Determination: biggest mistake mythic ever done?

[Asha]

This is beginning to feel like beating my head against a brick wall.

I didn't say a reaver with det would be close to a savage. I said it would be close to say which was more over powered. I never suggested it so drop it.

What does a savage bring over zerkers/warriors?? Huge dmg output, self end healing, other chants. What does it bring to a group? Huge dmg output hello. It's as valid as friars healing lol

Last post on this cause I refuse to argue with someone who switches realms everytime the balance changes and then argues that the realm they switched to isn't overpowered.

The point is because det is overpowered half the classes in the game aren't viable in rvr and savages are even more over powered than other det tanks because they have hybrid abilities.

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by Asha

Last post on this cause I refuse to argue with someone who switches realms everytime the balance changes and then argues that the realm they switched to isn't overpowered.

lol nice personal attack there, i played middy when hibby was best, when middy was given love ie end regen(zerker god mode) i left cause it was too easy and moved to alb, and then quit alb and daoc for about a month and then a friend gave me my old acc back that he used as a buffbot, i openly state middy is more powerful than alb in my posts and constantly say alb does need love in areas so tbh that comment was about as valid as the rest of the crap you spew, here take $10 and go buy a clue, end of conversation

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Rollie
Hey belo this is the 9th/10th time you have jumped into a post to make a comment on somthing ive said, problem........?

No, there is no problem, I'd do this to anyone. I think you attribute yourself a bit too much importance. Like Asha said, I'm just amused at seeing how your opinion changes as you change realm, problem....?

Strong editing, though.

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by Belomar
No, there is no problem, I'd do this to anyone. I think you attribute yourself a bit too much importance. Like Asha said, I'm just amused at seeing how your opinion changes as you change realm, problem....?

Strong editing, though.

no it doesnt belo, the only thing that changes is your attitude, ive always stated savages are overpowered, as i always say i feel albion is the weakest realm of the 3 and it does need love, and that determination is too powerful in it current form, albions key abilities are spread too thinly, how has those opionions changed at all? they havent, the thing that has changed is i dont wanna see a class completely killed off, which is the intention of quite alot of people.

Originally posted by Belomar

EDIT: Waheeey, give more savage nerfs!

Were not gonna be running any savage groups soon hopefully, once we have more warriors/zerks in guild, so then it will be interesting to see what your next whine regarding me is, maybe not running enough thanes in our group for you?

 

[alme]

Originally posted by Ensceptifica
No, but then that's got nothing to do with eachother. If you do fg-fg fights and there is no ae CC, there is still no zerg.

Without mezz.. Tank grps would be totaly useless. Only grp that would work is a pb grp.
Vs 1fg:
If u meet mids, u think u can kill their 3 healers before their 3 svgs kill ure 2-3 droods ? no fucking way.

Hibs vs albs can be a fun fight i spose until albs use SoS and BoF.

fg vs 2fg or more:
Weeee this will be fun. U have to outdmg the zerg, which is an easy job aint it.

 

[quinthar]

Originally posted by hotrat
Reavers may have guard and protect and the nice pbae chants but they dont have 360 degree evade and evade buff and evade 4 and self end regen and self haste and the ability to quad hit.
Savage and reaver are similar in ability except one has det so is fotm the other doesnt so isn't fotm.
If reavers had Det I dunno but maybe they would be fotm.

And ROFL to all the people saying that if you remove det the game is back to casters pwning. HOW DO YOU THINK IT IS NOW FOR GROUPS WHO RUN WITHOUT DET TANKS? example reaver, paladin, minstrel, sorc, cleric, cleric, theurgist, friar. Perfectly good group before det, now no longer good cus det is so overpowered.

lmfao at people saying because they dont have det tanks they suffer, erm get a det tank then...its as bad as people nagging about not having cc cuz they dont run with a sorc...erm get a sorc then...

Hasnt det been around for a while??

 

[quinthar]

Originally posted by Asha
I wasn?t really addressing you but the general opinion that MoC is an answer to det.

Yes all 3 sides have det tanks? that isn?t the point. The point is ppl have have casters and hybrids for a long time and now these characters are useless in rvr groups. When was the last time you saw a Runemaster? When was the last time you lost to a group with a runie in it? It?s not that there is inbalance between realms (with the exception of the savage) its an imbalance inside the realms.

And btw if casters don?t stop tanks then who is going to??? The mezzed paladin and reaver? Have you ever tried to slam a savage? An albion group can only afford one shield armsman ? is he supposed to slam all 3 or 4 savages? CC is Crowd CONTROL?.

There has to be a balance somewhere between caster groups and tank groups. Mythic are just incompetent and can?t find it.

lol where did I say MOC was the answer to Det???

Again I'll say it, "MOC is not an insignificant RA". Show me the reference to det ???

Where did this conversation move to grps with 3-4 savages? there can be no argument about them, overpowered yes, ruining what was a fragile balance? probably..

If the conversation is about Det for savages then lets have a fresh thread, this was about Det in general I thought.

I agree CC is Crowd Control it should not be CC = teh Win though which without det it is.

 

[quinthar]

Originally posted by infozwerg
casters that choose to play in fg with good support are still at a disadvantage against random tanks.



stupid n00b

When you see a question mark it usually implies that it is a question, when you say stupid noob in response to a question you simply hghlight the fact you are clearly retarded in some way.

 

[quinthar]

It seems after reading this diatribe that the majority of issues re: Det is from Alb casters. My position has been very clear I do not want to see Det removed because my Arms will be well and truely screwed again.

The whole argument here seems to now be revolving around the issue of savages having Det, frankly I dont have an opinion on this because I dont activly play my casters in RVR anymore.

If Savages having det 4+ is an issue then please dont drag down an already arguably weak tank like armsman with it, campaign for them to have it removed ffs dont tar everybody else with the same brush, its sweeping comments about "Tank" classes being over powered that will cause mythic to screw the class(s) and create a nice big rift again.

I dont recall seeing too many Mid or Hib casters saying they are particulary worried about Alb Armsmen neither.

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Rollie
then it will be interesting to see what your next whine regarding me is, maybe not running enough thanes in our group for you?

Hmm, I don't see where your fascination with my opinion about things comes from. I'm not particularly worried about your guild since I never see it in RvR, I'm more worried about the likes of NP and JH, guilds in which face you either log off or try to find a zerg.

Oh, and it's no secret that tanks >>> casters in this game nowadays. I just find tanks boring, so I stay true to my unpopular class instead of jumping on the tank bandwagon.

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by Belomar
I'm not particularly worried about your guild since I never see it in RvR.

Move away from the alb zerg and you might, were active, we see pin, nighty, justi alot and other albs groups but tend to stay away from the alb zerg, which is why we probably miss each other.

 

[Asha]

Originally posted by Asha
I wasn?t really addressing you but the general opinion that MoC is an answer to det.

Originally posted by quinthar
lol where did I say MOC was the answer to Det???

Where did I say you did? ffs read. I said the GENERAL OPINION – ie the one that a lot of ppl hold. Some people have said to me that MoC makes up for det. I wasn’t talking to you, I thought I made it clear but I guess not.

It seems after reading this diatribe that the majority of issues re: Det is from Alb casters. My position has been very clear I do not want to see Det removed because my Arms will be well and truely screwed again.

I dont recall seeing too many Mid or Hib casters saying they are particulary worried about Alb Armsmen neither

Yes, but half the classes in the game are currently screwed because of mez/det… Wouldn’t it be better to balance that? Don’t think ppl are saying remove det entirely, but det 4 and 5 are just too powerful. A passive RA should not be able to completely negate CC… just like CC should not be able to completely negate tank classes. There is a balance somewhere in between.

I am very sure that Mid casters hate det as much as Alb casters. Hibs casters don’t rely on CC as much as Albs and Mids because they are slightly better positioned with GP.

I am just sick of not being able to group a friar or a scout or a wizard or both a theurgist and a sorcerer because our group will not be able to compete against tank groups. A lot of ppl have retired their runies, sms, fire wizards, etc .. I think it’s a shame. Variety is the spice of life ^^

 

[sigh]

or littul reavers ;P

 

[Asha]

!

no from cleric's pov !

won't force anyone to group liddul reavah :/

 

[Garbannoch Nox]

Originally posted by quinthar
I dont recall seeing too many Mid or Hib casters saying they are particulary worried about Alb Armsmen neither.

because these are 2 different things:
- a savage (or maybe 2) with determination will more or less insta kill any caster - that's why casters and everyone else in alb and hib don't want savages to have determination
- whether armsmen or tank x has determination or not is more an issue for other tanks than casters. It's the tanks who don't get a group with their non-det tanks. While for casters it doesnt matter really: a good healer is able to heal you against non-savages - if you are able to deal damage in that time you win - if not you lose - pretty much balanced

I think determination is overpowered but it really became an issue with savages. But for the sake of all non-det classes it still should be nerfed after the savage nerf

 

[quinthar]

Originally posted by Garbannoch Nox
because these are 2 different things:
- a savage (or maybe 2) with determination will more or less insta kill any caster - that's why casters and everyone else in alb and hib don't want savages to have determination
- whether armsmen or tank x has determination or not is more an issue for other tanks than casters. It's the tanks who don't get a group with their non-det tanks. While for casters it doesnt matter really: a good healer is able to heal you against non-savages - if you are able to deal damage in that time you win - if not you lose - pretty much balanced

I think determination is overpowered but it really became an issue with savages. But for the sake of all non-det classes it still should be nerfed after the savage nerf

Kinda goes back to what I said, this has turned from a remove Det to remove Det on savages.

Thing is anything you do to Det will effect more than the one class people most want to see without det. Its all about cause and effect.

re: Det and Moc for Asha, sorry I didnt see the general opinion bit, my bad.

 

[lac_desariel]

I read all of this, and heres a few points i picked up on

Pure tanks say that with out det they are caster food... but also so is the caster or any other class with out det.

Inorder for that Arms zerk savage any tank to be caster food they need to get CC'ed, now what if you win the mezz the caster in tank food.. 6 and 2 3's imo

some say remove CC.. imo i as a wizard would rather DET5 on tanks than no CC cos at least i can cast 2 spells before i die..

some questioned resists.. Tanks have to deal with 26% resists max... i deal with 26% + avoid magic + casters resists, that can be 50%

I ve seen posts of arms doing 600+ damage.. My pbae (im the tank killer in albion) does about 350

i do agree with the point about det is in stacks of 15% yet a caster is 3%.. for all tanks with Det imagine your being nuked by a caster with MOM 5 @ 15% thats what we deal with with det...

to achive balance you need to forget the class you play and think off all classes.. and too many are to onarrow minded to do that, hence there clss is a little hard so the roll uber class and stuff

someone said if you complain about det get class with det.. nice one mate think first plz.. you seen the videos i do we are a caster group, tanks dont want an Ice wizard, and those groups i do get as a wizard there is a big unbalance..... it dont work so you are either in a caster group or a tank group

One on this as a caster group we can beat hibs and hids just like that can with use.. yet if i see that kolbold caster or that elf caster i think great i can kill this target...... (that tells a story imo) also we have beaten savage teams..HOWEVER when we fight savage teams ( I use savages for 1 reason they are normaly the HIGH RR tanks with DET we meet) as i was saying when we meed high RR Det teams we struggle imo and tend not to fair to good.

all in all Purge was made to beat CC and all have it... i agree with the statement if you purge you should be imune to all CC and to add to that immune from the ghey spammers of mezz the disrupts all the time even tho you are immune

 

[hercules-df]

insta mezz/stun worst mistake ever

 

[hotrat]

Yer what Lac says is so true.

All the tanks who say /cry /cry remove our det and we get pwned by casters again try and think about casters/hybrids (those who dont have Det now) and how badly we get effected by CC.

 

[Asha]

I might be totally wrong here (I am sure ppl will tell me so ), but I don’t think lessening det would really hurt tanks that much. Back before det was cheap, or even before det existed we all had crappy resists. Now we run around with insane resists. I don’t think it would be so easy for a caster group to kill before stun wears off as it was before.

I think resists need to be readdressed too – to make casters more viable, but that would mean that det shouldn’t be nerfed very much.

Would it hurt so much to limit it to level 3 ?

 

[ztyx]

Originally posted by samildanachh
Well it eliminates all non det tanks from groups and makes casters crappy.
Has changed the face of rvr, making groups far more tank orientated and has diffreientiated classes to a far larger degree meaning only certain classes are likely to get groups.
Theyve done some fuck ups in their time but i think this is the worst

What about dragonfang?

 

[duact]

remove savages end heal and nerf all end regens and tanks will be as good as casters.