Depression

[00dave]

Ok I know I touched on this subject not long ago and many people took exception to my views, but this isn't about that.

I have a friend who I've known for 3 years now and only this year they told me they suffered from depression but never went into specifics.
Now I have noticed a tendancy for my friend to be very excitable sometimes, often suggesting days out or random activities at the drop of a hat and generally being quite happy go lucky. But other times, like now for example, they're feeling so low they shut themselves away from the world and refuse to communicate by any means, even a text seems too much.
This period of low usually follows a significant high in their lives like a holiday or something and is often quite distressing for their friends and as a result many of them walk away.

What does this sound like to you guys? I have my ideas but I'd like to know what other people who may have experienced a similar thing think.

 

[Moriath]

manic depression

kinda like stephen fry

 

[nath]

As Moriath says, from your description, textbook bi-polar.

 

[00dave]

Forgive my ignorance but are manic depression and bipolar the same thing?

 

[Madmaxx]

Yeah it used to be called Manic Depression now its Bipolar Disorder.

 

[00dave]

Oh dear, so having an arguement with them yesterday and threatening to walk away myself was probably not the best course of action.

How long do these lows last and whats the best course of action then?

 

[Edmond]

They last about 4 days for me, depending how run down i am, the problem is that is difficult to warn people that your going down until it happens

The whole locking himself away is just his way to stop himself doing something twatish towards you, his friends. Respect that and let him be, its an illness at the end of the day, and its very difficult to explain, try to be understanding

 

[00dave]

It's a female friend by the way.

It's been going on for about 2 weeks now, I understand that the time varies though. I normally recieve a shit load of texts from her everyday but the past 2 weeks I've been lucky to get one word answers, and after texting her to see if everything was ok a few times I was accused of trying to control her.

 

[Tom]

Tread carefully. It wasn't until I was about 35 that I began to understand that this disorder was the root cause of most of the problems within my immediate family (with whom I now have little to no contact with).

 

[Edmond]

Just try to let her know you are there for her, but leave her be, its very difficult for her to discuss it with you while she is like this, she will only talk about it when she is ready, usually when she's in a better place, and even then she will make out it was nothing and for you not to worry

Is she seeing someone about it? counciling is a great help, but dont try to push her to do anything she is not comfortable with, be patient with her

 

[00dave]

oh bugger

just been doing some research on manic depression and I can't believe how many symtoms of a manic episode I haven't noticed.
Recently she's been complaining of not being able to sleep and has been using sleeping pills a lot. She also spent a day discussing with me what she would do if she won the lottery, at the time I thought it was just silly talk but there was something strange in the way she spoke, like it was something she was sure was going to happen. She's also been talking constanly about becoming a surgeon one day, but I know for a fact that she's not nearly educated enough to even attempt it, but she seems so sure about it.

I think I may have made things worse for her then.

 

[00dave]

Is she seeing someone about it? counciling is a great help, but dont try to push her to do anything she is not comfortable with, be patient with her

She still sees a therapist regularly but she mentioned coming off the anti ds not long ago.
She also attended the funeral of a friend last friday I suppose that could prolong the downer.

You know that feeling when a puzzle starts piecing itself together in your head, that's what I'm getting now.

 

[Edmond]

The sleeping tabs didnt work for me (the bottle said 'may cause drowseness', seriously) she's doing a bit of escapism. Does she usually confide in you? if so let her come to you, as i said b4, dont push the situation

Why do you feel you have made things worse?

 

[Madmaxx]

I think depression affects people in different ways.

Myself I can get very irratible, and resentfull. And I sometimes regret saying things when something hits the wrong button, which also is one of the things that leads me to not texting or picking the phone up.
Like when I go out with my brothers to the pub I'm alright aslong as I keep my mind busy like on a pool game or a footie match; but when im just standing at the bar my mind starts wondering about and I'd go into a non-communicative state, and just wanting to get out of the public eye. Trying to talk to me at this time you will only get small talk from me, when I just wanna get out of there because I feel like i dont belong there or something.

Personally I wouldnt ask head on about Depression, or what medication they take. As he/she told you about the depression they trust you quite alot, and over time you might learn bit by bit when he/she starts opening up more. You could even be quite important in your friend getting better, if your patient and dont be judgemental; he/she would trust you more and the friendship will get better. So I wouldnt treat the depression as a bad thing on your friendship, just that the trust is growing and the other person see's you as a true friend.

 

[Edmond]

Anti-depressents totally fucked me up, i threw them away, i've never felt so paranoid in my life!!

Coming off them is not easy, neither is trying to get them into your system in the first place

 

[00dave]

Why do you feel you have made things worse?

We haven't spoken to each other face to face in weeks now and thats quite unusual. So I managed to get her to agree to meet up for a chat yesterday. I text her about mid day to ask what time she wanted to meet, 4 hours later I got a reply saying she was in a foul mood and didn't want to leave the house today so not to bother coming. Thinking it was just another excuse I got annoyed and text her back saying if you're going to act like you don't want to know me then whats the point in us being friends anymore. she got angry and accused me of trying to control her and I accused her of being a selfish person.

 

[Madmaxx]

You handled it better than my friends I think, they were saying things like why dont you come out for a drink and stuff after I started saying no quite often.
Then one time I just came out told them. That I was on some anti-depressants and that the pills were actually making it worse when I started them( i didnt go into details why etc), One of them laughed and another went along with him. They shared glances and no one said anything until something happened which broke the silence.
That was the last day I ever spoke to any of them out 3 friends and 3 best friends which were there. That was in a November, I didnt get any txts back that xmas, and that was that lol. I even knew 2 of them from Nursery/Year1 till I was 19 and its gone like we never knew eachother.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Some general rambling on the topic:

Some anti-depressants are known to cause paranoia and other side effects. In the US there are anti-depressants that have long since been banned but are still available in the UK. In particular, some are known in particular to cause suicidal tendancies in teenagers. Google newspaper stories for this kind of thing, it isn't actually unkown.

Anti-depressants can have other side effects too, sleep loss, weight gain/loss, drop in sex drive etc. The exact effect can vary hugely with the individual.

The more serious types such as bipolar (manic depression) generally need to be dealt with chemically as it is a chemical imbalance that causes the mood swings and this chemical imbalance is what needs to be addressed. It can be difficult as most manic depressives will not recognise or believe they have a condition that needs to be addressed. This kind of thing can destroy families very easily.

A problem with anti-depressants is they are generally addictive and coming off them can create symptoms similar to those exhibited by depression itself.

A social issue with depression is that it is an invisible illness. You don't go around with your arm in a cast or something obvious: to the untrained eye it can look like a person is simply malingering when in reality their suffering is all to real.

One thing to remember with people suffering is that there is no easy way to deal with it. If they become sufficiently in the grip of a depressive bout then you cannot do anything right because any attempts to help will be twisted into an argument, the cleverer the person the more able they are to disemble and deflect your attempts to 'help'. Patience, persistence, kindness will get you through but only so far - in the end it is professional help that is needed but getting the sufferer to this point can be a quest in itself.

If you are in a relationship with such a person one last and crucially important thing:

You are not their rescuer, nor should you ever try to be. You can help. You can support. But get a professional. Becoming rescuer is a trap.: when you are done rescuing your relationship is over and you lose the prize at the moment you attain it. You become superfluous once the relationship dynamics change.

Food for thought.

 

[mycenae]

Manic Depression and Bipolar disorder are NOT exactly the same thing. Bipolar disorder tends to be classified as extreme manic depression, with swings from high to low that can almost be instantaneous, and with crazy happy highs, and suicidal, very dark lows. Manic depression is the pre-cursor to this which will mostly transform into Bipolar disorder if not identified and treated. Manic depression is normally treated with anti depressants, Bipolar disorder with lithium.
I was pretty depressed the summer just gone, mostly work related with some other stuff thrown in. I was very resistant to being put on anti-depressants, but eventually agreeed to try Citalopram (one of the 'gentler' meds out there.) Made me feel COMPLETELY spaced for 3 days. I literally sat in the flat and felt as though the world has slowed down around me. It was very unpleasant. I rang the Dr, who suggested to take it last thing at night rather than first thing in the morning. That just gave me very broken sleep and odd dreams. The dr assured me these side effects normally disappeared by week 4-5 and to stick with it. By week 3 I was struggling to pee. I would feel the urge to go, but couldn;t get it started. Told the GP, and also told him that urinary disfunction was one the listed possible side effects. Again, was told not to worry, that it would fix itself. Week 5, I got a raging kidney infection and was V poorly for a few days and had to have nasty antibiotics. Stopped taking the Citalopram needless to say, and I really didn't feel like it had done anything for my mood. Started taking Fluoxetine instead. Within a week I felt a lot better and had no side effects at all.

Just goes to show, its a different experience for everyone.

With regards to your friend. If she's wanting space and time away from you, let her have it. She's probably got a head full of crap she's trying to sort, and doesn't want to burden you with it, or really to talk about it at all, whilst she's feeling so low. As long as she knows you're there for her, you're doing all you can

 

[Trem]

Anti-depressents totally fucked me up, i threw them away, i've never felt so paranoid in my life!!

Coming off them is not easy, neither is trying to get them into your system in the first place

Same here, I had some big red pills years ago and they basically made me a cabbage, I remember making it to my dads only to find he wasn't in, I let myself in and just monged on his sofa because I couldn't make it back home.

I am on new pills now (same as Jup iirc) and they seem to help, certainly help when I need to go for a meal or a pub or something, I am doing that lots more nowadays.

When I get it/got it it would usually last 2 weeks then it was like someone flicked a switch and I would be doing cartwheels.

It basically ruined everything for me when I was younger, it was worse because no one understood it back then. It got better when I met Samm, like I have always said choose a partner who is good for your head.

A problem with anti-depressants is they are generally addictive and coming off them can create symptoms similar to those exhibited by depression itself.

You see I don't agree with this totally. Addictive because they make you feel human and coming off them makes you feel bad again isn't the same as heroin addictive imo. I actually argued with a doctor once about this, I don't understand how something that makes you better is addictive in a bad way. If I need them forever then so be it, if it stops me wanting to curl up into a ball and die then thats fine by me. I actually forget to take my pills quite often so its not like I crave them.

I do know what you are trying to say though Roo.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Won't really touch this matter more then say;

Remember her that you're there, keep a cool head on all situations, remember that even if she pushes you away it doesn't mean she wants you to go anywhere and first and foremost, don't get insulted or angry.

In short; support, understanding and being a friend is the best thing you can do.

 

[00dave]

Thanks guys, really appreciate all your input on this. I was really starting to worry about her but felt powerless to help.

 

[Trem]

Thanks guys, really appreciate all your input on this. I was really starting to worry about her but felt powerless to help.

With me people could say what they wanted, it never sank in anyway. I of course remembered afterwards and resented them but if they said something mean it never made me want to jump off a bridge. So I dunno if what you say to her matters, good or bad none of it may sink in.

Its a catch 22 thing really, I was sad/depressed/suicidal because of how I felt not because I wanted to end it all. I wanted to not feel like I did, like I was floating above looking at myself looking at people looking at me.

Its a hard mother fucker to explain

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Sounds like she needs a good beat down tbh.

 

[Bahumat]

I agree with Tohtori.

 

[Damini]

We haven't spoken to each other face to face in weeks now and thats quite unusual. So I managed to get her to agree to meet up for a chat yesterday. I text her about mid day to ask what time she wanted to meet, 4 hours later I got a reply saying she was in a foul mood and didn't want to leave the house today so not to bother coming. Thinking it was just another excuse I got annoyed and text her back saying if you're going to act like you don't want to know me then whats the point in us being friends anymore. she got angry and accused me of trying to control her and I accused her of being a selfish person.

The antisocial side is very typical of a bleak mood. You just want to barricade the door (I once, at uni, actually physically did it, no metaphors for me!) and can't face seeing anyone. It's not a reflection on you at all - in fact, the more you like someone, the less likely you are to want to see them because it's horrible having someone who knows you really well see you when you're all battered and morose. People that know you want to pry, and fix it, and they tell you to pick yourself up, and so on, whereas people that don't know you that well don't bother.

I don't know if she's necessarily bi-polar. I think it's difficult as a layman to put a diagnosis on these things. Sometimes after feeling shit for so long, it's just such an amazing feeling to get your energy and your optimism back that you go a bit over board with it. Well, that's how I feel. Maybe I'm actually bi-polar, and just don't realise it

 

[rynnor]

Depression is a fascinating subject - its interesting to note that the idea that certain people suffer from unique illnesses that we label 'depression' 'manic depression' 'bi-polar' etc. has become discredited.

Modern psychology tends to treat these as normal behaviours taken beyond the normal range - like a spectrum with people who never suffer depression at one end and the severely depressed at the other.

Theres nothing fundamentally different about these people thus there should be no stigma attached to suffering from depression as we all experience bouts of it but differ in how we cope with it.

Its also worth noting that we still do not understand depression in scientific terms - some doctors still talk about chemical imbalances but its nonsense.

We have a range of drugs that are currently used to treat depression and are labelled 'anti-depressants' but this also is false.

We do not understand whats going on in the brain enough to counter it with drugs - so what we currently have are drugs that will induce a 'chemically altered state of mind' - they dont cure depression but some find that life is easier to cope with in this altered state of mind.

I guess if it works and people are happy then so be it but it raises serious ethical and moral issues to take people with mental health problems and - effectively - turn them into drug addicts.

Personally - I think therapy is the only real treatment but the nhs and doctors believe in pills and its a damn sight cheaper but I must say it tarnishes the hyppocratic oath.

 

[nath]

Personally - I think therapy is the only real treatment but the nhs and doctors believe in pills and its a damn sight cheaper but I must say it tarnishes the hyppocratic oath.

It's interesting how many armchair experts there are when people say they have a mental disorder. My brother has been told by several of his friends that "those drugs are fucked up man, you should come off them". I guess they mean well, but the arrogance that they know better than a psychiatrist who works with this day to day is pretty astounding. My brother has pretty fucking severe bi-polar and without meds (I'm not talking just anti-depressants, I'm talking lithium) he would be/has been in a fucking awful state. Therapy for him would be like having someone look at a bullet wound and saying "now tell me how this makes you feel".

I've no doubt there are misdiagnoses out there from time to time, but these conditions exist and these medications *do* help.

 

[throdgrain]

Amazing how many people who post on this forum appear to have bipoloar if you ask me.

In life I've hardly ever met anyone like that, yet here it's like every poster is one.

 

[DaGaffer]

In life I've hardly ever met anyone like that, yet here it's like every poster is one.

And autistic. And dyslexic.