COOP Server...

[Lian]

To the point - I'd like a co-op server...

Would be blinding, just salvage Camlann and turn it into a Co-Op xE... Apparently its the unofficial 3rd English server and we want a Co-Op not pvp. Well I do at least

Ah yes, because there's no people that are playing there atm It is basically a coop server for the most part, as long as you stay out of the way of the pvp areas. Noone in his right mind is going to trawl through the epic zones, most of the SI zones and ToA aside from the havens to look for xpers...

Most of the high level pvp is fg vs fg, which is what most rvr guilds look for, and you can usually find action fast if know where to look. Also with the portal system you can be back in action within seconds if you are thus inclined.

ML don't play much of a role, as not many of the guilds are big enough, or thus inclined. I think it's probably more fun for a slightly more casual player than say Prydwen.

 

[Hufner]

It depends how you define function and remember we both said up to level 50. You could stop at pretty much any point on the way if you wanted to. I'm not saying you'd be any good though. Just like a level 50 Paladin in his epic with no RR would not have much of a chance as main tank on a dragon raid.

I was merely pulling your leg a bit

But I agree partly with you, RA's enhance the characters abilities - and I guess this is why you on Gaheris get one free realm skill point on each level after you ding 20. And going keepraiding for the glowy seals to gain RR5 is also part of the bargain. A shield and chant specced pally would still do pretty decently as MA on a dragonraid in my opinion

 

[Escape]

care to tell me what a pve compatible class would be?? thane? paladin? friar? necro? bard? imo, any class can be a pve class. and any spec would do to... thats the beauty(sp?) about pve.. theres no need to be uber twinked and uber leet specced.. u can still pve...

Most casters have no place in high-end PvE. If you're taking limited numbers on a raid, will you choose the caster with staff-melee skills, or the hybrid tank who can style and do more besides. Something to consider for the next expansion too. Hence, not every class is good for PvE.

Elitism and PL? Hehehehehe.. Funny person...

Combining the best classes from the realms into one team is great fun for people like me, who enjoy PvE.

hmmm, so you laugh off the idea of PvE Elitism... then confess to being guilty of the same oO

imo, Elitism = grouping the most suited classes at the expense of others.
Yes, making a 'perfect' group and kicking ass in PvE will be fun... but what happens to melee-spec rangers, firbolg bards and so on. Good classes will always be grouped before gimped ones and that is PvE elitism. It happens on all servers now, to think this will change on a PvE server is delusion.

 

[Linnet]

It is basically a coop server for the most part, as long as you stay out of the way of the pvp areas.

But aren't the pvp areas like ... everywhere? I thought that was the point.

 

[Svartmetall]

I did. The only reason I ever went out to RvR was because I had to be RR5 in order to be most efficient in PvE. If there was some PvE way of getting the same RR then I would have done that without a second thought.

Which is the only reason I ever endure RvR anymore. I've done enough of it to know that being farmed by elite(ist) gank squads and steamrolled by the eternal Alb zerg on Excal is just no fun at all. RvR, certainly in its current form, is a huge timesink with massive amounts of downtime and very little chance for most players of getting any RPs (i.e. RAs, eventually, if you spend night after night after night after night of your in-game time scrabbling around to get some kills) or fun from it. Sure, you can take a keep, but when you dont even get RPs for that, in the end it's futile. You only take a keep to get DF, and once you have DF, what are you going to do, take more keeps just for the hell of it? Of course not, it doesn't get you anything, you just go straight to DF.
Frontiers does look to be introducing RP rewards for keep takes (and it's inexplicable that that wasn't in the game from day one), I'm just hoping that that expansion stops RvR sucking so much so much of the time for so many players.
If it doesn't, then DAOC is in big big trouble, because the so-called "endgame" will be something that a sizeable proportion of the playerbase isn't really interested in. The game will polarise even further than it has already into "RvR players" and "PvE players", and all too often ne'er the twain shall meet.

Sure there were a few occasions where I enjoyed RvR but they were not enough to make me consider it in any way the "point" of me playing DAoC. Anyway as people are repeatedly pointing out there is a "RR grind" in the same way as there is an "exp grind" or a "ML grind" or whatever else you want to complain about. It all depends on your point of view and what you consider necessary to having a decent character.

Exactly.

When the only tangible reward for RvR is RPs, and when those are so slow to come, why bother? This is a game, I play it for fun, and if something in it isn't fun, why would I do it at all?

RvR players complain (and complain and complain and COMPLAIN) about "having" to do MLs, but after 4 hours you WILL have gotten ML4 under your belt. 4 hours of RvR could very well (and all too often WILL) leave you with bugger all RPs to speak of and having spent most of your time either eating dirt (having been ganked or steamrolled by the aforementioned usual culprits) or running around going "where are the Albs/Hibs?" and getting more and more frustrated as you realise how much in-game time you're wasting with nothing to show for it...no action and no fun.

4 hours of PvE = guaranteed return.
4 hours of RvR = all too often, nothing.

But this isn't a "PvE vs. RvR" thread, the whole point is that some people enjoy RvR a lot and other people don't enjoy it at all. RvR players already have plenty of choice, but PvE players in Europe don't yet have the co-op option that the US players get, and it's about time we did. In no way should Camlann be "salvaged" to give us this, there's a dedicated playerbase that loves the PvP gamestyle and it would be absolutely wrong to deprive them of their home. If French players can be given the Carnac server, which still has a very small population compared to any of the other "normal" Euro servers, then it is entirely reasonable for GOA to add a co-op server (which would, I'm reasonably certain, have a bigger population than either Carnac or Camlann).

And even a brief perusal of this thread shows how large is the percentage of posters who would really like a Euro co-op server.

 

[Hufner]

hmmm, so you laugh off the idea of PvE Elitism... then confess to being guilty of the same oO

imo, Elitism = grouping the most suited classes at the expense of others.
Yes, making a 'perfect' group and kicking ass in PvE will be fun... but what happens to melee-spec rangers, firbolg bards and so on. Good classes will always be grouped before gimped ones and that is PvE elitism. It happens on all servers now, to think this will change on a PvE server is delusion.

No, I laugh at the comment on existence of elitism on Gaheris.
And we have a slightly different view on elitism, since I define it to be derising all other classes than those deemed "ubah" and refuse to group with chars that aren't on the "ubah" list.

Never said I did that, I just stated that one of the great things about Gaheris is the ability to use those classes.

If you stay for a period of time in for example Gothwaite Harbour to craft, you get to see the newbies asking what class is needed or popular in group.
99% of the time the answer will be along the lines of "Make the one you most want to play".
I've yet to play a char in a group, gimped class or non-gimped class that has been turned down. I talk out of experience, whereas you seem to talk based on what you think will happen.

 

[Lian]

But aren't the pvp areas like ... everywhere? I thought that was the point.

The PvP areas are everywhere but if you think most guild are going to trawl through all the zones Low level PvP is mainly Aegir, Gothwaithe, Cotswold, Prydwen Keep, Mag Mell and Ardee and surrounding areas. Sometimes you get ganked in the lowbie dungeons as well, but most of the time you can get peace if you want with the people already exping there.

High lvl PvP is mainly on the TNN-MM-RD-DL circle, the Cam E-Cots-PK-PKB-DF-Sauvage circle, DF and the ToA Havens. So you might die once or twice getting to where you want to go, but the immunity timer is long enough to horse/prt/run to wherever you want to go, and it's not profitable to chase down no reward people to their xp spot, aside from the fact that chaining is illegal to most of the more established PK guilds.

Back at the start of the server people still used to trawl xp spots to kill people, but it's more rewarding to do fg vs fg fights nowadays. I mean who in their right mind is going to run for 5-10mins to clear 3 yellow cons and their twinks at 4fins? It's only when people want to use the same camp as you're doing that you might get into fights.

 

[Sigurd]

maybe it WILL happend here to. but i dont give a fuck.. those that DO WANT a coop server will probably play on it to.. i hate rvr as it is now and id kill for a coop server just to get away from the elitist rvr servers... IMO the pve servers would be a place to go just to get away from it all.. and i know il never go back... i dont care if theres no "end game" if rvr is what u call endgame then fine.. its just a diffrent form of "grinding" as u say about pve... so dont bitch on those of us that want a coop server and go play ur preachious "rvr"

How mature you are. I'm just explaining why this probably won't happen, I said earlier I don't care if people want to play on a PvE server, I personally wouldn't bother and most other players agree - but then, there are plenty of RPGs or even MMORPGs where endlessly killing monsters is the main attraction I agree that most of RvR is a joke at the moment, but when it's good it's amazing, and New Frontiers will hopefully remove some of the bad stuff. Now, please read posts carefully in the future, and don't be so self-centred as to take personal offence to anything anyone says.

 

[Margaret]

I said earlier I don't care if people want to play on a PvE server, I personally wouldn't bother and most other players agree

How, exactly, do you know that 'most' other players agree? Seems to me there's a lot of people who do want a co-op server, and if we get one, wouldn't that just be good for you? Less of the PvE-crazy crowd around and more of the 'hardcore' RvRers?

 

[Sigurd]

How, exactly, do you know that 'most' other players agree? Seems to me there's a lot of people who do want a co-op server, and if we get one, wouldn't that just be good for you? Less of the PvE-crazy crowd around and more of the 'hardcore' RvRers?

Well most RvRers aren't even going to bother posting in this thread...

 

[Margaret]

Well most RvRers aren't even going to bother posting in this thread...

And most PvEers don't even read this forum.

 

[Sigurd]

And most PvEers don't even read this forum.

Well most DAoC players don't even read this forum... seriously though, how many times have you /sent someone "hi, want to join us for RvR in Odin's" and they've replied "no thanks, I hate RvR"

 

[haarewin]

i agree that a Co-op server would be great exp groups would be more fun if you could include every realms most fun classes in it
i dont know if i myself would like to always be in high end pve situation.. as i enjoy rvr a fair bit too, but obviously people have expressed an interest in it, and i think it should be attracted to goa's attention

 

[haarewin]

Well most DAoC players don't even read this forum... seriously though, how many times have you /sent someone "hi, want to join us for RvR in Odin's" and they've replied "no thanks, I hate RvR"

4 times, actually.

 

[Margaret]

Well most DAoC players don't even read this forum... seriously though, how many times have you /sent someone "hi, want to join us for RvR in Odin's" and they've replied "no thanks, I hate RvR"

Several times, as it so happens.

But you didn't actually answer my question. Wouldn't a co-op server be a good thing for 'hardcore' RvRers? It'd surely thin the ranks of those not 'leet' or 'skilled' enough to get into gankgroups, thus paving the way for less 'zerging' and more 8vs8.

 

[Asty]

4 hours of PvE = guaranteed return.
4 hours of RvR = all too often, nothing.

lol, more like the other way around imo, cant even count time times i've farmed some bloody scroll all day and when i log off after the 4 hours i dont have it.

 

[Margaret]

lol, more like the other way around imo, cant even count time times i've farmed some bloody scroll all day and when i log off after the 4 hours i dont have it.

But you'll have money and loot dropped, plus xp.

Whereas if you spend four hours in RvR you can end up with bugger-all except a slimmer purse from the porting scrolls and medallions.

 

[Linnet]

And most PvEers don't even read this forum.

Which is strange because apart from the RvR sniping and such, one of the most productive uses of the boards has been in organising PvE raids IMO. (Since it clearly is beyond Mythic to provide some kind of in-game messaging/newsboard system such as any basic MUD would have )

 

[Sigurd]

Several times, as it so happens.

But you didn't actually answer my question. Wouldn't a co-op server be a good thing for 'hardcore' RvRers? It'd surely thin the ranks of those not 'leet' or 'skilled' enough to get into gankgroups, thus paving the way for less 'zerging' and more 8vs8.

Never happened to me or anyone I know... pretty much everyone, except a few newbs revelling in their new surroundings would answer the opposite infact - when asked if they want to join an XP group, they'd reply "sorry, RvRing" you see, XPing is just a road. It takes you to a destination - a new level, master level, "uber" items, cash - all so you can fine tune your character for RvR. Thing about DAoC is there are, as far as I know, currently no other games out there with RvR (note, this isn't PvP - I mean, preset teams, nations if you will, that you can choose to join etc.) maybe Planetside but that's a joke of a game. As such many DAoC players play the game only for RvR. Sorry, but there it is. Don't get your knickers in a twist, just settle back and PvE yourself to death on the normal servers, swap to the US version or wait for GOA to release a co-op server (probably never going to happen) As for your question... I do not play in "gank groups" I'm not in an RvR guild and I hate their elitist attitude. However, I still have fun in RvR, you just need to be with the right people in the right place and have a little luck. I don't think many of the non-1337 players I play with like PvE any more than me, and I very much doubt any would leave their servers for a new PvE server, should they play on the Euro servers.

 

[Garok]

Never happened to me or anyone I know... pretty much everyone, except a few newbs revelling in their new surroundings would answer the opposite infact - when asked if they want to join an XP group, they'd reply "sorry, RvRing" you see, XPing is just a road. It takes you to a destination - a new level, master level, "uber" items, cash - all so you can fine tune your character for RvR. Thing about DAoC is there are, as far as I know, currently no other games out there with RvR (note, this isn't PvP - I mean, preset teams, nations if you will, that you can choose to join etc.) maybe Planetside but that's a joke of a game. As such many DAoC players play the game only for RvR. Sorry, but there it is. Don't get your knickers in a twist, just settle back and PvE yourself to death on the normal servers, swap to the US version or wait for GOA to release a co-op server (probably never going to happen) As for your question... I do not play in "gank groups" I'm not in an RvR guild and I hate their elitist attitude. However, I still have fun in RvR, you just need to be with the right people in the right place and have a little luck. I don't think many of the non-1337 players I play with like PvE any more than me, and I very much doubt any would leave their servers for a new PvE server, should they play on the Euro servers.

PS > DAOC for RvR tbh

 

[Margaret]

Never happened to me or anyone I know... pretty much everyone, except a few newbs revelling in their new surroundings would answer the opposite infact - when asked if they want to join an XP group, they'd reply "sorry, RvRing" you see, XPing is just a road. It takes you to a destination - a new level, master level, "uber" items, cash - all so you can fine tune your character for RvR.

"It is good to have an end to journey towards, but it is the journey that matters in the end." --Ursula K. LeGuin

Quite a few of us enjoy that road.

 

[Sigurd]

Follow my suggestions then. BTW, Planetside was one of the worst games I've ever played... if you're going to have a shooty-type game it needs to be in FPS format, or at least third person action like tomb raider or MGS... anything else just won't work

 

[Margaret]

Why are you so dead-set against a co-op server, Sigurd? It won't interfere with your enjoyment of the game, surely, to have an additional server that caters to those of us that enjoy the PvE side of the game and would like to be able to explore all three realms without having to switch servers and level up characters in a French or German environment?

It smacks of contrariness for contrariness' sake, frankly.

 

[Sigurd]

Ok, firstly, I said several times I'm not against a Co-op server... I just personally wouldn't play it. Secondly - I play on the US servers, I have access to all realms in English (or a distorted version of it) and I've ventured onto Gaheris - at peak time, I didn't meet a single person in Jordheim or the surrounding area - on other servers there's always someone there. Anyway, have fun if you get your co-op server... but I sincerely doubt GOA will bother.

And yes, arguments are quite enjoyable sometimes, especially if they're created by people not reading your posts properly

 

[Margaret]

Ok, firstly, I said several times I'm not against a Co-op server... I just personally wouldn't play it.

And then you go on to speak condescendingly of PvEers and state vehemently and repeatedly that a co-op server is doomed to fail, to crash and burn, and imply that people are morons to want one. Very nice.

 

[Kami]

I've nothing against a co-op server but I'd much rather have a 3rd english server so I could try out hib again or have the existing servers improved.

 

[Fenderon]

I dont think a third "normal" (non PvP, non co-op) english server would survive. Look at the number of players on pryd..

Just not enough players for a whole new normal server.

I'd welcome a co-op server though.. but are there enough players out there to make it work?

 

[Atheistic Archon]

Thing about DAoC is there are, as far as I know, currently no other games out there with RvR (note, this isn't PvP - I mean, preset teams, nations if you will, that you can choose to join etc.) maybe Planetside but that's a joke of a game.

EQ had Tallon, Vallon and Sullon Zek, where teams were based on race or deity.

 

[Ballad]

And Asheron's Call II has Kingdom vs Kingdom combat.

 

[Sigurd]

Outdated crap. EQ has a race of cat-people... nothing more need be said. Anyway, take whatever I say however you want to, if you feel I'm condescending maybe your subconcious is trying to tell you something