Debate : Have Realm Abilities and Instas helped ot hindered RvR

[cHodAX]

Debate : Have Realm Abilities and Instas helped or hindered RvR

I had a nice long chat with a friend last night about this, on many things we agreed but a few sticking points such as purge we didn't see eye to eye. Personally I think in many ways that RvR requires alot less skill now but I want to know what the rest of you think. My biggest gripe is the insta mezz which is stupidly overpowered and dictates any medium to large battle.

 

[old.mattshanes]

I think they are to good have PvE and to help you lv easier but as for rvr i think in some ways they can be unfair considering the high rp holders now being godlike.Then again tanks will be more useful once theirs become less points cost.

 

[cHodAX]

Ignore Pain ; Full Health Regen, how can any caster ever solo someone with IP? Your average middy has about 1300-1500 HP but using I.P. when in trouble they are effectively almost double that. Average Level50 caster DD does 350-450 damage after resists. Now even 7 DD's with at 2.0sec cast time won't drop them, as soon as they get close enough to melee you are finished. You either try get a root off or quickcast a DD, running is rarely an option. All that is based on the fact that you actually get you 14 seconds to cast that many DD's which you almost never do.

 

[klavrynd]

RA's are mythics way of saying "we fucked up". They can't balance classes properly and then they throw in RA's which imbalance classes even more.

The amount of totally ridiculous and/or shabby ra's (mastery of water , rain of xxx , ...) is huge and even though usefull IP is without any doubt thé biggest design mistake ever.

 

[Danya]

Agree with klav, RAs are utterly crap. Worst design decision in the game to date.

 

[old.Ayam Ganbatte]

I like the idea of constantly changing dynamics to battle, it makes fights a lot less routine as we learn to evolve against new tricks However, realm abilities have done this at the cost of skewing far too much power into the hands of certain professions.

 

[old.LandShark]

Basically, all the 30min timered RAs are completely unbalancing. I'm basically fine with dodger, mastery of pain, mastery of blocking etc, but ignore pain, purge etc just make a mockery of tactics.
And, I say that i'm O.K. with master of parry/blocking NOW, but when those skills are fixed anyway, an RA that is equivalent to 6 spec-levels, per level of the RA? Seems plain wrong to me...

 

[Brannor McThife]

RA's are crap. Too many useless ones, too many things that overpower certain classes. Vanish is just WRONG. See Hidden screws over all the Archers (anybody see any lowbie archers around?).

As I've said elsewhere. This game is like a spinning top that has been nudged out of balance since the beginning. Instead of working on true balancing, Mythic have constantly tried to nudge it from different sides, thereby making it get out of shape even more. SotL and the like no only have a tactical advantage over us, but most of their members are RR4 or so and beyond. That means that every single one of their YMCA can vanish, purge, etc.

That, combined with their Legion/Epic drops make them extremely hard to beat.

I recall a time when it was said "You can go into the frontier and live at 35". Then it became 40, now it's 45...soon it'll be "Don't waste your time going there unless you're 50. Cause you'll be owned by L50's with Dragon/Legion/Epic armour/weapons and RR8. It's pathetic.

I feel really, REALLY sorry for people that join this game now. In fact. I'd rather direct them to the PvP server, because there at least it'll start all even again. The longer this game goes on, the more f-cked up Mythic make it. Sorry to say it (Bah...this is part of my planned Friday Flame...) but I foresee this game losing more and more people over the coming months as we start to find people with RR8+ totally anihilating RR1's.

<sighs>
Balance. Such a simple concept...

-G

 

[old.Noita]

My 2euros:

I took all the passive non class specific RAs I could get my hands on.

I got Serenity iv, Aug Acuity ii and Mastery of Magery ii I think (could have been i though) and I must say that I have been very impressed with them all. Aug acuity has boosted my Piety through its non buffed cap, Serenity iv REALLY makes a big difference to my solo down time as its mana regen tic is quite fast and MoM has made a noticable difference to my overall damage.

My class specific RAs were a joke tho

Will get MCL up to MCL ii at some point but overall Im happy with mine. Having said that...I know mine arent really that offensive in nature, but in RvR they have increased my damage and my downtime as they have with PvE. So yes in general, Im pretty positive about them.

Just having read Gs post above, I agree almost totally...in this constant search for "Balance" all that seems to be happening is more and more class imbalance. RAs have done precious little to address the class imbalances, just exacerbate it in many cases.

Who knows? Maybe they will bring out a Battleground where people 40+ and lower than RR4 or 5 can RvR.

 

[Flimgoblin]

RA's are interesting...

however they're half-done, hap-hazardly thrown into the game and totally unbalanced.

e.g.
Ignore Pain - you'd be crazy not to get it.

Mastery of XXX - waste of points.

They were supposed to add flavour to RvR and choice in how to improve your character...

Flavour they have added, but there's little choice in the abilities due to some of them being way overpowered and some being utterly useless.

Insta-spells? should be seriously toned down - much like basic mezz has...

drop their ranges to 700 and i'll be happy

 

[Psy|:m00:]

insta aoe mez/stun = having a laugh


Only spells (non-ra) that I'd really like see gone are these, I mean, at least with casted aoe mez/stun you have a chance of interrupting the caster, but these? not a sniff, you're completely fecked, bards/healers can just keep running, watch the alb/hib/mid CC casters do the mez mojo and just laugh, because they can click one button and, woops, whole army stopped in the blink of an eye.

Also healer mez being chain-castable is beginning to piss me off something awful, granted it's all they have, but jeez do they flaunt it, mostly to the point of me being stood in battle just waiting for my turn to die since being chain mezzed/stunned has completely stopped me from fighting.

and last but not least...Nearsight, good idea in concept, feck up the casters, the big killers of the enemy by reducing their range of spells, but 2 minutes and then being able to be nearsighted again as soon as it's run it's course? what in the hell? Last night i was nearsighted a total of three times at the mmg, that's 6 minutes where i could do bugger all except run right into the faces of the mids, at which point i would have been nuked to hell and back by thanes/rm's/sm's...twice of which were one after another, got earsighted, sat down until it wore off, peeked outsidew again...nearsighted straightaway.. wears off again, i skip to the other side of the battlements...see a kobie so i cast meh dd (fully buffed) and before i can get my nuke off...nearsighted again...2 second cast time on it...for something as powerful as nearsight (cripples any and every caster) it has a rediculously short cast time, and a just as rediculous range (2300 anyone?). There really needs to be an immunit timer on this, lengthening of cast time and shortening of range to at least 2000 (yes i know archers have longer range than that) so that casters/archers can at least interrupt the other one trying to nearsight...

</rant>

 

[old.Takahome]

All bump 4 da new patch, remember in USA removing lvl modifier caused a HUGE BUMP in the number of lowbies rvr. Now those 35+ will find some minor place rvr which´s pretty good.

 

[Oloren]

I find IP very usefull, allthough being on a 30 minute timer theres nothing like casting IP when in trouble, saved me quite a few times.

Now First aid, is it bugged? heals me for about 250 hp, not at all the 30% per lvl in the skill the realm tables say.

Purge on other hand i havent tried yet so i cant really say if its viable or not, not sure how long afterwards your suposed to be imune to Mezzes and roots but might be better putting points in some other RA rather than purge till it gets fixed.

 

[Perplexed]

Originally posted by old.cHodAX
Ignore Pain ; Full Health Regen, how can any caster ever solo someone with IP?

But... how can any tank EVER solo a decent caster without IP? Plus a caster with MoC would probably still beat a tank with IP. I hardly think it's unfair a tank has a chance to solo a caster once every 30mins.....

 

[SilverHood]

completely ruined RvR for those of us who aren't lvl 50 with 5 hours to spend on RvR each day

 

[Shike]

hmm, did Ra's provoke this massive zerging we have now?

a good lvl50tank with rr2 cant win a fight against a good lvl50tank with rr4 for instance.

same goes for assassins. (i know specc matters more here, but still, a goodspecced vs a goodspecced have a really hard time to beat the one at the higher RR)

I agree that some RA's are way owerpowered, some are utter crap. And I dont believe that these abilities only add some flavour to the char. It's a question of pure survival now, tanks that dont have IP are underdogs, Casters that dont have MoC are underdogs and so on. Archers got bumped into a hellhole and forgotten (more meleeorientated Archers might still work, but then, there are no archers anymore)

Mythic should have thought this through some more before releaseing them. Either set a way higher cost at RA's that are the truly powerful ones, so that they are highly sought after and rare, or set them on extreme timers, or degrade them somewhat, for instance, IP heals half HP, MoC makes spells consume 5times as much mana, See hidden only works if you are still and dont move for 5s.

That way IP still gives an extra chanse of survival, MoC is good, but all casters know how it is to be without mana, See hidden still works to spot those pesky snipers and alert realmmates, but at least, the sniper gets a varning when ppl suddenly start to search and gets a chanse to get away, instead of instantly beeing trashed apart by an assassin.

There are probably more RA's that are troublesome and destroy the game for many ppl atm... I dont know

Just my 2 cobbers.

ghaa, i just noticed i rant a lot here, sorry, I am really tired atm.

 

[old.LandShark]

I find it amusing that of all the RAs, Brannor is bothered most by VANISH?
There's one single lvl50 inf on my server with it ffs, and he wishes he'd never bought it...

 

[j000 d000d]

Well, RAs are a good thing in my eyes. There was no point getting RR at first, now there is.

And let's take as example a solo minstrel:

No-RA: in 30 minutes this happens:

xxx was just killed by Minstrel!
xxx was just killed by Minstrel!
xxx was just killed by Minstrel!
xxx was just killed by Minstrel!
xxx was just killed by Minstrel!
xxx was just killed by Minstrel!
xxx was just killed by Minstrel!
xxx was just killed by Minstrel!
xxx was just killed by Minstrel!

With RA: in 30 minutes this happens:

Minstrel attacks Shadowblade! Shadowblade uses IP! Minstrel uses IP! Minstrel wins! Shadowblade was just killed by Minstrel!
<3 minutes later>
Minstrel attacks Shadowblade! Shadowblade usus IP! Minstrel doesn't have IP ready! Shadowblade wins! Minstrel was just killed by Shadowblade!

So it kinda puts pressure on those solo stealthers who could always kill about anyone, a good thing, IMO

 

[speshneeds]

well at least RA's are summit a little bit more interesting than the nothing that was there after 50 to spec in And skalds got one of the worst sets of RA's i think....

 

[listepik]

RA's force people to group more and more in RvR. this leads to zerging.

zerging, is by far the worst concept ever introduced.

it removes EVERY concept of tactics, from any battle you will ever see.
and there is no alternative to it.
being a solo-based RvR class, doesnt improve this either.

Assassins will be a dying breed i think (obviously, this will make 80% of the player base happy ), but inevitably, RA's are the main reason i cancel my subscription.

 

[Turamber]

Ok, my 2 coppers worth.

I like realm abilities. Having the powerful ones on a 30 minute timer means they don't effect the outcome of battles to a great extent, or too often.

They give a reason to people to get out and fight in RvR. It makes perfect sense to me that a level 50 who RvR's a lot will have an advantage over a level 40 who RvR's once every blue moon ... if it was to be otherwise where is the incentive in (1) levelling or (2) fighting a lot in RvR.

As for zerging - I don't think realm abilities have anything to do with that. There are just more and more people who want to RvR, and people like to stick together for safety etc. I dunno where you get this "lack of tactics" from Liste -- there are always tactics, even in battles that involve a large number of people.

You may not realise that it's happening as much as you do in an 8 man v 8 elf/troll etc battle, but it does happen. Last night a face off between about 30 Hibs, Mids and Albs on the far side of AMG was a classic. The forces edging around the battlefield, probing for weaknesses ... skirmishes at the side of the main force.

Classic stuff and very enjoyable. I think some people RvR just enough to dislike it.

Being zerged isn't much fun in a small party, but being part of the counter zerg sure is.

 

[Hulbur]

Most of the whines i c, is about one RA that makes it imposibble (sp?) to kill that class 1 on 1 if he/she has the RA up and rdy.

How often does that happen to you? Honestly!

This game and the RvR is not about balacing 1 vs 1 issues. So a tank with IP and Purge can take a caster out in 1o1, so what? Isnt that supposed to happen, how about the next caster comming along 5 mins later? He will take the tank out without even breaking a sweat!

You guys complain about IP? The one time I have used this RA in a 1o1 i won, yes! But that has only happend once. Mostly i get to use it to buy me about 10 secs more life in a massive zerg and maybe 200-400 more rp's because i lived longer.

Its not über, its just right for the price you pay.

Purge, same goes here.

Think what effect ur RA's has when 30 people get together in a face off with another 30. Not much i bet, not more then skill and luck can make up for.

So what, if an assasin gets you once in a while? Thats the class they play, and being able to take out people you get the jump on should be the most likely thing that could happen. And so what if assasin A takes out Assasin B because he has 1.000k more rp's?
Would you complain if it was because Assasin A had 2 more lvl's then B - NO you wouldnt, you woudld think it logical that B lost. Well try to think about how many hours A used to get that 1mill extra rp's

This game is designed so the more time you spend in it, the better you will be. If you want a game where everyone starts at the same spot everytime and have the same chances so only skill matters - play CS or quake.

My 2 coppers

 

[Tigerius]

Well Hulber you're right, but it's what stings people in the eyes the most. Lack of scope prevents people from enjoying the fact that the next person to come along will get the RP, they're just pissed over the sure RP they thought they had are lost.

I can't deny I myself get a bit annoyed at costantly fighting Eos and she always having IP up for those fights, but who can I blame but my incompetent realm mates that let her get out of so many encounters without using it.

The point is that this is exactly what 30 min RA's do, they help you win 1 duel/fight every 30 mins and to the person beaten by them that's incredibly frustrating as the timers are none of their limited concerns. They're just bound to be annoying to people.

 

[Blood]

zerging is the result of 1 thing, and 1 thing alone.. AE spells

imo they should remove all AE spells from the game

 

[Ardwan]

Originally posted by old.Blood|Prydwen
zerging is the result of 1 thing, and 1 thing alone.. AE spells

imo they should remove all AE spells from the game

Hell, sounds good to me

 

[Arlone]

IP is needed for tanks ... but tanks only. I see IP as a way of stealth - assasins (and other stealthers) use stealth to get to the enemy unseen while tanks have to run out in the open, charging 4 casters who can clearly see him coming. With IP there is a better chance of the tank actually making it all the way. Without IP there is no way in hell a tank would live more than 8 seconds against an evencon caster.

I don't understand why so many classes got IP tho. Assasins got it all now - IP, vanish, dodger, See hidden .. heck they are better tanks than Armsmen, can pick their fights easier than minstrels and if things get too hot - they can vanish/use IP and be gone again.

Keep IP and purge for tanks (in alb this would be Armsman, paladin and merc according to me). Thats the only RA we have thats any good but since most classes get it's not really that useful anymore.

I kind of fecked-up on my /respecc's so I'm without IP. Purge, Avoidance of magic and mastery of pain .. ack, I feel quite gimped without IP. But then again - you might need that IP after I critical hit you twice in a row with my pole

RA's are a funny way of balancing cause at the same time it also unbalances things even more than before. I welcome some of the RA's tho (the ones with less impact .. like mastery of things).

 

[nume]

Originally posted by old.Blood|Prydwen
zerging is the result of 1 thing, and 1 thing alone.. AE spells

imo they should remove all AE spells from the game

IMO this would overnight make a huge improvement in RvR

 

[~Mobius~]

There ok..i really hate how i nuke down a tank then it uses ip and is on full life next to me though

 

[old.Raziel]

The Real Problem is that mythic arsed up right from day one, they made PvE first, and let that carry over to RvR, so u have way to high dmg, all the probs with mezz and stun and so on.

thats one reason there are zerg's, the dmg is so high, that in one side cast a few AoE DD'd and a mezz then rush, the dmg is so high most people go down in about 5 seconds, so the rest run.

The big problem now is if they trying to fix things, like give classes new stuff or make them take less dmg, it ****s up PvE.

the RA's kind of just make it worse.


So IMO mythic cant fix RvR with out a complete rewrite, which they wont do, thus RvR will always be a mess

 

[Flimgoblin]

they never balanced the game above level 30

check out aoe mezz in the BGs - it's nasty but not that nasty - it doesn't last long enough.

1 minute standing around staring at the sky is pretty damned tedious..

there's some improvments to it - heal mezz/reduction in duration for aoe - which makes it less powerful but still keeps the mezzers in the game (that said, a lot will leave anyway because it sucks to be nerfed, no matter how needed for the rest of the game)

roll on 2.5 when they finally make RvR interesting

the rewards for taking keeps in 1.53 look interesting - might make RvR more than running between realm gates for most people