Dark age of buff-a-lot

[Tua]

The only problem with buffbots, since all stealthers have several, is the rest of the people playing this game, in particular classes like shaman, druid, bard, friar - and to lesser extends clerics and healers, who enjoy soloing - for these soloing is now impossible, since theyve lost their major advantage over the assassin classes which roam the frontiers in far to great numbers.

oh, and cyclodia have been an ignorant little fool ever since he started playing

 

[Dorin]

The only problem with buffbots, since all stealthers have several, is the rest of the people playing this game, in particular classes like shaman, druid, bard, friar - and to lesser extends clerics and healers, who enjoy soloing - for these soloing is now impossible, since theyve lost their major advantage over the assassin classes which roam the frontiers in far to great numbers.

oh, and cyclodia have been an ignorant little fool ever since he started playing

stealthers classes whom are enjoying 24/7 unvisibility is shit game design from start.

 

[Tua]

stealthers classes whom are enjoying 24/7 unvisibility is shit game design from start.

Well, the construction of stealther classes, is flawed game design .. in my opinion..

 

[Belomar]

Old whine, and holds no interest anymore since we all know nothing will change.

BBs used to be agaisnt the ToCs

Having a buffbot was never against the CoC, you dimwit, it is only a fashionable thing to say for the whiners (i.e. along the lines of "the good ole days").

 

[Danya]

The only problem with buffbots, since all stealthers have several, is the rest of the people playing this game, in particular classes like shaman, druid, bard, friar - and to lesser extends clerics and healers, who enjoy soloing - for these soloing is now impossible, since theyve lost their major advantage over the assassin classes which roam the frontiers in far to great numbers.

Non-stealth classes ahve always had a massive disadvantage when soloing, buffbots haven't really changed that significantly.

 

[Tua]

Non-stealth classes ahve always had a massive disadvantage when soloing, buffbots haven't really changed that significantly.

i invite you to re-read my post young mr elfie, im referring to classes usually known as buffing classes.

How have buff bots not changed to balance significantly between these two types of classes?

 

[Ballad]

Play on Camlann if you want 1 vs 1.

 

[Danya]

They have affected it, but to say that assassins using buffbots is alone responsible for preventing them from soloing effectively is just sheer hyperbole. Fact is as a non-stealth soloer there are many more issues than assassins not the least of which is getting steamrolled by full groups. Buff classes haven't been able to solo stealthers since the smite cleric days, if you think otherwise you need to take off the rose-tinted glasses.

 

[Laston]

Well, the construction of stealther classes, is flawed game design .. in my opinion..

<raises hand> hi my name is bill and im a... Friar... i tried to go solo in Emain, i <sob> i... i... got...







hmm rly bored atm :touch:

 

[Gorrion]

Old whine, and holds no interest anymore since we all know nothing will change.

Having a buffbot was never against the CoC, you dimwit, it is only a fashionable thing to say for the whiners (i.e. along the lines of "the good ole days").

You have always been a no-brain Belomar, you dont have to remind us :kissit:
If anyone is dimwitted, its the players who have had seen the need to buy a 2nd account to play daoc.
The word "whine" will always be used by those who can see the point in a topic, but wont have to deal with it in a adult discussion, so if you have nothing else to say in the matter i suggest you crawl back to you'r playground.

 

[Gorrion]

Non-stealth classes ahve always had a massive disadvantage when soloing, buffbots haven't really changed that significantly.

Non-stealth classes have a disadvantage in solo rvr, true, you cant hide if a fg or zerk comes you'r way, and realm guards can make life hard, when running around without stealth. But after the rvr dungeons arrived in Daoc, beeing a solo non-stealther can be quite funny and thrilling, atleast untill you run into a buffed opponent.
If mythic really have the ball's the right place they would make all Buffs ranged AND group required !!!

 

[Bunnytwo]

Is a shame that Mythic won't get rid of BBs, even more of a shame that some peeps decided they couldn't play without having the advantage of one (not talking about now, but in early days of game).

Nothings gonna change though, cos well Mythic/GoA gets the money, BBd people are happy and those who haven't got one yet will prob stick around cos they've stuck with it so far.

BTW ouch nice putdown Gorrion :worthy:

Be nice to hear what a rep had to say on the issue, not so much from the CoC position (cos it isn't against it) as from the money grabbing perspective, pref without just blaming Mythic, cos well GoA always do a "we (not Mythic) are proud to announce" when something good comes along, so if can take credit can take a bit of as well, and if they have no input to developments in the game then whats the point.

 

[Mojo]

If anyone is dimwitted, its the players who have had seen the need to buy a 2nd account to play daoc.

That's alot of dimwitted players tbh me included,
to my dimwittedness

/edit typos

 

[Bunnytwo]

>The only fair and square method would be to set up a kind of buff-o-matic (working like an ATM) whereever you zone into a map where you could subscribe to a certain amount of buffs by paying a differentiated monthly fee. That would eliminate the difference between those that dont have the hardware necessary to run two accounts and those that have everything fixed.

Yep but then people would stop using BBs and the server population figures would prob look rather grim then. This way they can still trumpet about how many people play. Most of all the amount of money they make from people having to buy that extra DAOC, SI and TOA and then Cats must have them laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Spix]

I agree that buffbots is gimping classes with selfbuffs.

Compare a Thane with a warrior as example, thane with selfbuffs vs a warrior makes the fight pretty even or in the thanes favour.

Compare a Thane with a warrior, both with buffbots, the warrior kicks the crap out of the thane.
Add determination to warrior and the thane is not very usable in RvR groups anymore exept for interupting even though it is getting better...

But unfortunatly Mythics game design is conflicting, they balance test the chars as they are with their chars own tools and then say thanes are fine... aswell as hunters dont get better defence then evade2 since we have our selfbuff, while they keep buffbots in game by allowing 2 clients on one comp, no range on buffs when they have proved how easy it is to implement (end regen).

Game would be so much better with range on buffs since 1 buffer in a group would not be enough to buff whole group and , friars, thanes and other selfbuff hybrids would be able to take part in the daylight rvr and compete better in the way their classes are designed.

And yah I have a buffbot, but it only benefits my chars 50% of what other non selfbuff chars with buffbots enjoy, sort of.

Make the selfbuffs stack with conc buffs from primary buffer or atleast give them 50% bonus and it would even out the field a bit. Or remove selfbuffs and give half of the stats they give to the character and remove 0.5 spec points.

 

[Belomar]

You have always been a no-brain Belomar, you dont have to remind us :kissit:

I'm sorry, but you are the one who can't post a single message to FH without whining about buffbots while the rest of us shut up and put up with it, knowing it will never change. A donkey only falls into the same hole once, but I guess you don't even measure up to those standards.

 

[Gorrion]

I'm sorry, but you are the one who can't post a single message to FH without whining about buffbots while the rest of us shut up and put up with it, knowing it will never change. A donkey only falls into the same hole once, but I guess you don't even measure up to those standards.

Omg, you said IT, the 1 in a million chance that i would ever have dreamed of it, "Whining about buffbot's while the rest of us shut up and put up with it" by saying this you actually agree with me that buffbots is a factor in Daoc that is really anoying and very unfair to the ballance of classes and the game play (rvr) overall. thank's Belomar!!
BUT I DONT PUT UP WITH IT, when i know that it is I who are right in this discussion (Discussion NOT a "whine")
Regarding holes, it seem you have been living in one for a long long time, everytime someone challange you'r opinion you close the lid with a "omg a Whine"

 

[Gorrion]

I agree that buffbots is gimping classes with selfbuffs.

Compare a Thane with a warrior as example, thane with selfbuffs vs a warrior makes the fight pretty even or in the thanes favour.

Compare a Thane with a warrior, both with buffbots, the warrior kicks the crap out of the thane.
Add determination to warrior and the thane is not very usable in RvR groups anymore exept for interupting even though it is getting better...

But unfortunatly Mythics game design is conflicting, they balance test the chars as they are with their chars own tools and then say thanes are fine... aswell as hunters dont get better defence then evade2 since we have our selfbuff, while they keep buffbots in game by allowing 2 clients on one comp, no range on buffs when they have proved how easy it is to implement (end regen).

Game would be so much better with range on buffs since 1 buffer in a group would not be enough to buff whole group and , friars, thanes and other selfbuff hybrids would be able to take part in the daylight rvr and compete better in the way their classes are designed.

And yah I have a buffbot, but it only benefits my chars 50% of what other non selfbuff chars with buffbots enjoy, sort of.

Make the selfbuffs stack with conc buffs from primary buffer or atleast give them 50% bonus and it would even out the field a bit. Or remove selfbuffs and give half of the stats they give to the character and remove 0.5 spec points.

Some very good fact's and idea's presented here

 

[Belomar]

by saying this you actually agree with me that buffbots is a factor in Daoc that is really anoying and very unfair to the ballance of classes and the game play (rvr) overall. thank's Belomar!!

I never said I agree with buffbots--they are useful in PvE (extra inventory space, easy item transfer, helps artifact levelling, etc), but their existence in RvR means that you have to have a bot to compete. I do take exception to the incessant "discussion" (read: whine) over buffbots when we all know nothing will ever change about them.

 

[Iceflower]

>I do take exception to the incessant "discussion" (read: whine) over buffbots when we all know nothing will ever change about them.

But you still waste your time reading threads and posting anti intellectual posts there anyway, there is something deep inside your mind you need to address Belomar

 

[Iceflower]

Dorin,

>I do have a BB, i never ever regreted that i'm paying 2 accounts instead of 1.

The interesting point here from a marketing perspective is if you would have bought Daoc in the first place. Lets face it the information you had available at the purchasing point would be more a price comparison between Daoc and other MMORPGs. And if it was labeled as "you need two copies to play properly" and you compared that entry fee to the competition. Would you have walked over to the cashier with the boxes? Unfortunately we will never know as you today know way more about the game than when you were a pure noob at Daoc lore and therefore cant answer the question. Designing the game from the buffed player view actually implies that the long run effect was in the desingers mind when making Daoc. Manipulation on a high level in other words. Brilliant marketing strategy actually to ensure you wouldnt die the soot death in the shadow of EQ.

 

[Gorrion]

Dorin,

>I do have a BB, i never ever regreted that i'm paying 2 accounts instead of 1.

The interesting point here from a marketing perspective is if you would have bought Daoc in the first place. Lets face it the information you had available at the purchasing point would be more a price comparison between Daoc and other MMORPGs. And if it was labeled as "you need two copies to play properly" and you compared that entry fee to the competition. Would you have walked over to the cashier with the boxes? Unfortunately we will never know as you today know way more about the game than when you were a pure noob at Daoc lore and therefore cant answer the question. Designing the game from the buffed player view actually implies that the long run effect was in the desingers mind when making Daoc. Manipulation on a high level in other words. Brilliant marketing strategy actually to ensure you wouldnt die the soot death in the shadow of EQ.

So Status so far is:
We have agreed that Buffbot's are a very damaging factor to the rvr game-play in Dark Age of Camelot, and probally is the biggest win or lose factor in the game.
It can also be agreed then that Mythic's intention from the beginning of Daoc was that buffclasses sould be a "Remote Artifact" for those who would "pay"
and ofc was added some offencives that are very usefull in group rvr.
agreed is also the Mythic devoleped a product that does not work unless you buy two of them, althoug this is not noted anywhere.
I would state that the marketing might be on the edge if not illigal, and the costumor's delibirately have been manipulated.
its almost like buying a car, and when delivered there is no engine in it, . . . oops did we not mention you had to buy that 2nd hand.

 

[Succi]

start playing camlann...everybody kills your buffbot there so there is no point in having one

only if your shit at hiding em =]

 

[NetNifty]

So Status so far is:
We have agreed that Buffbot's are a very damaging factor to the rvr game-play in Dark Age of Camelot, and probally is the biggest win or lose factor in the game.
It can also be agreed then that Mythic's intention from the beginning of Daoc was that buffclasses sould be a "Remote Artifact" for those who would "pay"
and ofc was added some offencives that are very usefull in group rvr.
agreed is also the Mythic devoleped a product that does not work unless you buy two of them, althoug this is not noted anywhere.
I would state that the marketing might be on the edge if not illigal, and the costumor's delibirately have been manipulated.
its almost like buying a car, and when delivered there is no engine in it, . . . oops did we not mention you had to buy that 2nd hand.

Your argument is flawed - you can still play DAoC without 2 accounts, but a car will not work at all without an engine. Mythic and GOA have done very little to make it better to use a bot in the last 3 years (only things i can think of is 2 instances allowed and /clientsleep which is coming soon, and possibly minimum of 2 in a boat in ToA). The only thing they are guilty of is not preventing bot use.

The marketing is nowhere near illegal because you get what you pay for - you buy the game which allows you to access the servers and play the game - the "requiring a bot to compete" is caused by the players, not Mythic or GOA.

A better car analogy (sp?) would be you pay to enter a race (DAoC) meeting the minimum requirements (buying the game), but everybody else has faster engine (buffs) or better tyres etc (equipment), but are within the limits (CoC or EULA) of the race (DAoC).

 

[dapprman]

Old whine, and holds no interest anymore since we all know nothing will change.

Having a buffbot was never against the CoC, you dimwit, it is only a fashionable thing to say for the whiners (i.e. along the lines of "the good ole days").

I'm sure it was, however if I am wrong, then I stand corrected.

BTW you do not know me, we have never met, you know not what I do, how old I am, what my income is, so please do not accuse me of being a dimwit (though I did come close to drinking from the cup of management about 4-5 years ago).

 

[dapprman]

You have always been a no-brain Belomar, you dont have to remind us :kissit:
If anyone is dimwitted, its the players who have had seen the need to buy a 2nd account to play daoc.
The word "whine" will always be used by those who can see the point in a topic, but wont have to deal with it in a adult discussion, so if you have nothing else to say in the matter i suggest you crawl back to you'r playground.

Thanks Gorrion.

 

[Gorrion]

Your argument is flawed - you can still play DAoC without 2 accounts, but a car will not work at all without an engine. Mythic and GOA have done very little to make it better to use a bot in the last 3 years (only things i can think of is 2 instances allowed and /clientsleep which is coming soon, and possibly minimum of 2 in a boat in ToA). The only thing they are guilty of is not preventing bot use.

The marketing is nowhere near illegal because you get what you pay for - you buy the game which allows you to access the servers and play the game - the "requiring a bot to compete" is caused by the players, not Mythic or GOA.

A better car analogy (sp?) would be you pay to enter a race (DAoC) meeting the minimum requirements (buying the game), but everybody else has faster engine (buffs) or better tyres etc (equipment), but are within the limits (CoC or EULA) of the race (DAoC).

I see no flaw in my aguments at all, yes i can log into Daoc with my account but if i want to have a fair fight there are no where to get it, you can look into you frontier, look is the only thing actually, coz you have no chance against buffbot players. so it is actually like having a car without a engine.
Mythic and Goa "if the latter have any say in this" should simply put range on buffs and make them group required, and everything would be "normal" as intended.

The marketing might not be illigal, but VERY MUCH against any good moral!

You bettter car analogy just dont hold water, in competitions there are limits to what you may and may not use, you cant put a rocket on the roof of you'r car to gain speed, just aswell as you should no be able to use a buffbot to have 200 - 300 better prime stast and 500+ hp.

 

[NetNifty]

I see no flaw in my aguments at all, yes i can log into Daoc with my account but if i want to have a fair fight there are no where to get it, you can look into you frontier, look is the only thing actually, coz you have no chance against buffbot players. so it is actually like having a car without a engine.
Mythic and Goa "if the latter have any say in this" should simply put range on buffs and make them group required, and everything would be "normal" as intended.

The marketing might not be illigal, but VERY MUCH against any good moral!

You bettter car analogy just dont hold water, in competitions there are limits to what you may and may not use, you cant put a rocket on the roof of you'r car to gain speed, just aswell as you should no be able to use a buffbot to have 200 - 300 better prime stast and 500+ hp.

You definatly have a chance against buffbotted players while unbuffed, only a few weeks ago I killed a rr3 or so fully buffed ranger with my freshly levelled and unbuffed infiltrator at rr1. My buffed necro dies to unbuffed casters all the time. My unbuffed s/s armsman killed a botted RR7 NS at RR3L7 (although I had to use IP). You have a BD and i'm sure you have a decent chance against almost any botted class even while unbuffed, so your argument doesnt "hold water".

Yes in competitons there are limits, in the DAoC CoC or EULA there are limits too - like you can't use radar or speedhacks. There is a limit on buffs too - the formula for hard buff caps is 1.5x lvl for base and the same for specs (or says that on www.camelot-seer.com anyway), so assuming you are level 50 the most you can have is +150 - also some stats have hard caps, like any quickness above 250 makes no difference. No idea if theres a cap for hp or what it is.

 

[spook]

it's a game, it should be fun. If it's not, you should quit

Now you'd most likely like to say:

"But I like the game! Why should I leave because of a silly thing like buffbots?! It's THEM causing the imbalances, not me!"

And that's very true, but that's how it is right now. Keep in mind though, that lots of players have lobbied for getting range on buffs, or just getting Mythic to look at the issue. Nothing has happened, and I doubt that something WILL happen as long as they still get full payment for your second, third and fourth account As formerly stated, this is the best thought out thing since velcro.

Also, I doubt Mythic could downgrade buffs (if they'd try fix the problem that way) without having to change a lot of the mobs behaviors, strengths etc. Yes, most encounters are still doable, but would require quite a bit more effort and would then be quite a bit more difficult than today. And let's face it, most of us would prefer to keep PvE at a doable level.

 

[Thorwyn]

The thing is, players with multiple accounts (and 2 pc´s, lan, or one pc that can handle 2 accounts) will always have an edge over players who don´t. Second account can level your toons (necro), you can kill harder mobs (healer), you can travel faster (speedbot). There will never be a state of equilibrium unless you find a way to prevent people from playing more than 1 account and that´s impossible. And even when you´re on equal grounds (lets assume you´re in your personal heaven and nobody uses bots anymore) there will always be a factor that´s giving the edge over the other player. Bad connection/weaker PC resulting in lag or whatever, overpowered/imbalanced classes destroying the balance. The idea of a totally fair and even RvR environment is an illusion.
You can play unbuffed, even as a stealther. You just need to adopt your playstyle.
And no, adding a range to BB´s won´t change a thing. You´d still encounter buffed people left right and middle. Don´t think that people are so unimaginative.
As I see it, you´re running a personal, determined crusade, talking about morale and marketing and Mythic forcing you to do this and that. It´s a little over the top IMO. Nobody forces you to do anything. And you´re not the one to determine what´s morally acceptable and what isn´t or what´s fair and what´s not. At least not for other people. I would like to have a 4GHz PC and be on a fat T3 pipe and enjoy a lagfree 400 people RvR event. Alas I don´t. But I´m not pointing my finger at people who do.