a very lonley task which is why I went the sysadmin role.

I did a lot of backup and storage during my time at IBM and things seems to change so often it kept the work 'fresh' for a lot longer.

On the harder switching back, my housemate is a Dev in numerous stuff with the place I work at now and he flicks between Dev and Sysadmin all the time but I must admit that Dev's (again, from my experience) get a lot of bad habits and as a sysadmin I only ever have problems with the other Dev's and them getting little hissy fits for permissions/requests.

I'd say one benefit of a sysadmin is you get a lot better knowledge over a broader range of products than a Dev does (having spoken to a lot of Dev's recently) which seems to put you in a good position for the future should you want to move.

Generally its down to you, can you see yourself sat there for endless hours? alone (Dev time!)

 

[SilverHood]

I started of as customer support. Then did development. Now in a sysadmin / dba / support role.

If I could, I would jump at a development position. It's so much more rewarding to see people use your apps, than knowing the issue you fixed in 45 minutes would have taken someone else 2 hours to fix. And you still got shit for the thing being down for 45 mins.

Secondly, working hours: As a dev, I had flexible hours. I could come in at 7.45AM, leave at 4.45PM, or come in at 9.15 and leave at 6.15. Or whatever, boss didn't care as long as I didn't take the piss, did my hours and my work was good.
Now, I have to be in at either 8, 9 or 10. (And leave at 5,6 or 7). No flexibility, unless I arrange to swap with a team member. And we're on call, so Hong Kong calls me at all hours to ask for stuff. Not fun.

The dealbreaker for me is that there's a lot less stress as a dev. Even though the apps I was making were being used for making million dollar bets on commodity prices, it was pretty laid back. Now, supporting a trading desk which has millions on the line, I really can't afford to fuck up, and I get home worn out and tired most nights.

I haven't encountered any issues with moving between the two, we have people at work who move between devs and admins within the business. Normally you'd do admin stuff before dev stuff, to get an understanding of the systems, but sometimes it's the other way around, with devs taking over senior admin roles because they need a change of pace.

 

[Milkshake]

It's a good question Chilly. I always thought I'd be doing development work after Uni, but have gone straight into a sysadmin job.

As far as I can tell, this suits me better - crazy as that may seem.

* I find myself interacting with more people from a far wider set of teams.
* I enjoy coming in and not knowing what is going to be on my plate for the day.
* I enjoy the bigger responsibility and risk - my work does not go through a rigorous Q&A process, but is just as and can be more valuable.
* I find, even at the young stage in the career that I'm at, I'm already making a difference within the company I work with. As a Dev, I'm not sure I'd ever really get to that stage.

However, i've never worked as a Dev, so my perception is skewed.

Just don't be a tester.

 

[Jupitus]

I think both roles are heavily dependant on the environment you are in to be at their best (or worst, of course). I would suggest, though, that it would likely be easier to learn dev then go sysadmin than the other way round and hence if unsure I would probably try dev first. If you have an aptitude for coding then it should be straightforward to switch between languages as things progress, or indeed to try something else and then go back to dev work.

The sysadmin stuff is more reliant on up to date knowledge and would be tougher to try, change, and then revert to, I reckon.

 

[Chilly]

Cheers all.

I already have 6 languages under my belt and numerous applications written over the years. I'm fully qualified to go into a lot of dev roles but I dont think I want to. I seclusion and segregation from the rest of the company would do my head in a bit I think, I want to talk to lots of people and not have to spend my hours doing plumbing (lets face it, a lot of coding is just the boring stuff. Rarely do you actually get to come up with a cool new algorithm or process and do some truely novel and difficult work).

 

[Jupitus]

That's what I mean about it being dependant on environment... my Dad was amongst the first people coding CAD systems, and that was cool. Maintaining someone else's shit code and doing bug fixes isn't.

 

[Dark Orb Choir]

Chilly, Sysadmin/Support jobs you need people skillz, devs you don't really need to talk to users really, thats something to think about.

Also, coders get burnt out easily (i started my IT career as an operator then a programmer/analyst programmer/business analyst now i do Sysadmin)

i was burnt out at 30 doing coding, the Sysadmin work i do now is still stressful but no way near the dev side of things.

I really enjoy fixing things with the support side of things and dif you are a person that gets satisfaction out of helping other people thne the Sysadmin side is the way to go, if you do not want any contact with users then the Dev side is the way to go, it is really down to personal choice.

In the 11 years i have done support i have forgotten most of the programming skills i had (Cobol/DB2/CICS/Fortran/VB3,4, and 6/c++) so thats something to think about as well.

but the main difference i see if as a Dev you are always using bits of somebodies code to make something new or rehassing old shit code to make something less shit, as a Sysadmin you are problem solving and using your brain most of the time, imo Sysadmin is more rewarding than Developement.

You are always going to have pc's networks etc fucking up, Dev budgets get cut.


hope that helped

Richard

 

[Chilly]

ta brooky, good intel.

 

[old.user4556]

All i'm going to say on this subject is look at what's the easiest to offshore.

 

[pcg79]

wow is everyone (except me) here working in IT then!??!

 

[taB]

wow is everyone (except me) here working in IT then!??!

I use e-mail and spreadsheets occasionally, does that count?

 

[KevinUK]

Are you all sys admins? I can't imagine doing admin, I'm on my 4th place of work with a maximum of 15 months at one place. I've found coding varies in fun and interest greatly depending upon the company.

 

[rynnor]

All i'm going to say on this subject is look at what's the easiest to offshore.

Its a good point - best thing to do is aim to become a business analyst - code monkeys are cheap and readily available in india etc. but they dont have business knowledge.

The other possibility is to learn a mainframe language - no-one in india wants to learn them so they cant be outsourced

One day this will make me a load of money

 

[GReaper]

I can see the problem you're facing, the balance between sysadmin and dev is an awkward one. To me the role of a sysadmin feels a lot more varied, the role of a programmer feels like focusing into one narrow path. Having programming knowledge as a sysadmin is a useful tool, so it's not as if you leave it behind entirely.

I enjoy coding, but it can easily burn me out. To me it's more of a side role, which is probably why sysadmin suits me best.

 

[yaruar]

Its a good point - best thing to do is aim to become a business analyst - code monkeys are cheap and readily available in india etc. but they dont have business knowledge.

Only become a business analyst if you ahve no technical knowledge whatsoever and want everyone who does to hate you with a passion.

I've yet to meet a BA who actually knows anything about computers, and for that matter about business.

 

[Scouse]

Dev pays a lot more if you contract. I wouldn't take a permie job in IT unless they were spunking money at me. I'm an admin/infrastructure type but I reckon I'd prolly bring in approaching 150k a year if I was developing rather than what I do...

 

[old.user4556]

I'd prolly bring in approaching 150k a year if I was developing rather than what I do...

In the UK? Show me the job advert, I won't believe it until I see it.

Contractor rates have been completely slashed recently in the face of the UK wide recession.

 

[rynnor]

Only become a business analyst if you ahve no technical knowledge whatsoever and want everyone who does to hate you with a passion.

I've yet to meet a BA who actually knows anything about computers, and for that matter about business.

Sounds like you've had some bad experiences - I have worked at places where the BA's were non-techies who just fiddled with project plans and asked stupid questions but where I currently work a fair number of them were once devs and know what their doing.

I'm not a BA by the way but if things get too outsource'y its something I'd consider. They can move most IT sections abroad but not those that need business experience.

 

[RandomBastard]

I think the ultimate answer to this question is actually another question, death or cake.