News Death row madness

[Mabs]

you dont want to execute people, ok

lobotomise them

then use them as menial workers, so they can pay a debt to society

road repair crews anyone ?

 

[Calaen]

See that's the kind of delusion that makes your pro-death opinions dangerous to society.

It happens, every day. You proposign tighter death laws(example ALL rapist), would mean MORE innocent deaths.

But you're ok with that?

I didn't ski your post, i ignored it as it was the usual "in my world" bullsh*t.

Oh and;



Want some salt with that foot? Or need it for backpeddling?

I've asked you to provide evidence of a paedophile being cured, if you can't do that don't comment. They are broken, they get off on different things, but you can't change that. That is what my post said, but in more words.

As for the class comment, no need to back peddle, being brought up with more class by my mother does not mean I am a classy person. However in the instance of the other thread, the comment was relevant, I was brought up to respect others/elders/figures of authority.

Now you can tear it apart, jump up and down and screamy BACK PEDDLE ROFL PUNCHYY PUNCHY all you want. However I really don't give a hoot what you think of me, nor my thought process when faced with an overly aggressive twat playing for brownie points infront of his homies and his been around the block girlfriend. (completely hypothetical, and over exaggerated situation of course)

I've pm'd you the rest, no need for it to fill the thread.

 

[Krazeh]

The death penalty has no place in a modern civilized society. It's an archaic tool designed for vengeance/retribution. It's use has nothing to do with justice, it's simply about getting a pound of flesh in retribution for wrongdoing. As a society we don't get to pick and choose who has human rights, they apply to everyone and our justice system, with it's associated punishment/rehabilitation, should reflect that.

 

[ford prefect]

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I am against the death penalty. However I do want to make a couple of points about the current system in the UK and some very obvious assumptions in this thread. Firstly prison isn’t comfortable or pleasant; it is a complete loss of liberty and it is as much about rehabilitation as it is about punishment. Any perks granted to a prisoner are earned for good behaviour and are decided on by a multi-disciplinary team on a case by case basis and are as quickly removed again as and when necessary. I would also like to point out that prison staff have a stressful and often dangerous job in a very charged environment – a bored prisoner is often a dangerous prisoner.

Now the UK system is broken, but it is broken by popular demand. To help people rehabilitate often requires professional help and aided introspection, but the resources’ required to do that would raise the budget, and as spending money on “criminals” is generally considered a negative thing by the public, so it simply doesn’t happen.

On average the UK prison population contains 37% of people who can be classified as mentally unwell, with conditions ranging from bipolar disorder, schizophrenia and even learning and social disabilities. When these people become violent and distressed in prison, they are simply confined and medicated, which isn’t a solution. Now lets cut through the crap here – these ARE people who can be helped (I am not saying they are not responsible for their actions, but there are mitigating circumstances). Unfortunately the prison system doesn’t employ any mental health professionals and metal health care in the UK see’s cuts almost yearly.

We spend a small fortune on medicating drug addicts, but the intervention simply isn’t there in prison to help them. Methadone isn’t a solution and never has been, if anything it is a dangerous stop gap measure and we don’t do anything to change the situation or to help addicts stabilise and recover.

It is easy to sit and read a paper, villainize people because we believe in whatever sells papers this week, but the sad truth is that a large proportion of the people who are in prison are there because we have a society and a social and medical system that has failed them completely.

Having worked with pretty much every kind of offender, I can honestly say the public view on the subject of prison, punishment and rehabilitation is so wide of the mark it isn’t even funny.

 

[Calaen]

Sorry but someone who rapes 3 year olds, has no part in society at all. Unless ofc your the kind of person don't mind watching a 3 year old get raped.

They prey on the weak and defenceless and they know they are doing it, and they know that it is wrong. In my opinion they sacrifice any human rights, the second they touch that child with the wrong intentions in mind.

 

[old.Tohtori]

To keep it on topic, even if i don't really care about your PM since it's the same patronising sh*t you spout every time, i'll just answer this;

I've asked you to provide evidence of a paedophile being cured, if you can't do that don't comment. They are broken, they get off on different things, but you can't change that. That is what my post said, but in more words.

I asked you about killing innocent before that, so how about you answer if you think ti's ok, by your new law of "kill all paedo and rapist"((which have cases of innocence mixed in), to kill said innocent people.

I didn't say paedos can be cured, no idea if they can or can't, no doctor here, but they can be integrated into society as much as murderers and rapists can.

Amd since you still did go to the other topic; if you were brought up to respect others, you wouldn't start punching them if they tell you to f*ck off.

I was brought up to respect others who deserve it and i give Scouse more respect since he won't start a fight, even if he can get gobby. Fighting someone over menial things is not respect.

Sorry but someone who rapes 3 year olds, has no part in society at all. Unless ofc your the kind of person don't mind watching a 3 year old get raped.

Right, so if i don't think it's ok to kill someone like that, i must like kiddie porn? How stupid can you get?

 

[Calaen]

Nice Post

Forgetting the people with medical illness, I agree with you in that regard, things can be done to help them.

For the drugs, I also agree 100% My uncle died at the age of 40 , he'd struggled with drug addiction for years, and also did prison time for store theft.

He got himself clean for a few years and actually held down a very good and high paid job, he inspected oil rigs for structural flaws. the problem cam about when he got the job and he had more money than he could deal with, the drugs crept back into his life. They gave the methadone to him, and just let him get on with it. At the end he was taking heroin, methadone and Tamazapan and whatever else he could get his hands on to stay in the state he enjoyed.

It's was very difficult to watch a very intelligent and caring person destroy himself, more so because he just could not see that he needed help, nor could he bring himself to accept it.

The thing I have a small disagreement with is the places where some offenders get sent to, there is a young offenders home near where I live. I have no problem with this at all, however they've got their pool table, consoles, tv's. Some of the kids in there don't have that at the home they have come from, and in some instances it's better for them to be inside.

We should be giving the young offenders skills with which to go out and get jobs/careers so they can have these things from honest work!

My ilk is towards the serious offenders, killing them may not deter others but it will remove them from the pool.

 

[Krazeh]

Sorry but someone who rapes 3 year olds, has no part in society at all. Unless ofc your the kind of person don't mind watching a 3 year old get raped.

They prey on the weak and defenceless and they know they are doing it, and they know that it is wrong. In my opinion they sacrifice any human rights, the second they touch that child with the wrong intentions in mind.

Removing someone from society doesn't require the death penalty. It's not the case that we either kill these people or let them roam free in general society.

As for the second part could you generalise any more? Yes I'm sure there are paedophiles out there who are entirely mentally compentent and know what they're doing is wrong in the same way you or I would know, but that doesn't mean that's the case for all of them. It's not as simple as looking at a situation, saying how you view it and then deciding that everyone else, regardless of mental condition, would view it in exactly the same way.

And you can't sacrifice your human rights, they're innate. You can choose to ignore someone's human rights but that's really not a direction i'd like to see taken by society as a whole.

 

[Calaen]

I was brought up to respect others who deserve it and i give Scouse more respect since he won't start a fight, even if he can get gobby. Fighting someone over menial things is not respect.

His lack of respect started the fight in the first place.

zz the ignore button is getting pressed again.

Your a prime example of why brothers and sisters shouldn't mate.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Glad you took your toys and Got TFO. Your limited working class insult vocabulary isn't really needed anyway.

Can't read and/or comment on a point? "I is ignoring you!!1"

Such a refined person.

Meant to negrep that post, but it reported it (Nevermind the report moddies).

 

[Krazeh]

For the love of god you two really need to cut this shit out, it's gettin tiresome. It was one fucking comment which clearly was worded badly and gave the wrong impression but you both need to stop banging on about it.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I simply started giving it back since Calaen has had a free reign to insult me in every possible way for a good while now.

If someone came around to practically every thread and started jammering on how a **** you are, how you're inbred, how you're less then a flaming turd, how they wouldn't care if you lived or died etc etc without anything happening...you'd get on their case after a while too.

But, consider it dropped.

 

[Krazeh]

I simply started giving it back since Calaen has had a free reign to insult me in every possible way for a good while now.

If someone came around to practically every thread and started jammering on how a **** you are, how you're inbred, how you're less then a flaming turd, how they wouldn't care if you lived or died etc etc without anything happening...you'd get on their case after a while too.

Well put him on ignore then. Believing someone is acting in a certain fashion shouldn't be taken as an invitation to stoop your own behaviour to that level, ignore it and move on. Basically stop acting like a child and grow up.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well put him on ignore then. Believing someone is acting in a certain fashion shouldn't be taken as an invitation to stoop your own behaviour to that level, ignore it and move on. Basically stop acting like a child and grow up.

It's great of you to call so many forum goers children

Shouldn't also, by that logic, you ignore what me and Calaen are arguing over? WElcome to the kiddiepool!

I don't ignore people, i find it rude and disrespectful. I welcome all arguments, but also hold the right to give back to moronics.

 

[Krazeh]

It's great of you to call so many forum goers children

Shouldn't also, by that logic, you ignore what me and Calaen are arguing over? WElcome to the kiddiepool!

I don't ignore people, i find it rude and disrespectful. I welcome all arguments, but also hold the right to give back to moronics.

I'm not going to get dragged into a tit-for-tat argument with you. You're free to try and fit what I said into whatever logic makes you feel better. I've said my piece and that's it.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yes yes, here's your toys, join Calaen and let the grown ups stay on f*cking topic.

Yeah, both you and Calaen were the ones dragging the topic away from it. Not how the following posts are going to say it, but it's a fact anyone can see.

 

[MYstIC G]

cba to read the article, is there a cost for each "non executed" lifer?

 

[Calaen]

cba to read the article, is there a cost for each "non executed" lifer?

I'm sure someone put figures up early on in the thread.

 

[Krazeh]

Whilst the death penalty is indeed a economical sham, the figures have been moulded to be misleading.

$4 bn in costs since start with 700 inmates on death row. Assuming 25 years for each and the fact 2011-1978 is 33 years, the average cost per member on death row is probably closer to $5 million dollars. All they have done is taken the 13 who actually did get executed & divided $4bn by them to get $308 million. When you take into account the opportunity cost of housing them in a normal prison: in the fiscal year of 2007 it was about $25,000 x 25 years (rough calculation) => $625000. Which is still an epic ~$4.3 million more than those in normal prison. I wonder what % of that is legal fees? Lawyers no doubt love death row.

^ posted earlier

 

[MYstIC G]

Cheers, I missed that.

 

[Shagrat]

Staggering amounts of money for keeping people on death row. But in a country where some people are in jail PRE trial for nine years then its only to be expected really. The prison system in the UK and the us is a mess and a lot of problem seems to be that for a lot of inmates prison life is "easier" than life outside. Like someone else has already said, the money needs to be spent on making society as a whole better, not prison worse.

 

[MYstIC G]

Having thought about it, I'd be interested to see the cost breakdown between "inmate" and "legal costs". Realistically if you've already got a jail and you've got to keep the bugger in there then the incarceration costs can't be that different, no?

 

[Krazeh]

Having thought about it, I'd be interested to see the cost breakdown between "inmate" and "legal costs". Realistically if you've already got a jail and you've got to keep the bugger in there then the incarceration costs can't be that different, no?

It'd be interesting to see but I imagine tricky to get hold of those figures. Altho I would expect the vast majority of the extra costs to be down to legal costs with the remaining extra being down to increased security for death row incarceration.

 

[ford prefect]

I vaguely remember reading in a study that around 30% of US criminal legal work is done on Legal Aid, which like the british system is woefully underfunded. I suspect that percentage may be substantially higher when it comes to death row inmates - wherever you are legal representation in a murder case for example is expensive whether it is you or the state paying - but also consider that the US has the mandetory Pro-Bono system in many states too, meaning that to set up a legal firm in one of those states that firm must donate X-amount of hours towards Pro-Bono work in order to fulfil state required obligations. I am pretty sure that California is one of those states.

I suppose my point is that the legal costs of a murder trial for example are always high, but we are talking a small percentage of that figure.

 

[Deebs]

His lack of respect started the fight in the first place.

zz the ignore button is getting pressed again.

Your a prime example of why brothers and sisters shouldn't mate.

Glad you took your toys and Got TFO. Your limited working class insult vocabulary isn't really needed anyway.

Can't read and/or comment on a point? "I is ignoring you!!1"

Such a refined person.

Meant to negrep that post, but it reported it (Nevermind the report moddies).

The pair of you knock it on the head. This is getting tiresome and I know Jup is back and itching to use his stick on someone.....