Cost of MP overhaul

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Talifer

Guest
OK we all know how it works at the moment, you place your masterpiece order with a crafter, they go away and charge you for every retry they make getting to 100%

They don't charge profit because they sell all the 99%s off afterwards.

What does this mean, well basically it means the person ordering the masterpiece is paying for everyone elses retries. Crafters sell the 99%s at ludicrous prices, from 70g to 170g BELOW cost value of the item.

So on average the cost of a MP Sabre/Long Dirk/Jambiya etc.., is 2.752 plat (If the crafter charges actual cost, that's 208g base, 52g per retry)

I propose a new scheme of MP payment

The client pays for retries as per usual, BUT when the crafter makes a 99%, he gives the client two FREE retries.

On average a MP takes 50 retries, usually a client pays for all 50, with this scheme the client will only pay for ~33 retries.

This brings the cost of the average MP down from 2.752 plat, to 1.904 plat, a saving of ~850g

Thoughts?

Talifer
 
F

Flimgoblin

Guest
the problem is: what if noone wants a 99% weapon?

Everyone is barking for them at the moment... but I think the numbers are dropping.

It'll soon get to replacement level (which on 99% weapons is very very slow) or people wanting to upgrade to 100%.

A 99% discount is _only_ valid as long as there is a market for them.
 
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Pin

Guest
This is exactly the pricing scheme I used to run at, except I gave the customer 3 free retries for each 99 I made, which surely made the MP order cheaper, but also meant that I had to charge more for the 99s I then had to sell, which would be some 50% more expensive than other crafters were flogging their 'reject' 99%s (as they really don't care what the 99s go for).

So after about 2 weeks of this I had 40+ 99% weapons that I couldn't sell at a price that I would break even on, so I stopped doing this.

So, I consider this was a good idea, which is fine if there aren't too many other crafters trying to sell their gear, but flawed in practice (there's now about 20 weaponsmiths at 1k+ and the market is pretty flooded).

So I'll join the herd and craft mostly for MPs at cost, flogging the 99s I get at a loss. Sad, but unavoidable.
 
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Pin

Guest
Originally posted by Fingoniel

It'll soon get to replacement level (which on 99% weapons is very very slow) or people wanting to upgrade to 100%.

There is virtually no replacing of 99s. They do not wear out in a feasable amount of time - I used the same 99% gladius for roughly 5 months RvR and it's still over 100% dur, the only reason I've stopped using it is to replace with a 100% guarded rapier.


They'll only be replaced now if someone wants a 100%, or they need to switch around their spellcrafting stats after getting new items, or try a different proc. So this is more demand than there has been previously, but there's also 10 times as many crafters trying to sell their gear.
 
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old.Ramas

Guest
This brings the cost of the average MP down from 2.752 plat, to 1.904 plat, a saving of ~850g

Just a quick point.

This doesn't bring down the *cost* of an MP, it brings down the *price* of a MP. Subtle but important difference. ;)

Remember, crafters have limited funds too, and I know of practically none that have yet made back the 15 plat investment in LGM.
 
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Draylor

Guest
It'd be nice if it worked Talifer. There really arent many (any?) crafters around who are charging large profits - most would do whatever they could to keep the costs down as far as possible.

The time taken to sell 99% gear at a 'fair' price is ridiculous - which would result in crafters having even more expensive items sitting in the vault waiting to be sold.

Having 2/5/10/whatever plat worth of items waiting to be sold certainly doesnt help you keep enough gold available to be able to buy materials required to deal with customers orders.
 
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Alrindel

Guest
They don't charge profit because they sell all the 99%s off afterwards.
To whom?

If a customer orders a masterpiece barbed spear and it takes 3p to make one, he has to pay the 3p it cost to make it. Even if I had the money to cover the difference myself - and I don't, weaponcrafting has bankrupted me - don't think for a minute that I can just sell the 10 99% quality spears I made while crafting the MP. Firstly, there are ten legendary weaponsmiths in Hibernia to compete with, secondly, I don't have ten free spots in my vault, thirdly there aren't ten heros who need spears, and finally nobody wants a 99% quality item, everybody wants a masterpiece for the extra imbue. :(
 
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Talifer

Guest
The trouble is, other crafters in Albion are forcing this position.

I am not a heavy crafter, I didn't get into crafting to be rich or famous I just wanted to be able to craft my own weapons and also make weapons for my friends cheaply.

If someone asks me to make a 99% sabre for them, I might say sure I'll do it. They say how much? I say I'll do it at cost, no charge to you. They say great how much will it be then, I say it'll be about 470g, then they laugh. 470g! The going rate is 300g!

These MP crafters have forced the price of 99% items into the ground and now no other crafting is feasible other than MP. Someone in my guild might ask for a weapon from the guild weaponcrafter and realisticly I have to tell them, don't buy from me it's not worth it, get it from another crafter who has a MP order. I find myself buying my weapons because it's cheaper than making my own ;)

So how can this be rectified?
I charge less for a MP, in the region of 800g less, MP orders come to me or other crafters are forced to adopt a similar pricing scheme. With the new pricing scheme these crafters can no longer afford to sell 99% at 300-350g, since they've already paid for 2 retries, that's 210 + 52 + 52 = 314g, so now the price of 99% has been raised to 400-450g while MP orders have been reduced by 800g. Now I can once again quietly provide my guild/friends with cheap weapons without losing all my own gold.

It may be too late since 99% weapons have already been flooding the market unfortunately. But when the going rate of a weapon is BELOW cost value of the item something has gone very wrong.

Talifer
 
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Talifer

Guest
Originally posted by old.Ramas


Just a quick point.

This doesn't bring down the *cost* of an MP, it brings down the *price* of a MP. Subtle but important difference. ;)

Remember, crafters have limited funds too, and I know of practically none that have yet made back the 15 plat investment in LGM.

It brings down the "cost" of a MP to the customer. If someone pays 2.75p for a MP it "cost" them 2.75, if he they pay 1.9p it "cost" them 1.9p. The subtle difference is whether you take cost to mean crafter cost, or buyer cost, I'm implying buyer cost.

I certainly haven' t made my money back, not only have I not made my money back, after hitting 1000+ WC the only thing I have made is a loss. I have probably lost 5p crafting orders after 1000 WC ;)

Talifer
 
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Khalen

Guest
Bah cheater don't steal my ideas :( Thinking I was nice to people who were so desperate to get a MP and didn't get it or couldn't afford it in the max tries...
 
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Pin

Guest
Hehehe, as I said... I was using this method back 2 months ago or so, so a few people got really cheap MP orders from me, and it's been tough selling off my stock of 99s due to people saying "Ha, it's only worth half that!" when I quote them a price for 99 at cost price.
 
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Pin

Guest
Originally posted by Talifer

I certainly haven' t made my money back, not only have I not made my money back, after hitting 1000+ WC the only thing I have made is a loss. I have probably lost 5p crafting orders after 1000 WC ;)

Talifer

I think I'm about breaking even after finally selling most of my stock. The only cash I have made after 1k has come from trinketting, and after I finish paying for my MP leather suit, the rest is being ploughed back into guild crafters. So no, not gonna make my money back from crafting, and not gonna get rich.
 
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Talifer

Guest
I wish you people had made this public a few months back, maybe then we wouldn't be in a state where people think 300g is the average cost of an advanced weapon :)

I've never done this before because I've never tried to sell anything before, like I said I've never been overly bothered about selling my wares for profit, but it's annoying when I feel guilty selling my guild mates weapons for 400g when in actually fact I'm subsidising the actual cost ;)

It seems the only way I'm going to be able to provide my guild with these weapons, without paying for them all myself, is to make MPs using the above price scheme. :rolleyes:

Talifer
 
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Mishy

Guest
I used to run a similar scheme, free retry for every 99, and mp order at material cost... however like already said there is too many 99's in stock, not enough demand so it simply doesnt work anymore.

There has never been aguarantee that you can sell the 99's be4, and its defiantly very hard to do now - i still have some 99 Partisans left from my very first mp order, and ended up selling back to merchant a load of other 99% weapons.

Prices are pushed down because there is at least 12 1000+ weapon crafters in Albion - people who are still skilling up tend to have lower prices in order to get their skill points. This is a good thing for customers, not so great for crafters, but then crafting was never really designed as a get rich scheme - if you want to make money from crafting, get to 800 skill and salvage/trinket junk items/DF Items.
 
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Khalen

Guest
And I wanna make one thing clear also. MP are damn rare... people who can't afford over 1 P shouldn't even try placing the bid.. Average is 50 tries I heared all around me. Yes sometimes you get like 2 MP in 10 tries (I had that yesterday but had a damn bad day getting a 99er even within 5 tries after that all day, ask Hysteric.. :().

Another thing I had to make a MP for Vypericor. Max money he had was 800 G (around 12 retries that is I think). Knowing that it would be risky I started making the item... got 1x 99%er and no MP. So I messaged him that MP wasn't in it. Basically he had bought a 99er for 800 G (which is very high, considered some even have some in storage maybe for a lower price). But nevertheless he wanted a MP. The point here is that I have to pay from my own hard earned money (don't think that crafters have it easy because I work my ass off every day to get those orders done and also the lowbees) to get what he wanted and he doesn't have more money to pay me in full. So I stopped crafting the item first. Had to do other orders first to build up some money again. Then Vyper asked me if I did any today. I said not yet but thought might as well try a couple. So I started and what I got lucky and got it in the 2nd try. Nevertheless I sold it to Vyper cheaper then he earned (only 1 99%er I got in the entire spree (must have made about 20 sabres). But think about it when I had to do 50 tries... (that's over 2.8 P I tell yah, the point is when my money is gone I can't craft anything anymore... Can't do orders anymore and have to get back to farming money again...)


And yes Talifar I do that already the 99%ers taking off the MP but still I have to get em sold, make more items and not be broke..

Luck is a big factor never forget that... I try to make people happy but MP is an area I rather not walk in. It costs me money and even more for the wannahave...
 
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[DK]hakke

Guest
let crafters earn money, whats wrong with that? (Think Odysseus wrote that in another thread)
 
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Khalen

Guest
Originally posted by [DK]hakke
let crafters earn money, whats wrong with that? (Think Odysseus wrote that in another thread)

Indeed I work my but off each day I craft I get orders from all over, people who tell others where they got theirs from etc. etc.

If I wouldn't make some profit out of it I wouldn't even do it.
 

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