Death penalty

[Abriael]

"I want choices and death to matter, to be meaningful" - Mark Jacobs.

"choices". Death in RvR isn't most often a matter of choice, and that sentence doesn't in any way imply any sort of xp loss.

 

[Jairon Kalach]

"choices". Death in RvR isn't most often a matter of choice, and that sentence doesn't in any way imply any sort of xp loss.

"and death". Implies that there are two separate things he wants to matter.

 

[Tanos]

It is not only about running back, it is more about splitting up groups. That can lead to running back all the time instead of having fights, but also to single persons beeing left behind and not able to get back to the action once they died because they got no speed or get farmed on their way back and so on.

 

[Nomans]

Another way around this is if you die, you don't lose xp or receive rezz illness as such, maybe a system that stops you using your abilities you gain from the horizontal progression.

 

[Muylaetrix]

...What kind of penalties can there be that dont just make you stop playing?...

noone wants a death penalty that makes people stop playing (temp or permanently).

 

[Cazedy]

As for death penalties I'd just go for some form of timed debuff to all your stats like the one we had in dark age, that added with the soul thing MJ was talking about should be more then enough.

You have to remember that EXP in CU will be exactly the same as RPs was in dark age, so an exp penalty will only promote and reward people to stay with the zergball and never do anything organized like a roaming 8man

What I find interesting is that the few times I've seen MJ give examples about death meaning something, he's talked about the long runback. However, based on the conversation in this community, that seems to be something of a fun-sucker, as opposed to an interesting penality. I almost wonder if for "fun" purposes it doesn't make more sense to have you lose items in your inventory or lose XP, or lose one of those things, but be able to stay in the action/get back in the action more easily.

On the other hand, for long term strategy, being able to easily get into the action is completely against one of the things that MJ has stated as a goal: Enabling strategy to beat numbers.

I don't think anyone here likes the insta-rvr in daoc that NF brought with the keep porting etc, at least not me.

 

[Xrystofer]

Boat travelling to die wasn't exactly fun.

I am wondering if there will be some kind of speed in the game...

 

[Aeis]

I Think Healers should have a castable ress, and that the ressed person either get a sickness or a piece of their soul or whatever is missing so that they are weaker for a couple of minutes.
If all healers die, well to bad Group, you now have to run back and get them since you did not manage to keep them alive.... There you have the choices that matters and Death have concequence.

 

[boxfetish]

noone wants a death penalty that makes people stop playing (temp or permanently).

Personally, I would prefer a mechanic that dinged me a small amount (say 1%) of my XP and gold each time I was rezzed (not died, not released, but was rezzed by a healer) and left the availability of rezzes and time spent to get back to battles closer to what it is in other games.

To me, being completely out of a battle and a 10 minute run back to the fighting every time I died would be more of a quitting point than losing a slight amount of XP and gold each time I chose to be rezzed by a realm mate.


I do see the need for some time to get back to fights, however. But, if my choices were:

1. No combat rezzes and a 10+ minute run back to any fight, or

2. Very limited combat rezzing, 1% XP and gold loss whenever accepting a rez, or a 2-3 minute run back to a fight

I would take 2. every time.

 

[Mkilbride]

MJ already said he doesn't want you to kill someone and be fighting them again 5 minutes later @ 100%, so most likely 2-3 minutes is out.

 

[boxfetish]

Yes, we have all seen what he has said, just as you have. You needn't continually speak as if the rest of us are unaware of what MJ has already said.

I was merely stating an opinion that small XP and/or gold loss death penalties are preferable to a "die once and your out of the fight because of the time it takes to get back" death penalty. MJ has stated that he thinks player looting is a quitting point, but he has not definitely stated that gold or xp loss are too. He should be aware that some people will find a "one death and your done with that fight" mechanic to be more of a quitting point than a small currency or XP loss (within reason).

In any case, it will be interesting to be a part of the delicate balancing that will need to occur around death penalties. In my opinion, there isn't much space to play with anymore between "death is pointless/meaningless" and "death is frustrating enough that it makes a player want to log".

 

[Vesir]

Boat travelling to die wasn't exactly fun.

I am wondering if there will be some kind of speed in the game...

yes there will be speed classes

 

[Muylaetrix]

And you do get penalized for dying to often in GW2, the more you go down the easier it will be to kill you outright. After 3 downs you basically have no "safe" life left to try and get up with.

you are talking about a penalty for being downed, not one for dieing.

That would depend on how hard it is to get the XP back, if it's like in vanilla DAoC then it's a horrible idea...

dieing on my way back to my grave marker before i was 50 in DAoC

 

[Aeis]

MJ already said he doesn't want you to kill someone and be fighting them again 5 minutes later @ 100%, so most likely 2-3 minutes is out.

So then my idea works. Just put a casting time of 10 seconds on the rezz and no one will be doing it in combat. If the winning team rezz the dead team mates the other team still has to release and run back and that would take 10 minutes or however long distance you set...

2. Very limited combat rezzing, 1% XP and gold loss whenever accepting a rez, or a 2-3 minute run back to a fight

The idea about losing % of something was not good at all. Every gold coin would be put on alts. And also at a certain amount of experience you do not gain anything from engaging in PvP. Even if you Kill 10 times more than you die, the exp you lose when you do die is Worth so much more than what you gain...
In daoc I Believe there was a small fee (not percentage based) to be teleported back when you died. That works... The percentage stuff does not!

 

[Ctuchik]

you are talking about a penalty for being downed, not one for dieing.

Yes but the end result is the same. You get downed to often and then you die = Pain in the ass to get rezzed if in combat.

 

[Delavega86]

i just dont wanna see any "xp loss" type of penalty.
if i remember correctly,
MJ said there wont be any resurection abilities (really?? not even long-cast out-of-combat skills?!)
plus there would be resurection sickness.
so the penalty would be that you'd have a long way to run after you die,
or if the battle is near the respawn point, you still wont be able to enter the battle immediately.