DAoC is boring+dieing, what do we need? Discuss...

[Jenkz]

Ok this is the usual waffle you find on VNboards, but as i dont like VNboards i'll post it here

Basically i have a level 50 character, with all the RAs i want at RR3L2, and now have nothing more to do bar level an alt....

Is this game just about leveling? Should it be just about mindlessly chain rolling character after character after character? I thought this game was about Realm vs Realm?

Realm vs Realm: Keep takes are non existent apart from for claiming DF, a guild outing, or the once a blue moon relic raid. Majority of RvR, at least on prydwen, is all farming RPs in emain - so yawn.

DAoC really needs a fun and exciting end-game for the level 50s - this should be RvR, NOT RP farming. There are many, many people i have known for 6 months now leaving prydwen since their subscription has come to, or is coming to an end. They've leveled to 50, they've got all their RAs, what more is there to do? I'm losing interest in my level 50 character and ive only been 50 for a month or so - something really needs to be done to make this game fun and exciting for 50s.

Trade is not really an option for the individual apart from tailoring. The costs involved just simply cannot be self funded up to worthwhile levels. Not to mention trade is just utterly boring.

How does everyone else view the endgame? What do you want, and what could make the game better? I have a few ideas outlined below:

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1. Make keeps have more purpose - more reason to take and more reason to claim. eg:

- Each keep could have a resist bonus for your guild (and a lesser for your alliance) when claimed. Each of the realms 6 keeps (excluding the merchant keeps) would have a different magic resist associated with it.

- Increase the difficulty of the guard patrols, people should not be able to solo the patrols.

- Extend the keep "region" to a much larger area (similar to the regions shown on the herald for keeps) instead of just inside the keep itself. This would allow people to obtain the keep defence bonuses and other benefits in a wider area of the frontier.

- Increase the guild realm points earnt for a guild per hour if they have people inside the (possibly extended) keep region.

2. Make keep takes more fun and customisable. eg:

- Allow members of a guild claimed keep to purchase "special" (better) guards with their own personal bounty points. Eg. a "Master Wizard BP Stone" could be purchased, and placed in a guild claimed keep to aid the defence. Obviously the master wizard wouldnt be too strong, say redcon to 50.

- Upgraded guards could be given better abilites like stealth, detect hidden, procs etc.

- Make keeps more than just an empty stone wall. Only the merchant keeps are of any use. Each (or at least more) keeps could have a small town of merchants to the side, or inside, which are only usable by the realm who is in control of that keep. eg: lower material merchants, forges, lathes, arrow/poison/weapon merchants etc.

- Better bounty point stones!

3. Make Realm Invasions possible, obviously in a sensible manner. eg:

(A thread on VNboards outlines pretty much how this could work, but they asked for a seperate server. http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=37055543&replies=125)

- Each town in a realm has upgraded guards suitable for RvR encounters.

- If a realm owns all another realms keeps, and all its own, its border keep doors maybe taken down by rams - these doors autorepair after say 12 hours so the invasion is not permanent.

- Border keeps can be breached if a strong lord is killed once the "outer" door is down. This should be a strong encounter not just a weak keep lord. Once this lord is down the inner door can be breached with rams. The lord repops after a certain time - limiting the raids time to get the doors down. Guards at the border keep and guards inside the realm will continually repop even if the border keep is breached.

- You cannot bind, or logout in the enemy realm. You will zone back to your realm upon death or logout, or when the border keep doors are autorepaired so the invasion again is not permanent.

- Players under level 10 cannot be killed similar to the PvP server.

This would SERIOUSLY increase the long term interest of higher level players, a lot of work should be involved in getting inside the realm in the first place, but it allows the whole RvR idea to really come true, instead of some clinically controlled frontier with empty keeps...

This should not be added to another server, but to the main servers.

4. Get decoratable and customable guild (or player) housing in the game.

5. Some form of indivual trades should be considered. Trade really needs to be looked into.

6. Stop adding pointless PvE content but concentrate on making the endgame for all players more fun.

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A lot really needs to be done to DAoC to make it less shallow. It's fun for around 6 months when you have a level 50, a couple of level 30s, and some tradeskills under your belt, but then you realise what else really is there?

New additions like the new RvR dungeons, Shrouded Isles for more PvE, really are not going to increase the interest of level 50 players. RvR is what this game is about - and at the current time it is all about realm point farming - another form of XPing to rake in the monthly subscriptions.

Mythic really would be better making dark age of camelot a fun RvR game with loyal players who enjoy the game. Currently its an XP game where the majority of its players may, or probably will, after they are bored of their second or third character.

Appologies for the long post, i just wondered how many other people felt the same.

 

[Brannor McThife]

<sighs>

There are times that I feel very much like you do. Time when I look around my desk and think, hmm, what to play now. I've played all three realms. Got one character to L50. And what is there left for me?

Well, I've been on so many keep raids I'm sick of them.

I've been on a few relic raids, and those are pretty much just as boring to me.

Skirmishing in the frontier is mainly zerging.

Hmm...
Things I haven't done:
Killed all the WoWs (doable easily in one night with guild/alliance)
Killed legion (doable in one night with alliance)
killed the dragon (doable in one night with alliances)

Um... is that it?

Oh wait...events...yes...events...
Hey, I'll still run out there and bash some Albs or Hibs, but yes, I sometimes wonder if I haven't reached the end of the game.

-G

 

[old.XanateA]

PvP Server^^

 

[aethtemplar]

Reasons to keep playing :

1. Friends

2. Roleplaying

3. Killing Glauthrong. I just never tire of it....

 

[=Shazzy=]

Well we will have the pvp server soon, in a few weeks if i'm not mistaken... if i was told correctly about the release of the 1.51/1.52 patch.

Not to mention in 1.53 new dungeon to each realm is getting added, new realm ablilities getting added, Paladins get Endrance regen and so do Shamans.

Mythic have been saying for months about getting guild housing done, but i've lost count on how many times they've said it and have no come up with the goods.

All i can say is play the game until March, then cancal your account and get ready for SWG. March is the Europe release date, well thats what i was told by someone today. But i know most people will be getting it imported from the US, i know i will.

Then you have more games coming out World Craft Worlds, i think Final Fantasy 11 is still in the making but it looks very nice, and there are some others.

What Mythic is trying to do is rush everything to get the expansion released before these new Online games get released, because they now they will be losing 50% to 75% of there players to new games and because they have shown no sign of making the game better.

I will be one of many that will be giving Mythic the finger once StarWars Galaxies is released in the US..

 

[slapmesilly..]

Sounds quite good (the RI server idea)

You have the ability to annoy others by invading their realm, and take them by suprise, instead of always fighting at pre-determined places (Emain etc.), so you get this extra "MUHAHAHA gotcha!!" feeling when you see the look on an albs face and slaughter him.

And you won't have the 1337 d00d community...

As som other guy on IGN said, they should've made the game like this from the start!!

 

[old.Plebo]

Hopefully, when the new graphics engine is rolled out then we won't get such horrific slowdown in big RvR battles. If it all runs nice and smooth then that should keep you lvl50 interested for another week or so.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Realm invasions are all very nice until you have a group of 50s sitting at prydwen bridge camping the bindstones...

if you want that - go play PvP.

the first two points about giving RvR a bit more point to it are very valid and are good suggestions

in 1.53 you get cash for killing keep guards... and if you own a keep you get warnings when one of your guards is killed - so I see more keep taking/defending going on (reason to take them is cash - reason to defend them is RP and fun )

 

[Turamber]

I don't know what you mean about realm point farming -- I thought that was just dueling that fell into that category.

RvR is what you choose to make of it. You don't *have* to follow the zerg around --- although I do find that quite fun from time to time.

Taking a defended keep, or defending a keep against attackers, are both a lot of fun ... but do require some teamwork and organisation. But the amount of fun does certainly outweigh the work involved.

A lot of people start RvR for the first time at level 50 and seem to expect to know everything about it ... but it's a whole new game. The real test of whether you know your character or not is in RvR, how you use your skills/abilities to help your group - and how you use them to hurt the enemy.

Give it time. I can truthfully say that RvR is the most enjoyable part of the game to me now, and that's a surprise 'cos I truly hated it when I was levelling.

In fact I'm extremely frustrated at the moment, having to travel a lot for work this week - and having a power cut in my road last night - I've not been able to play very much. But RR4 tonight or bust...

 

[Lanceloc]

You havent finished the game until you're at realm rank 10

Personally I'm quite happy with the game as it is. Its the closest thing yet to fullfilling my fantasy of being a knight.

I have stacks of other games but the others are just shallow to me compared to DAOC, probably because they arent massively multplayer.

I can't wait for Shrouded Isles and I'll at least be here for another 6 months.

 

[old.Revz]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife
Things I haven't done...

Welcome to the world of a lot of people After Legion turned out to be such a gimp, easy encounter the game basically lost a lot of meaning because there was nothing worth doing. Having killed the dragon recently thanks to Gombur there is literally no challenge left in Albion for me. I have a lot of screenshots and fond memories but they didn't stop me from cancelling my account last week.

I suspect you will see a lot of people leaving soon (as is already happening) because the six month account option runs out on October 3rd if you took it up directly after the free month of retail. This was the case for me, Pyro and loads of other people I know; none of whom will be carrying on.

The PvP server does not interest me in the slightest I'm afraid Having steered the guild to over 15 million RP (now over 20 million since I went inactive) I'm a bit sick of killing players. There is a lot of new blood going in but it tends to be players who started later and haven't gotten quite so tired of things yet. Most of the people I know in game who started on the first day and got level 50 reasonably early on are leaving as well. I suspect there will be a general turn over of people like this for a long time to come, if you play it hard this game has just under 6 months worth of content in it I reckon.

It says a lot that I'm going back to EQ I suppose

 

[old.Noita]

I must admit I have always thought that the end game (post 50) would be a bit boring. This is one of the reasons I have taken soooo loooong to get there. I have tried out MANY other characters in all the other realms... getting most of them into their 30s...

Ive helped kill the Dragon, Ive helped Kill Legion 2 (or is it 3 times? Cant remember, its more than once for sure), killed Princes Galore, The Princess, Named Lords and Lower Royalty, killed Glacier Giant on a guild hunt and killed all WoWs several times each with Eye of Odin, sometimes several times each in one hunt! Have been on successful and non successful Relic Raids even helped lead and organise a successful one

Bored? Nah! Not really...I'm looking forward to SI, the new dungeons in 1.53, and of course Spellcrafting and Alchemy. I also have a Thane alt I am really looking forward to getting to 50 as well. My main is going to be a Spellcrafter and my alt will be an Alchemist by the way

However, with the game being what it is (not very well designed, not very well planned, not very well thought out, not very well executed and not developed as well as it could be) I can very well understand the boredom and frustration that some who have got to 50 feel when they have their Epic Armour and look about asking themselves the question..."What now?"

I think that the changes coming in to the combat system and changes to classes in 1.52 and 1.53 will dramatically alter the game for many. They will (hopefully) make RvR more fun for many more people, there will be more RvR areas therefore spreading all our forces thinner on the ground hopefully this will help to dilute the various zergs.

I do disagree however that this game is all about RvR... it isnt... it is as much about PvE as it is about PvP... you cannot do the latter without having done at least some of the former after all. I am sure that there are many players in all realms who arent terribly interested in RvR just as there are players who live for PvP.

Perhaps at level 50 people could use their status to organise hunts in Malmohus or Raumarik for their level 40-45 guildmates and do some powerlevelling... it would help the players being PL'd, would make their guilds stronger and ultimately make the realm stronger. Farming items too for guildies is also a good thing to do, and if your guildies are well kitted out, give the items to guild crafters to salvage so they can get to higher levels as well. RvR isnt just about killing the enemy its about helping to make your realm as strong as you possibly can.

Jenkz: Some of your ideas are great, others just so impractical that they could never work, the list is too long for me to give more of an opinion than that really... but to take housing and the trade thing as 2 examples... well... we all know how long Mythic have been promising housing...and we are all still waiting for it to happen, and I feel we will have to wait a good while longer again.

On the subject of Trade Skilling: I think that one thing that they could have done (possibly too late now) would have been to tie in trade skilling with PvE much more... ie drops from mobs could have been useful to tradskills like being able to craft things from the various pelts/skins/carapaces etc that drop... and yes I realise that this edges towards the EQ trade skill system, but... that system works well so why not learn from it? Then hunting would be much more worthwhile and less of an XP grind... ie sell the drop or make something from it which sells for a bit more... having some spells such as the ever contentious AoE mezzes require components, the higher level the spell the higher quality component necessary.

Personally...Im quite happy with the game as it stands... sure many things could have been done better/differently but they werent so we have to live with it. Im going to give SI about 3 months and see then how I feel about things, I will be looking at SWG (cos my other half wants to be a wookie FFS! ) and I will be looking at World of Warcraft, but if www.cityofheroes.com is half as good as it looks and half as well thought out/planned/designed as they claim it is then it will be adios DAoC from me too.

Toodle Pip

 

[galdora]

Originally posted by aethtemplar
Reasons to keep playing :

1. Friends

Strongly agree. I have attempted to leave, but the sense of loss pulls me back. I tried hard to do it this week, but the emptiness I felt was too much. I managed about 3 hours

The lack of a real alternative is the other problem.

Will prolly try Neocron (finally got the beta working, only a few days to go tho) and will definately play SWG. But the retails of these are still a way off.

Thanks Jenkz for taking the time to produce such a detailed post.

I fully agree with the problems you describe. Got a lvl50 and leveling alts is nice with good friends, but just dull otherwise.

Never really enjoyed RvR that much, maybe I need more experience or am just crap at it

Hunts in Rauma and DF are still fun for me tho with a good group of guildies.

Shrouded Isles and the RvR Dungeon will be interesting to explore for a while.

The new "NEW OBJECT CREATION SYSTEM" will be interesting and will lead to a new era of:

"ITAMZ ME IS GRAY ITAMZ ITAMZ"

Crafting is not for me. But a big well done to those who do it. I admire your patience.

But you are right, there is nothing really to keep people with 50s interested for long.

All this is a shame. Because the game has been wonderful while it has kept my interest. I guess I'll still be here for a while yet. I just get a little frustrated at times, but its the great people and the lack of an alternative that are keeping me here for now.

 

[old.job]

If your bored of DAOC your bored of life

Battlegrounds!!!!!

For me the game needs more environment interaction, the towns are empty sterile places, it can be like walking into ghost town when there aren't many players online.
These are all things Mythic are looking into, if you've played Shenmue on the Dreamcast or whatever, you will know how well it can be done and it increases the feeling of being part of a community.
Of course the problem with lvl 50 is you walk most of the world outside of RVR almost in 'GOD' mode, with none of the excitement and fear you get when pve'in at lvl 10.

 

[old.Crib]

Take a keep tonight with friends and see how long you can keep it. Post results after

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by old.Crib
Take a keep tonight with friends and see how long you can keep it. Post results after

:sleeping:
After about ypur 50th keep take you get pretty bored of bashing doors, sitting inside and seeing no one turn up for an hour.

 

[old.Crib]

Originally posted by Dannyn

:sleeping:
After about ypur 50th keep take you get pretty bored of bashing doors, sitting inside and seeing no one turn up for an hour.

For those who haven`t give it a go. For those who have close the door after you leave

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Originally posted by old.Revz




It says a lot that I'm going back to EQ I suppose

It fits your powergaming needs?
Higher level cap?
Plane raids?
Taking down a god?

It says alot that EQ2 looks alot like DAoC...



Having played EQ, I must say: DAoC beats it a hundredfold funwise (except for the tradeskills and the much (!) better quests).

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by old.Crib


For those who haven`t give it a go. For those who have close the door after you leave

It's hardly a solution to the problem the thread was posing though... Namely, that level 50s who have done keep raids etc. are bored.

 

[old.Crib]

"It is with great pleasure that I tell you that we have now received confirmation from Vivendi Universal that they will ship DAoC on October 9th 2001. "

Lets not forget this game is still under a year old. A year spent stabilizing the game and "trying to balance" things. I believe now they have obtained a decent platform (framerate hopefully will be dealt with in SI). We will start to see more content added.

However no game company going can keep a pure powergamer forever happy ;( Its the downfall of a successful game.

 

[old.Crib]

Originally posted by Dannyn

It's hardly a solution to the problem the thread was posing though... Namely, that level 50s who have done keep raids etc. are bored.

I agree, but the developement of SI is.

 

[old.Crib]

Heres another one.

Get two keep taking size groups together. Start in camelot. One group head to middie, one group head to hibbie. First group to claim a keep wins.

Done this 50 times?

Ok heres another.........

See what I`m getting at? There has got to be things to do to keep you entatained until the release of SI`s.

 

[Whoodoo_RD]

With the 6 month deal up and coming, think Ill stay anyway, tbh this game aint just about level 50, RR10, the Dragon etc, but also about the community spirit. My m8s are here both RL and ppl ive met in game. And we all make new m8s daily.

Some cracking ideas there tho, but what i think is needed is a lil more interaction with the NPCs, some more story lines, and perhaps quests and campaigns controled not by a bunch of subroutines and algorythems (s?), but by real ppl, perhaps by players that write their own story lines, and GOA could bring them to life.

RvR has been exciting, but i imagine after about RR4, it can get a lil dull. PvE with an alt can get a lil same ol same too, after all you know what mobs are where, how to kill task etc.

The random drop thing is gonna be kinda good, but still nto enough.

The campaigns they been running are slow and to me a lil dull with no prize in sight. We completed the first part and got squat for our troubles, not even a "well done you did it" message. Now we find out we did ok, but the next part wasnt ready, so now we are bored with that idea too.

Sommit random or player created is whats needed IMO. As well as something a lil more personal, owning horses, houses, etc.

Also, crafting starts to get a lil sucky after about 500, takes way too long to acheive the next level, so what about making custom items.

Anyway, my ramble would go on for hours, but so far i agree with all said here.

 

[Brannor McThife]

Aethelstan. Dream on gimp. Still waiting to catch you solo, unbuffed. But you always seem to have Graham holding your hand... does Myste know about this???

Gideon? You really leaving? What about the rest of SotL?

-G

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Our guild makes a strong point of doing different things from time to time. We like to do events for our own peeps and stuff.
Examples:

Previously...
Midgard Olympics
Siege weapon training at the Tomtes (using catapult)
Competitions: stupid stuff that wins prizes for peeps that submit entries on our forums, e.g. Lurikeen Cooking Competition.

Upcoming...
Fedaykin Barbeque is coming up and will be a scream.
We've got a roleplaying campaign we will be continuing soon now that peeps are all done with summer holidays.
We have something coming up in-game regarding the infamous Fedaykin Guild Fridge too.

We like to do a lot of hunts and raids together and WoWs have been on the menu previously. Its easy to forget there is a lot of places in the large gameworld that peeps don't visit often eg Mokkur out in Vanern, Glacier Giant, etc. All add variation and can be fun.

Basically, anyone can come up with stuff if they set their minds to it. The game is flexible enough to allow you to do a lot of things you want to.

Just add imagination, stir vigorously.

 

[rynnor]

Having fun with your mates is the thing that keeps ya coming back even after you get jaded with your level 50.

I have made some great new friends on DAOC and brought a load from EQ with me. Its still a pleasure to group up n kill the bad guys with em

No doubt the level caps will rise in the future but really the levels are kind of irrelevant if your having fun.

 

[Jupitus]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife
Aethelstan. Dream on gimp. Still waiting to catch you solo, unbuffed. But you always seem to have Graham holding your hand... does Myste know about this???

Gideon? You really leaving? What about the rest of SotL?

-G

Check http://forums.barrysworld.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32842 .... but I reckon SotL recruitment list is still pretty healthy

... and as for a flame, was that it? If so it was even more pathetic than 2 Fridays ago!!

 

[trigali]

Jenkz I think yours is an excellent post.

I am not sure about your Realm Invasion proposition but for sure, your suggestions on the keeps are excellent:

To have an interest in raiding this keep rather than that one, for there is something of interest inside (merchants with unique products, maybe) is a great idea, as well as increasing the difficulty in taking the keeps in the first place. As it is now, an undefended keep takes a group of 8 with rams what... 5 minutes ? That is not enough.

You should send these thoughts to Sanya at Mythic, if you haven't already (or if you haven't taken those ideas out of the US boards )

Great suggestions !

 

[old.Kladen]

they should put in housing (think they still are) and alliances could make their own town and hire NPC merchants,healers. should make the map larger.

event team should work on each realm every day or 2 days and keep a nice story into the game, some small events with nice unique rewards.

when taking a keep in frontier you should get more than just a keep and put something at the keep so it makes people defend em, like a small dungeon underneath em or a gambling hut, and entertaining games you could play there. (fighting/training pit).

and guild claimed keeps can get special extras maybe.

basically just put into the game something that makes it have more of a aim instead of just getting RP/XP and ummm well thats about it.

 

[old.Aethelstan]

Simple way of encouraging a bit more structured RvR would be to award significant realm points for killing keep Lords (make a Lord worth 10,000 RP, for example (not guards, as then people would just sit at the bottom of the hill farming patrols). That would encourage takes. Then, to encourage defences, provide double normal RP to players who kill enemy players within a certain radius of the keep. Already there's something like this when Guilds claim a keep. But the radius of the keep is too narrow, and it does nothing to encourage non-guildmates from defending. Expand it to include the whole hill, and both attackers and defenders then know that it's worth their while making the effort.