Politics Coronavirus

[Gwadien]

You've already expressed outright admiration for China @Gwadien. And I think that's pretty shocking tbh. Especially given not only their track record, but the current reality of life in China today.

Evidence or i'm going to stick you on ignore, this is getting boring.

 

[Scouse]

Evidence or i'm going to stick you on ignore, this is getting boring.

It was in a conversation you were having with Job a few weeks ago. Maybe it was tongue-in-cheek or flippant, but who's to know? Do you really want me to start searching through hundreds of posts?

If you don't admire China then that's absolutely fine and I retract that.

But if you don't want to give the impression that you're a full on commie authoritarian lover then there are points you could respond to, or correct me on. Like the medical privacy point. But if you're blanking things, not putting alternative arguments forward - not making how you actually feel clear - all that's going to happen is that things become compounded and more entrenched and the argument worsens (rather than us coming to a common understanding - as used to be).

/shrug

 

[Bodhi]

This.

But more importantly - @Gwadien doesn't want to answer the "medical privacy principle" question. I think it's because this:



He wants 1 or 2, not 3.

Now 1 or 2 are potentially options. But this is about a type of mentality within governments and the type of actions government can take. We have multiple historical precedents for the types of governments that take these sort of actions - and they're not very pretty.

So 3, whilst undesireable, is the only outcome in a free society. You cannot force humanity to be perfect. If you agree that one action is proportionate (in the face of covid) then automatically other actions are clearly also proportionate - because if we do A for covid then the argument for B C and D for other reasons becomes not just reasonable, but almost inarguable.

Government needs to be a servant of the people, not a master or overlord of them.

You've already expressed outright admiration for China @Gwadien. And I think that's pretty shocking tbh. Especially given not only their track record, but the current reality of life in China today.

If not being China means we have to put up with idiots - idiots who may even inadvertently cause death through their own stupidity - that's better than living under tyrrany.

The other question is where does it stop? If Nigel is one of those who is at high risk of a bad outcome from COVID, there is an awful lot else out there he is at risk from - colds, flus, stomach bugs, glandular fever, viral pneumonia etc etc.

Can't help feeling Nigel would be better served by some simple advice - if you're ill, stay at home til you get better.

 

[Scouse]

You didnt answer how they can have tested on pregnant women. Just went off on thalidomide which was just an example of what could go wrong. Not that it will or that a vaccine is anything like that drug.

I've no idea. I'm not a drug-testing expert.

I spoke about thalidomide as it's something I know a bit about - and you brought it up, so I didn't "go off" on it

As for the former, I dunno, but I would have thought that any vaccine will be less dangerous for pregnant women than covid. So it's the risk thing. What the exact absolute risks are and how they test for these things, or extrapolating going forward, I don't know.

But what I do know is that historically vaccines have an excellent safety record, have saved hundreds of millions of people and the vanishingly small number of people who've been harmed by unintended side effects are absolutely dwarfed by the numbers that have had their lives saved.

On that measure alone, I'd take any vaccine and feel confident that it would do me zero harm. And I'd suggest that to my family too - the alternatives has been proven time and again too damn risky to contemplate and I refuse to be ruled by fear of the unknown or other vanishingly small risks.

 

[Scouse]

The other question is where does it stop? If Nigel is one of those who is at high risk of a bad outcome from COVID, there is an awful lot else out there he is at risk from - colds, flus, stomach bugs, glandular fever, viral pneumonia etc etc.

Can't help feeling Nigel would be better served by some simple advice - if you're ill, stay at home til you get better.

That doesn't force him to comply though @Bodhi.

And if we force him to comply with edict A, then you're right - all other edicts become enforceable because of the same arguments.

Maybe we mandate his attendance at a re-education camp programme at a lovely hotel? And if he doesn't attend that, maybe we stick him in prison. And suddenly his irrational terror and poor education has made him a criminal.

 

[Bodhi]

That doesn't force him to comply though @Bodhi.

And if we force him to comply with edict A, then you're right - all other edicts become enforceable because of the same arguments.

Maybe we mandate his attendance at a re-education camp programme at a lovely hotel? And if he doesn't attend that, maybe we stick him in prison. And suddenly his irrational terror and poor education has made him a criminal.

Sounds awesome. Maybe they could write your vaccination status on some sort of microchip - so you could be scanned going into venues? Maybe some sort of barcode or some sort of designation to wear?

 

[Gumbo]

Sounds awesome. Maybe they could write your vaccination status on some sort of microchip - so you could be scanned going into venues? Maybe some sort of barcode or some sort of designation to wear?

Everyone who gets the vaccine gets a gold star!!

Oh, no,.. wait...

 

[Scouse]

Sounds awesome. Maybe they could write your vaccination status on some sort of microchip - so you could be scanned going into venues? Maybe some sort of barcode or some sort of designation to wear?

Yeah. If we're going to go down that route you might as well microchip everyone.

Everyone who gets the vaccine gets a gold star!!

Oh, no,.. wait...

Actually lolled

 

[Scouse]

I feel for the pubs here.

Covid: Brains to close more than 100 pubs due to Wales' alcohol rules

Most of its 1,500 staff will be put on furlough while the measures are in force, Brains says.

www.bbc.co.uk

Mr Darby said there was "an awful stench of totalitarianism" surrounding the new rules. ... [he] said the move suggests pubs and restaurants are areas of "high transmission".

If the data suggests that pub closures is effective then potentially the government needs to show their working's out?

What I suspect is that pub closures are part of a package of measures taken that are effective, but they can't narrow it down to pubs specifically - so releasing the data will just make the argument noisier.


What I do know is that Saturday night in Llanrwst the streets will be deserted - instead of large groups of 20 year olds getting drunk and hugging each other. So, maybe that's what they're targetting - the Friday / Saturday night drunken crowd, who definitely aren't social distancing.

They're open in the day - which near me is walkers going into the hills, coming back, eating a meal and having a pint. Not really mixing with other groups.

So yeah. Thinking about it, I do feel for the pubs - especially around here as it's an almostly exclusively tourist town. But maybe it's the right thing to do.

 

[Scouse]

OK - just for you @Yoni

Can we give China a shot at being leaders of the free world?

...

 

[Bodhi]

Speaking of China, in the most surprising bit of news ever!

Leaked documents reveal China's mishandling of the early stages of Covid-19 pandemic

Misleading public data, a three-week lag in diagnosing new virus cases, and a previously undeclared regional spike in influenza cases: 117 pages of internal documents show a chaotic and underfunded provincial health care system struggling to confront a mysterious viral outbreak.

edition.cnn.com

Turns out they may not have been entirely honest with their COVID numbers.

 

[Gwadien]

OK - just for you @Yoni

...

Really? lmao.

 

[Scouse]

Really? lmao.

You then went on to compare America's school pledge to the flag to chinese indoctrination.

It's not the only thing, and frankly - you did write it.

Like I said - who know's how you feel if you don't answer direct questions.

/shrug

 

[Moriath]

Everyone who gets the vaccine gets a gold star!!

Oh, no,.. wait...

Could get a free tattoo on yr wrist for getting it.

 

[Moriath]

You then went on to compare America's school pledge to the flag to chinese indoctrination.

It's not the only thing, and frankly - you did write it.

Like I said - who know's how you feel if you don't answer direct questions.

/shrug

American ppl get peer pressure to be nationalistic. Actually made a mistake of thinking those i work with in the usa would be anti trump. Until one guy went on and on about bad counties and mafia. I mean we could go back to rotten boroughs in uk democracy lol.

anyway they get nudge nudge all the time america is the best.

unlike China who just arrest you if you show dissent.

 

[Raven]

Well it's not happening anyway so I don't really see what the fuss is still.

 

[Scouse]

Well it's not happening anyway so I don't really see what the fuss is still.

It's a reaction to the fact that a significant portion of our society would go there, despite knowing the lessons of the past.

 

[Aoami]

Covid: Daily Mail gave NHS masks linked to Chinese Uighur factory

A PPE delivery is believed to have come from a Chinese factory suspected of using a labour scheme.

www.bbc.co.uk

I'm sure they didn't do this on purpose, but peak Daily Mail anyway.

 

[Raven]

Some good news this morning.

Covid-19: Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine judged safe for use in UK

The UK is the first country to approve the Pfizer vaccine - with 800,000 doses due to arrive soon.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Aoami]

Gives me hope we will be back to normal by next summer. Fingers crossed.

 

[Job]

Heres a reddit science thread about probably one of the main concerns with vaccines, autoimmune response and turning people into puffer fish.

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/k4ndl7/how_do_we_know_that_covid19_vaccines_wont_teach/.compact

 

[Scouse]

Heres a reddit science thread

STFU @Job you anti-vaxxer wanker.

Stop posting non-science worry threads from people who don't understand the basics of their own conditions.

 

[Bodhi]

Heres a reddit science thread about probably one of the main concerns with vaccines, autoimmune response and turning people into puffer fish.

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/k4ndl7/how_do_we_know_that_covid19_vaccines_wont_teach/.compact

Well if they're worried they know what to do - How nicotine can inhibit cytokine storm in the lungs and prevent or lessen the severity of COVID-19 infection?

Marlboro or Benson?

 

[Raven]

Well if they're worried they know what to do - How nicotine can inhibit cytokine storm in the lungs and prevent or lessen the severity of COVID-19 infection?

Marlboro or Benson?

and

Cannabis May Reduce Deadly COVID-19 Lung Inflammation: Researchers Explain Why

Researchers are recommending more research into how cannabis-derived CBD might help treat dangerous lung inflammation from the novel coronavirus. The authors detailed the evidence for how cannabis’ anti-inflammatory powers may help in this month's issue of Brain, Behavior, and Immunity.

www.forbes.com

*no idea of the validity!

 

[Bodhi]

and

Cannabis May Reduce Deadly COVID-19 Lung Inflammation: Researchers Explain Why

Researchers are recommending more research into how cannabis-derived CBD might help treat dangerous lung inflammation from the novel coronavirus. The authors detailed the evidence for how cannabis’ anti-inflammatory powers may help in this month's issue of Brain, Behavior, and Immunity.

www.forbes.com

*no idea of the validity!

Sounds like we should be turning COVID wards into hotboxes. Anyone got Chris Witty's email address?

 

[Aoami]

Sounds like we should be turning COVID wards into hotboxes. Anyone got Chris Witty's email address?

This is the kind of outside the box thinking old Cummings was looking for - ideasfornumber10@gmail.com (genuine email address managed by Dom by the way).

 

[Bodhi]

This is the kind of outside the box thinking old Cummings was looking for - ideasfornumber10@gmail.com (genuine email address managed by Dom by the way).

Does it help my case if I already have a supplier I can put the Government in touch with? He's not me mate in any way shape or form, but I do fancy a new house.

Seriously though, it's a shame this didn't get more traction - would have done wonders for the legalisation movement.

 

[Raven]

I think post covid it will become legal anyway, they will be desperate for tax revenue streams.

Prohibition doesn't work, it just means the money goes to dealers rather than the economy.

 

[Job]

Maybe fucking read it for very detailed info on why he doesnt gave to worry, though obviously there are problems and they are addressed with all vaccines.
Not everyone can take vaccines because of immune problems.
Its a very good thread.
Stop being anti scientific

 

[Scouse]

Its a very good thread.
Stop being anti scientific

It's bugger all to do with science. It's unqualified amateurs and members of the public yakking shit about how they interpret stuff.

It's worried people talking about stuff. It's just another reddit thread. It's gossip - not science.