DAoC - PvE Grind?

[Jaem-]

Yes, in theory if you make yourself endure months and months and months and months of being farmed by high RRs you might eventually accumulate enough RPs to become high RR yourself. But I don't think you're going to have much fun along the way.

...

Thats the challenge tho, trying to take down those higher rr people, and along the way you gain that simular ranking in rp, win some lose some.

 

[Killswitch]

Thats the challenge tho, trying to take down those higher rr people, and along the way you gain that simular ranking in rp, win some lose some.

We've split into two seperate conversations now. I don't see PvE as a grind simply because I can appreciate that that is the way a MMORPG HAS to be. There is no point having a +37 Ogremaster's Ferris-Wheel of Endless Pwnage if every single player who plays more than 30 minutes a night can have one too.

As far as RvR goes, I do get bored of being farmed silly by opted-GGs with awesome TOA templates and ML10. That said, I have now got 4 TOA'd and ML10 characters myself and I can hold my own against most enemy players. All are low RR, but I have a couple of RR3 and an RR4 and they're all heading upwards. This is the good thing about NF in my opinion. It creates situations where low-RR players CAN compete and get RPs, although it can be slow. Nothing like winning an epic zerg-vs-zerg battle and getting 600RPs for it.

Looking forward to getting RR5 on my sorc. Once you get a few RAs, you can compete better and look for "better" fights where you can get more RPs per kill, so your RP-earning-power goes up. I enjoy RvR and look forward to getting out there and getting to it. I also enjoy PvE and try to get on big raids whenever I can. It is possible to enjoy both and do both.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

same here back when this weary eye of mine was on : the xp bar - artifacts - scrolls - drops - xp bar again - ml-raids...

my eye still hurts :[

High - RRs die just like everyone else, dont really understand whats your prob there... maybe put the same amount of effort into rvsr that you did in pve? its harder, but doable imho... or am i missing your point there

I think you are. In PvE you know your limits, you size up your opponent and take him down, job done and on to the next. In RvR, you log on, buff up or find a group (thats 10 mins gone), port to wherever the action is, die to 1fg of those high RRs, release, start again. An hour later you are none the better for your efforts, unlike in PvE. Its not always like that, just most of the time.

Like I said before, at least in PvE theres variety, in RvR tomorrow will be much like today.

 

[Fana]

Think you are wrong too, funny how DAoC survived for a year before SI then another year for TOA with little more to do than exp, again, with 32 days /played on a toon to 50 in the old days, your piss poor 200 hours is a breeze in comparison, and I have to say most players enjoyed the game more back then than they do now (give 1.42 anytime!)

Again, MMORPGs dont really have an end game, Counterstrike does. Now youre playing WOW I see, enjoy your "mindless killing of the same mobs" wont you.

Best suggestion Ive seen in ages, this "chance to drop" things is a crippler.

Your missing my point - im all for development and new toys in a mmorpg. What im not for is endless grinding to get that stuff - whats wrong with making the aquireing of new stuff fun instead of just timeconsuming? Stuff can take lots and lots of days to complete sure, ive no problem with that as long as what your doing isnt mindless repetition of the same thing (endless mobbashing). Getting to 50 in 32 days /played or 320 days /played would be perfectly fine if i had fun all the time. I dont.
Mobbashing can be fun, but it shouldnt be stretched out because the developers couldnt find anything else to fill in content in the game with.

And since you brought up WoW - No i have yet to feel like im grinding in WoW, and im level 42 already And no im not saying WoW is a superior game, wouldnt even have brought it up if you hadnt. Daoc has its strenghts just as WoW has.

 

[Killswitch]

Try it the third/fourth/fifth time. I bet everyone in DAOC had great fun levelling on Gobbos and stuff back in beta. Quests and Mob-bashing, mob-bashing and quests. What else can you do in a game? Mythic have implemented puzzles, clues and other cerebral fare in TOA, but people just complain about it. I imagine the reason for this is (like I said above) we already know how to get all the artis, the exact words to say, the best tactics. Because the Yanks get everything months ahead, there's no mystery in the game.

You can quest a lot of the way from 40-50, you can do MLs, arti-encounters, level your artis before you hit the big five-oh. Instead, people PL straight to 50 then bitch about how hard TOA is. It just doesn't make sense;

Player 1 : I don't want to just hit mobs, I want something different
Player 2 : Let's do this quest!
Player 1 : Let me just check how to do it on Warcry and set some macros up
<Quest Completed>
Player 1 : Boy that sucked. I want some fun
Player 2 : Let's go to TOA and do some artis
Player 1 : Okay...let me hit VisionofSages first
<Arti/ML done>
Player 1 : That was boring! DAOC sucks!
Me : Well DUUUHHHH!!!!!!

 

[Dorin]

Like I said before, at least in PvE theres variety, in RvR tomorrow will be much like today.

variety in pve?? you know the method to succesfully complete a pve_encounter and problem solved, using the same tactic over and over again you will be victorious.

RvsR varies alot more then a pve encounter due to your oppenents in rvsr are human beings whos movement, reaction is aint scripted, programed... In pve only you or your grp can make mistakes, which in my oppinion cant be compared to rvsr where both parties do a mistake or two now and then. This makes it alot more entertaining rather then something scripted event where you know the outcome.

About high rr gankzor... well what, i was a lvl 4 viking/mage/stalker also and somebody at mpk/apk/ligen who has rarely been invited to such grps. did i bitch about it? no... i acted instead using the "do it yourself method". Made a guild back in albion, twice in midgard which stood his ground against most of the grps out there... and being killed by them only made me, us to "work, think" even harder to beat them. At the end of the day we did, not all the time but killed the "unkillable gankgrps". Was alot more better feeling than finishing a trial in toa, getting an artifact or dinging lvl 50. my 2 cents.

 

[Killswitch]

variety in pve?? you know the method to succesfully complete a pve_encounter and problem solved, using the same tactic over and over again you will be victorious.

RvsR varies alot more then a pve encounter due to your oppenents in rvsr are human beings whos movement, reaction is aint scripted, programed... In pve only you or your grp can make mistakes, which in my oppinion cant be compared to rvsr where both parties do a mistake or two now and then. This makes it alot more entertaining rather then something scripted event where you know the outcome.

About high rr gankzor... well what, i was a lvl 4 viking/mage/stalker also and somebody at mpk/apk/ligen who has rarely been invited to such grps. did i bitch about it? no... i acted instead using the "do it yourself method". Made a guild back in albion, twice in midgard which stood his ground against most of the grps out there... and being killed by them only made me, us to "work, think" even harder to beat them. At the end of the day we did, not all the time but killed the "unkillable gankgrps". Was alot more better feeling than finishing a trial in toa, getting an artifact or dinging lvl 50. my 2 cents.

All good points, but I think a lot of Software Engineers might disagree with you. Even with a known system or known outcome, the method and the refinement can be a fun experience, even a passion with some people. A computer program only does what you tell it. That doesn't mean writing an Operating System or even an MMORPG is easy or boring.

Being the 'best' at PvE requires just as much skill, dedication, practice and motivation as being the 'best' in RvR. They're maybe just different skills. What makes killing a High-RR Shadowblade any better/more satisfying than taking out ML9.10 with 20 people or running ML3 raid in 90 minutes?

People are too blinkered. There's a game out there for everyone. Just because one person gets their rocks off ganking people in RvR, that makes the PvE element of the game worthless? PvE is a grind because people don't WANT challenges! They want fast, easy XP and every damn thing given to them on a plate. There's no challenge in playing a dual-PBAOE Taskers group in AC (or equivalent Bard+ShroomFarm(TM) Fins group).

I'm starting to get that "banging my head on a wall" feeling here. Some people want to RvR and that's great. Some want to do PvE and that's also great. What pisses me off is people who want everything for no effort and who want to have everything the hardcore players have because "It's not fair! Waaah! Waaah!"

Jeez...

EDIT - That wasn't a go at Dorin btw. He's showing just the right attitude. He wanted to be good at RvR so he made a guild and did it. And I'm sure they worked hard, did TOA and all that to make sure they could compete. As it should be

 

[Golena]

I think what a lot of people miss is that when complaining that they can't compete with ml10/rr10 fully toa'ed characters because they don't have the time to get there is that for most of those fights if you swapped characters and they played your rr1 just dinged 50 character and you played their rr10 character they would beat you anyway.

Gear/ML's/RR's does make a difference yes. But just like in anything in life you can't expect to be able to beat someone who has been practicing something for 2 years after 5 minutes.

Most people complaining about the leveling grind are people who are leveling up their 3rd or 4th character. Guess what... the 3rd time you do something it's not that interesting. Most of these people are normally only leveling up the character to "get to 50 and rvr". That's a double hitter. If your more interested in seeing that next bubble fill up than having fun of course it's gonna be boring. You probably didn't group that infil cos he would slow down your rate of gaining exp, doing that quest, well that's slower than leveling isn't it!

WOW doesn't seem like a grind because it's new... you don't know what's over that next hill, you don't know what's coming next on the quest. Try leveling your 4th character in WOW up then tell me it isn't a grind.

As for TOA being a grind I agree with killswitch. If you say ooh I have to get this done in 1 week then I can get back to rvr then yes it will be dull as crap. If you take the time to explore, make friends as you do it then it can be alot of fun. With modern raid leaders the I am a casual player and can't do it isn't really true anymore either. No ML raid should take more than 2 hours if run correctly with a zerg. Most can be done with around 2 properly set up fg's although it might take longer. The reason most people complain is because they want to log on pwonz then log off all in 10 mins. There's games that let you do that.. DAOC isn't one of them. If you put in the time you get rewarded. Personally I like that in a game, if I spend 3 hours trying to achieve something then I like the fact that when I log in tommorow I can get the benefit from it.

Go out to have fun and you'll probably have fun! Go out and decide you must get 4 levels tonight cos this is BORING and it will probably be boring!

If the post above appeared rather long and ranty, blame it on the crafting grind.. Now that's something they COULD improve!

 

[Saggy]

Wrong;

MMORPG = never ending adventure, exporing new things, adding new content, finding different ways to acomplish goals, expanding the imagination, role playing (thats what the RP in MMORPG is, some dont seem to know that) etc etc

DAoC, UO, AC2, WOW all have expansions, to make them ever larger in ALL aspects, RvR changed with NF and TOA, PvE changed in SI, TOA and Catacombes, and Mythic and all the other companies are always looking towards the next addon or extentions.

Yes, MMORPGs are a neverending adventure and dinging lvl50 in DAoC is just a start - everything you decide to do after that is endgame in my book.

CounterStrike = Log on, kill, log off.

Yes, and therefore there is no "startgame" or "endgame". Or is logging in the startgame and logging out the endgame? Surely the same logic can be used in DAoC too then?

Only if ToA would have brought RA-like abilities for PvE instead of MAs (which of ~50% doesn't even work in PvE...) for RvR I believe DAoC would be way better, imo.

 

[Killswitch]

If the post above appeared rather long and ranty, blame it on the crafting grind.. Now that's something they COULD improve!

This thread = Teh FH Grind imo

 

[Thorwyn]

I think the problem is - at least partially - that people seem to have different expectations of a game and the root of all evil is, that DAOC is both, a PvE and a PvP game. This might sound strange, but I think it´s true. The flexibility to play a game under 2 different aspects, which is so unique amongst all RPG`s out there, is causing the tension. The RvR player will always consider PvE as boring and will try to get through with it (dinging 50, getting ML´s, getting drops etc.) as fast as he can. The PvE player will ignore the RvR aspect. Both are playing on the same server, under the same rules and obstacles. And both sides are pulling on their end of the rope, trying to change the game more towards their side.
If you take a look at a pure PvE MMORPG like Everquest, you won´t find many players who´re complaining about "the level grind". Simply because that´s all the game has to offer. (well... there is more, but basically spoken...). People there are playing the game as it´s intended, because there is just one basic path to follow. DAOC is different.
For me, the process of building up a char and equipping him with stuff is part of the game. I wouldn´t want to be able to /level 50 even if I had the opportunity. One part of the fun in DAOC is to be proud of what you´ve made, to be able to look back and say "hey, that was a long way, but I made it... yay!". It´s like solving a puzzle while other people prefer to just buy a cool poster. Or climb a mountain with your hands and feet while other people prefer to take the lift and just ski down again.