David cocking Blunkett

[oblimov]

unemployed = The money saved on paying them could be used to create jobs for them, those that dont want to work can starve imo

low income = the money saved could allow the govt to increase the min wage to ensure everyone is on at least a gauranteed minimum, personally i feel that current minimum wage gives nearly 10k a year which is enuff imo, if you cant afford to work full time then whats the reason?! if its coz u got kids then why did you have them if you cant afford to?!

sick = this makes me mad tbh, the amount of ***** on benefit claiming disability or extended sick leave while sitting on their arse having a nice wee holiday if your genuienly sick (i.e. proven clinically not just coz u say u are) then you would get sick pay seperate from benefits

The majority of the time i just feel that the majority of people on benefits are complete wasters whove gotten to used to sitting on their arse, if they wanted a job they could get one, theres no lack of minimum wage jobs doing things that ok might not be the most interesting but working is what people who want to be part of a productive society do.

maybe this is just the values that i was taugh as a child by my family but for me not working is the biggest waste of the talent we have as human beings

 

[Gurnox]

The idea that this 'problem' is down to lazy scroungers is BOLLOCKS. these people are a result of the way our society runs. the poor stay poor, with no hope.

Couldn't agree with you more there Maxi.

I think part of societies problems are down to a kind of 'them and us' mentality. Hell, let's call it what it is - Snobbery.

Prince Charles and his 'people should know their station' comments are just one symptom. But you'd kind of expect it from him. What annoys me more are people who take a dig at single mothers, the unemployed e.t.c. People sometimes don't realise how easy it is to fall into severe problems, financial or otherwise, and how difficult it is to get back out of them.

The welfare state is there for a reason. You think the capitalist nirvana of private enterprise running society would work? Dream on......

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Fuck me we have Commies in our midst!

 

[Gurnox]

Fuck me we have Commies in our midst!

I'm hardly a commie comra.... Damn!

 

[maxi]

The majority of the time i just feel that the majority of people on benefits are complete wasters whove gotten to used to sitting on their arse, if they wanted a job they could get one, theres no lack of minimum wage jobs doing things that ok might not be the most interesting but working is what people who want to be part of a productive society do.

just for second think about what happens if you lose your job. you can't get another doing what you did and the only thing on offer is a job in a factory packing.

think you're above the status of a packer in a factory? infact, ignore the 'think' bit. you KNOW you are worth more than that.

I'm not even going to ask whether you'd keep at the job for more than a week.

anyone heard McCarthy - Well of Lonliness?

 

[oblimov]

i know of people who started out in IT years ago and due to them learning some redundant skills etc they were forced to work in supermarkets after being made redundant,

I think the whole point is you do what you have to do to survive and if that means working in a factory until something better comes along then you do it

You shouldnt think

"oh fuck i got sacked from a 40k a year job doing XXX, im now not ever going to work for less than this and not unless im doing XXX again"

on a side note if the govt actually made benefits pay less than min wage (and im talking about the benefits you can pull in combined through disability claims and fraud etc) then maybe peeps would just accept work instead of sitting on their arse watchin trisha

imo communism is a good idea it just doesnt work in principle the whole animal farm thing happens

 

[throdgrain]

I dont think Prince Charles meant that at all. Its not about knowing ur station, its about being aware that not everybody can be a brain surgeon, andtheres no wrong in that.
The current educational standards and exams are totally belittled by the fact that its almost impossible to fail.
How can I got an F but i didnt fail be right? Its all about inclusion, but it serves no purpose.
The idea also that we must send 50% of our population to university also goes along with the same thing. Its not suprising theres hardly any teenagers with jobs out there, they are all at university doing degrees in media studies and philosophy or learning klingon. It helps no one.
Thats what I think ol Charly boy was saying, and I for one agree with him.

 

[maxi]

but the world we live in says "yes you can all be rich and famous!! and you should want to as well" that's what keeps capitalism going. Greed! So if people are being told XXX isa job of status and YYY isn't, everyone will want to do XXX, but they can't, obviously. It's daft to say people should know, when we're told every day that to be loaded is to be happy, yet the very fucking principle of Loaded=Happy is what's keeping you shmucks in the gutter and those guys in the Db7s.

Uni isn't for everyone I agree, but the idea of going to uni is all about status again. You're clearly more intelligent if you go. (total bollocks)

 

[oblimov]

you would be more intelligent if you went to uni if they didnt lower the entry requirements so damn much that you basically need to be able to grunt, click and work a pencil

 

[throdgrain]

Which then spoils it for the people who really need to go.
Its even true in school sixth form. My son goes, and is quite bright, but he says half the people there dont even bother to work, they get paid thirty quid off the government.
Hence it fucks it up for him too...

 

[maxi]

i worded that last bit incorrectly. I don't think it's valid to gauge Intelligence purely by tests and IQ. Some people aren't wired that way, and shouldn't feel bad because of it. Also i dont think it's valid to grant status to Joe because his IQ is higher than Jims, and I'm pretty good at IQ tests.

 

[Gurnox]

The current educational standards and exams are totally belittled by the fact that its almost impossible to fail.
How can I got an F but i didnt fail be right? Its all about inclusion, but it serves no purpose.

But by the same account, people realise that an 'F' is not the same as an 'A'. It's really just semantics. To most people, anything less than a 'C' is a failure.

I'm not totally anti Prince Charles. He says what he thinks, which at least is more than most 'royalty'. Rather ironic, in the current context of this thread, that the royal family currently inhabit the biggest council house in the country. But that is neither here nor there.

I think it's a complete myth that the majority of people on benefits are basically 'sitting on their arse watchin trisha'. I don't doubt that there are a minority who do, but there are people on long-term benefits, be they unemployment or sickness, who genuinely can't find work.

What would you do if you had an accident that prevented you from working? Or you lost your job, during a recession say, and had a mortgage/rent that needed paying? Grin and bear it? I don't think so. You'd be down to the dole queue and be bloody glad it was still there.

 

[Vae]

Prince Charles and his 'people should know their station' comments are just one symptom. But you'd kind of expect it from him. What annoys me more are people who take a dig at single mothers, the unemployed e.t.c. People sometimes don't realise how easy it is to fall into severe problems, financial or otherwise, and how difficult it is to get back out of them.

And what annoys me is people who listen to the media spin on things without reading the facts. Prince Charles was not saying people should lack ambition or that they should be happy with their station. He was criticising the schools are a "child-centred system which admits no failure" and leads people to believe they are entitled to achieve greatness without "putting in the necessary effort or having the natural abilities".

Even his comment that "What is it that makes everyone seem to think they are qualified to do things far beyond their technical capabilities?" doesn't exclude people from having ambitions, rather people should not unreasonably expect to think they are qualified to do things they aren't qualified to do. People should still have ambitions but should take steps to achieve them (by hard work or talent) rather than expect the opportunities to fall into their laps which is what he believes the school system is leading them to believe.

I would think that his efforts with the Princes Trust, helping disadvantaged youngsters who are willing to put in effort, over many years should be adequate evidence to demonstrate that his comments have been spun or misinterpreted to further the governments or medias aims. The trust helps many young people out with financial assistance where they have ambition and are showing willing to put in effort (they have to come up with a business plan for their proposed business).

 

[Vae]

But by the same account, people realise that an 'F' is not the same as an 'A'. It's really just semantics. To most people, anything less than a 'C' is a failure.

I'm not totally anti Prince Charles. He says what he thinks, which at least is more than most 'royalty'. Rather ironic, in the current context of this thread, that the royal family currently inhabit the biggest council house in the country. But that is neither here nor there.

I think it's a complete myth that the majority of people on benefits are basically 'sitting on their arse watchin trisha'. I don't doubt that there are a minority who do, but there are people on long-term benefits, be they unemployment or sickness, who genuinely can't find work.

What would you do if you had an accident that prevented you from working? Or you lost your job, during a recession say, and had a mortgage/rent that needed paying? Grin and bear it? I don't think so. You'd be down to the dole queue and be bloody glad it was still there.

The Royal Family might be considered to have a 'council house' but only the working royals receive money from the government and considering the amount of work they do it's probably warrented. I remember reading about a study that had been performed to evaluate the value of the Royal family for the amount of engagements they perform in comparison to what it would cost to have a ceremonial president etc to replace them in carrying out all these diplomatic engagements. The study came to the conclusion that the Royal family represented rather good value for money.

I think peoples main gripe with the welfare state is the people who are either abusing it or who are able to work but refuse to do so. Now this may be perceived to be a larger amount of people than it actually is but when you hear about troublesome families living off the dole and they are the ones causing trouble on estates etc it sticks in your mind. The media also sensationalises stories like this so it probably is out of proportion.

In my opinion if you are collecting the dole there should be an initial period during which you can and are encouraged to find work after which you have a choice. If you want to continue to receive dole you should have to attend and make an effort on courses to help you get back to work or do a form of community service for so many hours a week. This could be in the form of public works projects in each area, be it generally cleaning up the area or something bigger - something which actually benefits the local people rather than having people collecting the dole and making no effort to work or benefit the community of people who are actually in effect funding them on the dole.

 

[throdgrain]

What would you do if you had an accident that prevented you from working? Or you lost your job, during a recession say, and had a mortgage/rent that needed paying? Grin and bear it? I don't think so. You'd be down to the dole queue and be bloody glad it was still there.

I didnt say I did. I have lost my job through recession, I have been on the dole twice in my life, once for over a year. Ive also lived in council estates for most of my life.
There is a sit on my arse and watch Trisha mentality in some places.
The great problem is, when I was 16 it wasnt really much to be ashamed of, to have a council house. You just did.
Then the tories sold off all the council houses. (I bought one).
However, we all thought that new houese would be built, but that didnt happen did it. Oh no. So, councils are so short of housing that you can only get one if ,basically, you're a teenage unmairried mother. Or an asylum seeker I supose, but we wont go into that.
So, all the council houses are full of people with no ambition, just 2 or 3 kids, often by different fathers. Theres no room for anyone else. Thus, the kids grow up withour male "going to work" role models, they simply believe if you put your hand out someone will give you money. Or a new bed. Or whatever.
And you know what? Its true.
But meanwhile, the rest of the population, people who strive to better themselves, who have jobs, cannot buy a house, because a small 2and a half bedroom house in Crawley costs at least 160k, when the avarage advertised job for the non-university going bloke ( ) is maybe 20k per annum. So they are fucked.

edit, not all the houses obviously, but there IS lots

 

[Bullitt]

I think it's a complete myth that the majority of people on benefits are basically 'sitting on their arse watchin trisha'. I don't doubt that there are a minority who do, but there are people on long-term benefits, be they unemployment or sickness, who genuinely can't find work.

What would you do if you had an accident that prevented you from working? Or you lost your job, during a recession say, and had a mortgage/rent that needed paying? Grin and bear it? I don't think so. You'd be down to the dole queue and be bloody glad it was still there.

Absolutely agree, I'm currently on benefits after graduating and i'm having a tough time finding any job - not through lack of effort I might add. I 'signed on' when I absolutely had to, I cashed my childrens bond and reached my absolute overdraft limit on my bank balance before I did so I was effectively financially crippled. Thank god my parents care to be honest. Because of the benefits I can afford to learn to drive and effectively double my chances of finding a job when I pass my test.

I implore anyone to think of what 'proof' or evidence you have of people receiving benefits as lazy half-arsed bums - possibly watching trisha. I can garauntee most of your hateful view has stemmed from the media. They lead the people, and they're often as bad as any politician imho.

 

[Tom]

I wish people would stop using the catch-all 'The Media', and use 'The Press', since its the latter that creates the headlines, and the former that reports on the facts.

 

[Tom]

I remember before 9-11 when everyone was whining about the proposed terroism act taking away people liberty. Well the ability to detain people at will for suspected terroism has probably saved alot of lives since then.

On the subject of ID cards i think they should go the whole hog and take DNA samples from everyone it would do wonders to the crime rates. Think of all the rapists that would be caught immediately.

Curtis also cites the Home Office's own statistics for arrests and convictions of suspected terrorists since September 11 2001. Of the 664 people detained up to the end of last month, only 17 have been found guilty. Of these, the majority were Irish Republicans, Sikh militants or members of other groups with no connection to Islamist terrorism. Nobody has been convicted who is a proven member of al-Qaida.

Regarding DNA samples, firstly they aren't reliable enough to be used in the way you suggest, secondly you seem to be suggesting that a woman's word is never wrong, when in actual fact women can tell lies just as easily as men.

 

[oblimov]

I implore anyone to think of what 'proof' or evidence you have of people receiving benefits as lazy half-arsed bums - possibly watching trisha. I can garauntee most of your hateful view has stemmed from the media. They lead the people, and they're often as bad as any politician imho.

hmmm u kinda show me here m8

u graduate and instead of taking a "normal" job inbetween you cash ur kids bonds and go on the dole?!?

surely u could have worked at a mediocre level of employment while looking for graduate jobs like the rest of us had to

Again its all back to people not accepting their station, if theres no uber jobs u take a shit one to survive you dont sit on yer arse till a good un comes along

 

[Wij]

I dont think Prince Charles meant that at all. Its not about knowing ur station, its about being aware that not everybody can be a brain surgeon, andtheres no wrong in that.
The current educational standards and exams are totally belittled by the fact that its almost impossible to fail.
How can I got an F but i didnt fail be right? Its all about inclusion, but it serves no purpose.
The idea also that we must send 50% of our population to university also goes along with the same thing. Its not suprising theres hardly any teenagers with jobs out there, they are all at university doing degrees in media studies and philosophy or learning klingon. It helps no one.
Thats what I think ol Charly boy was saying, and I for one agree with him.

fs throd - what's wrong with a degree in philosophy ? I got my place at a proper Uni by getting 2 As and a B in A-levels despite spending all day in the pub. Not sure of my point now but

 

[Bullitt]

hmmm u kinda show me here m8

u graduate and instead of taking a "normal" job inbetween you cash ur kids bonds and go on the dole?!?

surely u could have worked at a mediocre level of employment while looking for graduate jobs like the rest of us had to

Again its all back to people not accepting their station, if theres no uber jobs u take a shit one to survive you dont sit on yer arse till a good un comes along

That's the thing, I started off applying for the jobs that suited my degree, however that's a tough nut to crack (3D artist) and as such my portfolio isn't up to scratch. So for the past 3 months or so I have been applying for every single job (good or shit) that I am capable of performing.

You really want to know the response? If indeed I get any at all - "Your overqualified" Well whoop de fucking doo, thanks alot.

 

[Turamber]

The majority of people who are against this kind of thing usually have something to hide, why should u care if "big brother" is watching you? surely if your not doing anything illegal then youve no worries at all

It's because the definition of what is wrong is not set in stone. Because having such data assumes people to be at fault, whereas in the eyes of the law we are supposedly innocent until proven guilty. Your argument is extremely short sighted.

 

[Bullitt]

I wish people would stop using the catch-all 'The Media', and use 'The Press', since its the latter that creates the headlines, and the former that reports on the facts.

I say the media because (in my opinion) it's all the same shit, whether it's more in your face Red Banner Headlines "Dole sponging Mother earns bla bla bla!!!!1" "Asylum seekers stealing your jobs and eating your children!!!!1" or a man in a suit on the bbc news with pie charts and graphs and 'non-opinionated' they both will tend to lead opinions in a certain direction.

 

[throdgrain]

fs throd - what's wrong with a degree in philosophy ? I got my place at a proper Uni by getting 2 As and a B in A-levels despite spending all day in the pub. Not sure of my point now but

What job are you hoping it will get you ? Professional philosophiser ? (Is that a word?? )
Anyway, all this lot blythly ignore the fact that THERE ARE PLENTY OF PEOPLE OUT THERE LIVING PURELY ON THE STATE SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY CAN.
Sorry if I said that a bit loud guys, just wanted to attract your attention.
And you ought to know me by know, im not a Daily Mail reader being outraged, I LIVE IN THIS PLACE.

 

[Tom]

To compare television and the press, you'd have to be comparing the Daily Mail to Brass Eye, which kind of demonstrates the differences between the two formats.

National television news is on the whole a balanced medium, whereas the newspapers have a clear political agenda.

 

[Tom]

BTW, Throddy is right. You can argue the causes until you're blue in the face, but there will always be a minority of the population that is just plain lazy. Usually, they're at the lower end of the intelligence spectrum.

 

[oblimov]

That's the thing, I started off applying for the jobs that suited my degree, however that's a tough nut to crack (3D artist) and as such my portfolio isn't up to scratch. So for the past 3 months or so I have been applying for every single job (good or shit) that I am capable of performing.

You really want to know the response? If indeed I get any at all - "Your overqualified" Well whoop de fucking doo, thanks alot.

fair point to you m8

i had the same problem with a few support jobs i tried for when i was out of work for a month

 

[Wij]

What job are you hoping it will get you ? Professional philosophiser ? (Is that a word?? )

I got a job in IT 10 years ago. Professional Philosopher would have been better. I could probably have dedicated my life to alcohol more easily in that job.

 

[Bodhi]

hmmm u kinda show me here m8

u graduate and instead of taking a "normal" job inbetween you cash ur kids bonds and go on the dole?!?

surely u could have worked at a mediocre level of employment while looking for graduate jobs like the rest of us had to

Again its all back to people not accepting their station, if theres no uber jobs u take a shit one to survive you dont sit on yer arse till a good un comes along

I'm sorry but you're a fucking cock and a fucking disgrace to the Scottish nation. You clearly don't understand the point of going to university in the first place. You spend 3-4 years (O.K 6 in my case, but then I was enjoying myself FAR too much) of your life, get into tens of thousands of pounds of debt so that you don't have to do a mediocre job like the "rest of you have to". I've tried this approach, working for a local temping agency since I graduated, and I tell you its fucking soul destroying working in a job far below your station. I'd take Trisha over a wanky job anyday of the week. In fact I have, being currently unemployed. Haven't signed on yet, tho. I need to start getting out of bed before the dole office shuts i guess.

Oh and working is a fucking shit way to spend your life. I don't blame anyone who decides its not for them.

 

[old.user4556]

(re Oblimov) I'm sorry but you're a fucking cock

Stop stealing my insults!

...and Oblimov, my dad was made redundant twice within 5 years and to read the absolute shite you've churned out makes me want to stamp on your face with a pair of golf shoes because i've never been so fucking insulted on these forums before.

We had to struggle to get by whilst he was on the dole and he tried his fucking hardest to get a job: working on his CV, phoning potential employers all over the UK, every day (something he couldn't have done in a COCKING NORMAL JOB) for weeks/months, orchestrating letters to potential employers, showing for interviews ET ALL.

So he's meant to get a "mediocre" then? How the fuck is that going to keep his kids at uni? The mortgage payments up? The food on the table for a family of five? There was no option of working in a "normal" job packing shelves in a supermarket.

What constitutes a normal job anyway?