DAoC Reinstalled: The good, the Bad and the Fenrir...

Roo Stercogburn

Resident Freddy
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
4,486
Well been playing a few weeks now since reactivating. I didn't use the 8-day thing. I seem to remember an email some time ago but I binned this. This will be old news to many players and a dreadful read for doomsayers or those without a lot of coffee to help them through it. If you feel a need to scream then hurry along to offtopic, there's some fun stuff there.

Anyway. What's hot and what's not...

New PvE content...
-------------------

I'm finding a reasonable amount of new content. A lot of it is minor variations on the same old lvl X mobs in camps - effectively same thing, different skin. Some of it is mobs that do strange and unexpected things (nearly got owned by a grey last night. Very funny and I was impressed at the change. More of this type of thing please).

The Darkness Rising quest line. Best PvE thing in DAoC ever...but too short. If Mythic were testing the waters with instances and more involving quest chains I hope they remember this for WAR. This was simply the best PvE experience there has been to date in DAoC. There just wasn't enough of it.
Difficulty adjusted dungeons: two thumbs way way up.

Task dungeons: take the tedium of mob camping and put it in an instanced dungeon. Nice idea as it cuts out a lot of running around. Its good as far as it goes, but it might be interesting to take this a step further and have a variety of quests in these places. Again, can be done from a random selection of the usual suspects - escort, kill x type, retrieve x from mob y, etc, but fundamentally its good. Just needs taken a stage further for more variation. Randomise the layouts too please. Another thing would be to put in AI controlled group that needs help battling through to a specific mob or goal. (Heh have one turn on the group later on for more chaos). Actually I can think of a way to implement whodunnit type instances for some fun based on this.
Basically these levelling places are a good start.

Bonus XP for already having a lvl50. <claps approval>
Bonus XP for just about everything if your guild is busy on the frontiers. Excellent. Cash to guild when you kill mobs: awesome.
I didn't see any bonus XP for having an SM called Roo but I'm sure Mythic are already hard at work on this. I look forward to the patch notes.

Realm travel - oh sweet joy. Teleporters to many places, boat as well as horse routes for variation. Catacombs links between many dungeons. This is a lot better than it used to be. Perhaps make the skalds at the various in-realm towns able to provide a speed buff (or is this available? I wasn't too thorough checking this). I remember in a couple of SI Areas there were flying mount taxis, I think some more of this could have been done in places.
Bin the ticket system though. The interface should be streamlined so you just click and go, none of this intermediate step messing around with tickets.

If a bit more variation was wanted, then sometimes have a music class be the taxi so insted of running along on a mount you could have a skald/minstrel/bard run your char to a place. This is also a good way to have them give a running commentary on the areas to new players. Since these fellows tend to be lurking around bindstones these days thats the obvious starting point. Music classes, not players lurking around bindtsones that is ;)

Map & Warmap. Yay. This is good. Better in fact in many ways than the mapping system in WoW. It would be nice if it was zoomable and you could tuck it away in the corner of your screen rather than dominating it. If this was done it would be even better. Works in most instances. This also, is very good. It could be made a little clearer on the warmap which keeps can be teleported to. Just a quick aid and a small point. Experienced/hardcore players will know this by rote.


Needs a little work...
--------------------

Lvl4. Er, hello? Someone find a dev and administer the wet kipper of doom. Lvls1-3 tick along and then lvl4 is the same deathfest it has always been. I just don't understand it. This isn't a learning curve for new players: its a barrier. The free level thing takes care of it if you wait a day but dear god I thought the balance issues for this level would have been sorted long ago.

Pet & Mob pathing. Find the aforementioned dev and get something tactical and nuclear shaped. Mobs hiding in walls and fighting pets. For example - pets running the long way round Fensalir Faste and through walls and pulling half the mob camp. These are fundamentals that should have been fixed a long time ago. There's no excuse for still having basic programming mistakes like this in a game that is over 6 years old and sees ongoing development.

Zoning. Hrm. I realise this is a holdover from the original game but its one of the things that shows DAoC's age. Perhaps more judicious use of Gothis and channelers to cut down on zoning steps. For instance, make it possible to go straight to the throne room instance instead of having to zone into Jord, then zone into instance. Same goes for border keep gothis. One outside please that can take you straight to your capital city or home would be appreciated. I fully accept that zoning may be impossible to remove due to the original programming, but its irritation factor can be reduced.

Interface. Its getting a revamp I know, but its one of the most immediate things that shows DAoC's age. Its still better than the likes of SWG etc but needs polishing, possibly even some Mr. Muscle. Camera control especially needs some loving and access to fix any mistakes made to be easier and more intuitive. No command that exists in game should be only accessable from command strokes. Anything and everything should be accessable from one menu or another, even if you have to drill down a few levels to get to it. Target aquisition in particular needs some work as this is rather dreadful compared to other games.

Buffbots. Oh dear. Still not been properly addressed this. I notice various attempts to keep those extra accounts open while still making non buffbotted players willing to play. The fact remains that asking a customer to pay for two accounts to enjoy an equal playing experience is just plain wrong. It will never be fixed in DAoC properly especially as that extra revenue is crucial with population being down, we can only hope come WAR Mythic have learned their lesson.

-------

<Deep breath> RvR...

I can't really say much about the updated RVR content as yet. I've been out to play a few times but my gear is woefully out of date and its almost embaressing trying to fight with current setup so I've been rather focused on the PvE side of things for now. Its good to see stealthers aren't thte wtfpwn classes they used to be and that there is more variation in what people choose to play. Actually I've been turned down for groups because I don't have a buffbot or access to one. If Mythic (or GOA) are serious about getting people to reactivate I think we may have found a stumbling block for many ;)


Couple of things I'd like to see...
--------------------------------

Customisable epic armour

This is purely a personal thing. I realise many will just roll their eyes. From a roleplay point of view it would be very nice. Epic armours can be almost a class defining thing - a badge of office, a uniform, an strong visual ******d sign of what that character is. As updates come and go, its left behind. Very far behind and as such undesirable in most situations. It would be nice if epic armours could be customised for abilities or imbued with the abilities of another armour. For instance, take your old SM epic chestpiece and imbue a nice ToA armour you've had into it. Effectively all you are doing is giving the ToA armour the epic skin of the SM armour and then destroying the original armour piece. Same goes for crafted. Graft the epic SM skin onto the crafted armour and destroy the original epic piece.

This is the kind of thing a roleplayer would love ;)

New skins on housing. A little more variation in the housing market - a couple of different shapes of house at each size increment and more control of interior walls/floors. The Midgard housing espcially looks like a student's fleapit after they've just been evicted. Medieval is fine, primeval less so.

-------

Enough rambling. I've deliberately avoided class-specific issues and focused only on general gameworld/mechanics/gameplay from what I've found.

There are some very nice things in DAoC now. Despite the less than great things I've mentioned, reloading this game has overall been a very positive experience so far.
 

Takhasis

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,078
Nice to see someone enjoying it for a change :)

Good right up and very well summarised....
 

Phantomby

Loyal Freddie
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
243
Nice to see someone enjoying it for a change :)

Good right up and very well summarised....

thats "write up" but nm...english isnt everyones first language.

I think the customisation aspect of any game is very important where you are creating your own avatar. Nowadays i cant even tell people apart because certain items are so OP or popular that they are must haves, so you get everyone wielding malice axe and battler while wearing GOV (for example) and they all look like clones. Dyes help but are not the entire answer just part.
 

cHodAX

I am a FH squatter
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
19,742
Mids might actually take a few relics now that Roo is back. ;) :p :D
 

Imgormiel

Part of the furniture
Joined
Apr 18, 2004
Messages
4,372
Well been playing a few weeks now since reactivating. I didn't use the 8-day thing. I seem to remember an email some time ago but I binned this. This will be old news to many players and a dreadful read for doomsayers or those without a lot of coffee to help them through it. If you feel a need to scream then hurry along to offtopic, there's some fun stuff there.

Anyway. What's hot and what's not...

New PvE content...
-------------------

I'm finding a reasonable amount of new content. A lot of it is minor variations on the same old lvl X mobs in camps - effectively same thing, different skin. Some of it is mobs that do strange and unexpected things (nearly got owned by a grey last night. Very funny and I was impressed at the change. More of this type of thing please).

The Darkness Rising quest line. Best PvE thing in DAoC ever...but too short. If Mythic were testing the waters with instances and more involving quest chains I hope they remember this for WAR. This was simply the best PvE experience there has been to date in DAoC. There just wasn't enough of it.
Difficulty adjusted dungeons: two thumbs way way up.

Task dungeons: take the tedium of mob camping and put it in an instanced dungeon. Nice idea as it cuts out a lot of running around. Its good as far as it goes, but it might be interesting to take this a step further and have a variety of quests in these places. Again, can be done from a random selection of the usual suspects - escort, kill x type, retrieve x from mob y, etc, but fundamentally its good. Just needs taken a stage further for more variation. Randomise the layouts too please. Another thing would be to put in AI controlled group that needs help battling through to a specific mob or goal. (Heh have one turn on the group later on for more chaos). Actually I can think of a way to implement whodunnit type instances for some fun based on this.
Basically these levelling places are a good start.

Bonus XP for already having a lvl50. <claps approval>
Bonus XP for just about everything if your guild is busy on the frontiers. Excellent. Cash to guild when you kill mobs: awesome.
I didn't see any bonus XP for having an SM called Roo but I'm sure Mythic are already hard at work on this. I look forward to the patch notes.

Realm travel - oh sweet joy. Teleporters to many places, boat as well as horse routes for variation. Catacombs links between many dungeons. This is a lot better than it used to be. Perhaps make the skalds at the various in-realm towns able to provide a speed buff (or is this available? I wasn't too thorough checking this). I remember in a couple of SI Areas there were flying mount taxis, I think some more of this could have been done in places.
Bin the ticket system though. The interface should be streamlined so you just click and go, none of this intermediate step messing around with tickets.

If a bit more variation was wanted, then sometimes have a music class be the taxi so insted of running along on a mount you could have a skald/minstrel/bard run your char to a place. This is also a good way to have them give a running commentary on the areas to new players. Since these fellows tend to be lurking around bindstones these days thats the obvious starting point. Music classes, not players lurking around bindtsones that is ;)

Map & Warmap. Yay. This is good. Better in fact in many ways than the mapping system in WoW. It would be nice if it was zoomable and you could tuck it away in the corner of your screen rather than dominating it. If this was done it would be even better. Works in most instances. This also, is very good. It could be made a little clearer on the warmap which keeps can be teleported to. Just a quick aid and a small point. Experienced/hardcore players will know this by rote.


Needs a little work...
--------------------

Lvl4. Er, hello? Someone find a dev and administer the wet kipper of doom. Lvls1-3 tick along and then lvl4 is the same deathfest it has always been. I just don't understand it. This isn't a learning curve for new players: its a barrier. The free level thing takes care of it if you wait a day but dear god I thought the balance issues for this level would have been sorted long ago.

Pet & Mob pathing. Find the aforementioned dev and get something tactical and nuclear shaped. Mobs hiding in walls and fighting pets. For example - pets running the long way round Fensalir Faste and through walls and pulling half the mob camp. These are fundamentals that should have been fixed a long time ago. There's no excuse for still having basic programming mistakes like this in a game that is over 6 years old and sees ongoing development.

Zoning. Hrm. I realise this is a holdover from the original game but its one of the things that shows DAoC's age. Perhaps more judicious use of Gothis and channelers to cut down on zoning steps. For instance, make it possible to go straight to the throne room instance instead of having to zone into Jord, then zone into instance. Same goes for border keep gothis. One outside please that can take you straight to your capital city or home would be appreciated. I fully accept that zoning may be impossible to remove due to the original programming, but its irritation factor can be reduced.

Interface. Its getting a revamp I know, but its one of the most immediate things that shows DAoC's age. Its still better than the likes of SWG etc but needs polishing, possibly even some Mr. Muscle. Camera control especially needs some loving and access to fix any mistakes made to be easier and more intuitive. No command that exists in game should be only accessable from command strokes. Anything and everything should be accessable from one menu or another, even if you have to drill down a few levels to get to it. Target aquisition in particular needs some work as this is rather dreadful compared to other games.

Buffbots. Oh dear. Still not been properly addressed this. I notice various attempts to keep those extra accounts open while still making non buffbotted players willing to play. The fact remains that asking a customer to pay for two accounts to enjoy an equal playing experience is just plain wrong. It will never be fixed in DAoC properly especially as that extra revenue is crucial with population being down, we can only hope come WAR Mythic have learned their lesson.

-------

<Deep breath> RvR...

I can't really say much about the updated RVR content as yet. I've been out to play a few times but my gear is woefully out of date and its almost embaressing trying to fight with current setup so I've been rather focused on the PvE side of things for now. Its good to see stealthers aren't thte wtfpwn classes they used to be and that there is more variation in what people choose to play. Actually I've been turned down for groups because I don't have a buffbot or access to one. If Mythic (or GOA) are serious about getting people to reactivate I think we may have found a stumbling block for many ;)


Couple of things I'd like to see...
--------------------------------

Customisable epic armour

This is purely a personal thing. I realise many will just roll their eyes. From a roleplay point of view it would be very nice. Epic armours can be almost a class defining thing - a badge of office, a uniform, an strong visual ******d sign of what that character is. As updates come and go, its left behind. Very far behind and as such undesirable in most situations. It would be nice if epic armours could be customised for abilities or imbued with the abilities of another armour. For instance, take your old SM epic chestpiece and imbue a nice ToA armour you've had into it. Effectively all you are doing is giving the ToA armour the epic skin of the SM armour and then destroying the original armour piece. Same goes for crafted. Graft the epic SM skin onto the crafted armour and destroy the original epic piece.

This is the kind of thing a roleplayer would love ;)

New skins on housing. A little more variation in the housing market - a couple of different shapes of house at each size increment and more control of interior walls/floors. The Midgard housing espcially looks like a student's fleapit after they've just been evicted. Medieval is fine, primeval less so.

-------

Enough rambling. I've deliberately avoided class-specific issues and focused only on general gameworld/mechanics/gameplay from what I've found.

There are some very nice things in DAoC now. Despite the less than great things I've mentioned, reloading this game has overall been a very positive experience so far.


A nice summary of how you are finding in game play on live servers :) Have a rep from me. I'll be back in a couple of months - hopefully :s
 

Bluesky

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
2,932
I totally agree with you Roo on just about all points. Some of them are so obvious that for those of us who haven't taken a break don't even see or think of them but once pointed out you think "oh yeah that'd be handy" sort of thing :)

I urge you to send this to Mythic/GoA/whoever as its jsut about one of the most constructive posts I've seen tbh :)

PS: Its great to have you back especially at this very low population time of the game :)
 

Cylian

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
2,336
Customisable epic armour

the old Epic is out of date, no hopes there. But you can do 2nd "Epic Quest" line now, which features a more up-to-date Epic set.
Some overcaps, decent stats and reactives and of course the lovely unique textures!
Most of my alts run around in that new epic suit. Might be a bit behind a pimped-out ToA suit, but atleast it's not instant suicide* to go out into the frontiers with it.






(*no, Zergs are still unhealthy)
 

Roo Stercogburn

Resident Freddy
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
4,486
I probably wasn't very clear, apologies. I don't want the epic armour to be updated in any way. I'd like for you to be able to apply the epic armour skin to another armour item you managed to get so you could retain the look you like.

Its an idle wish purely because of the attachment I formed to the original epic armour on Roo that was as much a part of him as any of the complex (Bloodline) background story. I don't see it as a realistic wish :)
 

eksdee

FH is my second home
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
4,469
sometimes i think i'd love to start daoc again, too, then i realise it'll never be what it was for me and the thought of starting from scratch makes me go all queezy. maybe i'm just lazy :p.

glad you're enjoying it, though, roo.
 

chretien

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
1,079
Its an idle wish purely because of the attachment I formed to the original epic armour on Roo that was as much a part of him as any of the complex (Bloodline) background story. I don't see it as a realistic wish :)

That was funny, I remember Savage Conclave demanding that we hand Roo back to them and we called them illiterate trolls because they couldn't spell Oro...
 

Pirkel

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
1,888
Was good running around with you the other day Roo. You totally debuffed that poor luri to death!!!!11one

Midgard and DAoC in general just got a bit brighter again.
 

Overdriven

Dumpster Fire of The South
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
12,638
Agree with everything you posted ^^ Maybe we'll see eachother in the ML2 dungeon again at some point :p
 

Zenith

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
1,060
Rooooooo... Sweet to have back mate! :)


Out of curiosity, what happened to you and the crew back on WoW? Did you stay on Shadowmoon?
 

Roo Stercogburn

Resident Freddy
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
4,486
Thanks for the nice replies/feedback guys :)

Aye the goon squad back in WoW are all doing well. Passed on the reigns of Ancient Shadows to Nico while I take a break (returning is undecided). Running a roleplay guild on a PvP server is quite challenging, especially as we are the only roleplay guild (that I'm aware of) on that server. Its been called RP lite, which is true, but we have a good balance between a lot of MMO goals and had a pretty stable guild since before WoW was even released (we were back in beta too). As ever, its down to the quality of the people that comprise a guild that make it what it is. Hats off to the guys, they are awesome. I've submitted Ancient Shadows for WAR beta when it becomes available and a lot of the guys are very interested, being mostly ex-DAoC players themselves. They pretty much feel the same as me about endgame regarding lack of meaningful PvP in WoW and the general superiority of DAoC RvR (for all its flaws).

Going back to DAoC, for what its worth after playing for a month I decided to renew for 3 months. There is for me a lot of unexplored content, a lot of things to do and renewing old aquaintances from the many people I've missed.

...And of course the old dark gimp himself, which remains my favourite character of anything I've played for a huge number of reasons. Though stupidly behind the times regarding equipment and MLs and such I'm hoping to get him properly RvR-ready slowly while I putter around and get into trouble. I've already made progress: he's no longer dying in just 2 hits, its taking at least 3 now.
 
H

HenryVee

Guest
Welcome back to DAOC Roo. I'm only back recently myself. Another refuge from the ultimately souless WoW...

See you around :)

HenryVee
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
Roo is back?

We're Doooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooomed!
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
on buffbots - I don't think it's the single buffbot accounts they're worried about losing... but the fact that people will feel nerfed.

If you're running around pwning everything in pve because you're buffed to the tits by an enhance 50 cleric, the moment that gets removed you've been nerfed...

Nerfing (sadly) the majority of your playerbase is a bad idea :(

They tried to fix buffbots with the classic server... but moving server is a bit harsh just to get away from buffbots (plus they also removed ToA on those servers and some of us liked ToA :p)
 

xxManiacxx

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
3,042
Roo is back and I am back. Do I see another era of Midgard pwnage?
 

Xmi

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
214
Firstly welcome back Roo, I am the same, only been back a month or so and totally agree with your comments, was a good read!

on buffbots - I don't think it's the single buffbot accounts they're worried about losing... but the fact that people will feel nerfed.

Interesting slant on why they can't just remove BB's from the game.

Just a thought, and I know it wouldn't please the people that have access to buffs who enjoy playing against people that don't (which is hardly fair game anyway), but couldn't Mythic add a base-buff line to every class. While it would diminish the base-buffers roles a little, it could in reality make their role more enjoyable as they could focus on just their primary role of healing/shearing.
 

Ctuchik

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
10,460
They tried to fix buffbots with the classic server... but moving server is a bit harsh just to get away from buffbots (plus they also removed ToA on those servers and some of us liked ToA :p)


all it would take is doing the same on the ToA servers. if ppl wanted to use buffbots theres nothing to stop them. they just have to tag them along. granted it would be a tad hard for the FG's but i dont really give a dime about them ;)

i dont have a BB account, i dont have access to one, i dont care about the ppl that use them. the sooner Mythic caves in and bans the use of BB's the better.
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
I agree, and I wish they'd done it years ago - however if they do it now they will lose subscribers over it.

This isn't just about their subs money either - a lost subscriber is a person who was enjoying the game but no longer does... so to cater to your (and my) ideas of fairness you'll break the game for someone else...

If they'd nipped it in the bud...


Changes like adding in more selfbuffs or something would be good but they need to do a _big_ change to the buffs (like they redid the entire archery system I suppose) and it's a massive balance change across the whole game.

Would be good, not sure we'll see it any time soon but I guess they've shown they're not scared of change these days so you never know.
 

Azathrim

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 31, 2003
Messages
1,802
The only way they could undo the buffbot problem, would be to grant everyone the same effect as full red spec buffs, and at the same time remove all castable buffs (ie, damage add, resist buffs, etc). That would require quite a redefining of alot of classes though.
 

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