Condemned houses

[Chronictank]

When I stopped paying Telewest they removed my online email account from their servers since I wasn't paying for it anymore. I wouldn't expect them to remove all the current subscribers mailboxes as well to "make it fair on me" or to keep mine since I don't pay for it anymore.

Rubbish example,
A more accurate one would be you stop subscribing to Xbox live and they remove all your credits because you are "no longer paying for the service"

Or if you want to use your telewest example, the email is based on credits earned,
You stop subscribing and they close your account even though you are credited for x period

I'm aware of that. The point is that I doubt many people on Dyvet are actually playing because of the action or challenge of the game. It's the people they get to log on and talk to. In effect it's like a fancy chat room with graphics. The people that actually wanted to play and challenge themselves with the game moved to a server where that is still possible. The people that viewed the community (their 3 mates they log on with) as the only reason to still be there stayed, since that aspect is still there.

Well its not really, as if one of their mates left the game but remained on the forums then its not the same is it?
Whereas the forums provide a medium for them to communicate with all 3 of their mates
FH is nothing to do with daoc, it just happened to be used to organise things because GOA arent running their own forums

 

[Golena]

Rubbish example,
A more accurate one would be you stop subscribing to Xbox live and they remove all your credits because you are "no longer paying for the service"

How long do you think you should be entitled to the "free storage of your data" for? If they announced that they were closing the server down in 50 years time because no-one had logged on for the last 40 years would you still create a huge fuss that your house was going to be lost?
At what point does your request to be able to have the ability to return even tho your not prepared to pay any money for it now become stupid?

Well its not really, as if one of their mates left the game but remained on the forums then its not the same is it?
Whereas the forums provide a medium for them to communicate with all 3 of their mates
FH is nothing to do with daoc, it just happened to be used to organise things because GOA arent running their own forums

No idea what your saying here.
I never even said anything about FH so don't see what your getting at here.

Either you've completely missed the point or i'm being thick.

 

[Esselinithia]

that wouldn't have made a slightest bit of difference. why? because ppl would have complained and bitched JUST as much and left the server/game because of rollbacks that caused ppl to lose items, cash, ML's, ML xp and even whole toons that was PL'd in a day and templated with cash they had before the crash occured.

and they said first day of the crash that a rollback wasn't an option as the crash would have occured again anyway. so what we would have had then would be a cyckle of rollbacks and crashes.

And theyalso said WHY it would be crash again: Because ALL their backups were corrupted. Normally you check your database regularly (at least when you have to restart) and keep several backups, so you can roll back without repeating the crash.

In case of dyvet:

They had no good backups
They haven't spotted the database corruption for days after reports.

And they said that mentioning database corruption in these days were just pure speculation and assumption, and they had similar bugs in early beta.

Have to say: The bug in beta was fixed, if you see similar symptoms, you should look for new cause of bugs, and the several dfferent problems we seen in the game made it clear: They have a serious problem.

Why? Because appearance of such visible bugs a the same time is about impossible without any real problem, and if not only the displayed but the stored data is affected (item duplication made it clear, also remote deaths, etc), then that is time to shut down the cluster, look for problems, look if you have good backups.

Letting the game to run a few days more, with some restart and overwriting backups (not keeping what you had at first sign of trouble) is incredibly bad move.

Why? Because I knew that it isn't the beta code anymore (from early daoc beta), I knew that in this case the bug can do much harm, because I know how a database or a game server is working, because I learned about it. GOA staff assumed they see an old and fixed bug again, they assumed it won't cause problems, they assumed it is safe to overwrite backups have a not so well thought out backup policy. Data loss was the result.

Interesting enough, but other companies who run MMORPGs don't assume such things, and don't label all feedback as assumptions, when they (GOA) was repeatedly proven wrong (they say OT is the only backbone in france, yet there is Vivendi-Universal, Sprintlink, etc. and you can verify their existence) and they don't have anything like dyvet crash.

It is strange, that my "assumptions" are always backed up by technical information (like how an MMORPG game should be designed) and if you learn how it should work you should see the same reasults. And it is also told why other possible outcomes, reasons are unlikely. While your assumptions come without that.

And my assumptions that were verifiable by a 3rd party (RIPE, etc) or by future events foreseen was proved accurate, and the contradicting statements from you, and in many cases GOA (who isn't that good about telling the truth) was proven wrong.

In all honesty: IF GOA would unable to turn off this feature, I would say ok, there is grounds for debate. BUT somehow how the game should work based on some principles, info from Mythic, and info from future shown you: you are proven wrong.

It isn't a hard coded feature that cannot be disabled. It is well within the parts of game that can be (and are) modified by GOA, all what was said by me was found out to be truth, and all what was said by you was found out as wrong. Yet you don't admit, but argue.

Your assumption about why people are staying (fancy graphical chat room) ignore some evidence you have access to: People in Cumbria had no long terming realtionship, chat with friends, etc. reasons to stay in the begining, and cumbria had no sizeable population ever.

Yet people try to play on it.

It shows people can enjoy playing on a low population server.

When a friend of mine learned french and we went to a french server, I looked for a lower population one, and people there were friendly, very friendly.

Why? Some people come from a background with playing FPS or RTS games online in a competitive way, and for them many different enemies to fight (a big enough "scene" for given RVR style) is important, and fighting style is important.

Others come from CPRGs like Baldurs Gate, etc. and don't need enemies, they only need some fgs. As long as a realm can support an fg and most content is fg doable the game can be played in the same way as they played and enjoyed some CRPGs. Yes, for this you don't need more than 24 players at peak hours, to make ALL realms playable. CRPG like players who don't like RvR at all, can enjoy a PVE like game with just 8 players.

Anything significantly more than this means: you have multiple parties, can encounter other PCs while adventuring often (even if you are with an fg...) so even in fg way of leveling you have some key MMORPG elements.

We can see MMORPGs and "persistent worlds" with similar chances of Player to Player interaction, and similar population count on worlds.

What you see as lack of RvR action means: They can do their assassin tasks in peace without meeting someone red...They can even take a tower, siege a keep (in PVE way) and enjoy the game.

This, with language barriers (and possible payment problems on mythic servers) gives them a good enough reason to stay. And if they define the community, it will become a much more friendly place new players, and some "comebacks" and will give a good reason for some positive change in population.

 

[Thorwyn]

It is strange, that my "assumptions" are always backed up by technical information (like how an MMORPG game should be designed) and if you learn how it should work you should see the same reasults. And it is also told why other possible outcomes, reasons are unlikely. While your assumptions come without that.

It´s strange that your assumptions have been proven to be piles of utter bullshit time and time again in the past. It´s strange that your mindless babbling has no technical (let alone design!) backup whatsoever except for the backup in your mind. It´s strange (and sad) that you still feel the urge to enlighten other people with your wisdom as if you´re carrying the pope in your pocket.

I´m sorry to burst your bubble: You´re just one of those people who have coded 10 lines of code in their life, maybe got a degree in IT whatever and then think they fooking know everything from coding to marketing to gamedesign to leveldesign to gfx to the state of the business in general, when in fact they don´t know jack shit. Those people are the worst kinds of customers a company can probably have, simply because whatever problems arise, you will come up with a wonderful explanation straight out of cloud chochoo land.

 

[Esselinithia]

GOA: Yeah, GOA proven me wrong by saying the routers in france that are known by ripe, etc. are not exisitent in mind of GOA morons and fanbois.

They proven me wrong by fixing prydwen crash quickly instead of taking at least weeks.

They proven me wrong by making sure it didn't happen, since that way it wouldn't be bugs.

If you think GOA lies and assumptions can prove anything wrong, then hey: don't complain GOA will fix population problem when it becomes a problem it is nice and stable now, be happy. You are proven wrong.

Sadly we had enough time to see: GOA lies can't prove anyone wrong. Check what was claimed by me, and check what GOA said, and check how often RIPE database, future events proven them wrong and me right

And you only have to check this incident: I said it can be turned off, Golena said it can't and you revere tat as truth and my info as assumption. Correct, except you mr. moron forgot to stop insults and say: "ok, my mistake it can be turned off" when it was turned off.

Let me educate you: Personal attacks like ones you make will not "prove" it can't be turned off. It only makes you look stupid because you still don't recognize it is turned off already. Sadly: pointing to GOA oppinions as proof agains me, when I told many times: if GOA doesn't see a database corruption in several days worth of database when they check for source of problem and restart servers, and as result overwrite last good backup, then their "experts oppinion" about what is wrong with a database means shit.

 

[Thorwyn]

I didn´t even talk about this "incident" and who´s right and who´s wrong here. If you care to read my posts, you might realise that. But nevermind... not reading other peoples posts (yet replying to them and putting things into peoples mouth) is one of your favourite tactics, I know.
I merely stated that YOU telling other people to stop making assumptions is a hillarious case of pot-kettle-black.

Let me educate you:

I don´t need education from you and your pseudo-didactic drivel, thanks very much.

 

[Chronictank]

How long do you think you should be entitled to the "free storage of your data" for? If they announced that they were closing the server down in 50 years time because no-one had logged on for the last 40 years would you still create a huge fuss that your house was going to be lost?
At what point does your request to be able to have the ability to return even tho your not prepared to pay any money for it now become stupid?

are the housing zones still going to be there once the houses have been deleted? yes
will they be reducing anything by deleting them? no
are they implementing something in its place to warrant the move? nope again
could the developers be doing something better with their time? most definitely yes

You have yet to come up with 1 valid reason to justify the move, the only one i would give any credence that has been posted so far is players having to travel further for items (and incidently there will be less if houses are condemned as some servers cant field the numbers to do quests for the more rare ones, thus nullifying the point), which isnt even a minor niggle anymore due to the teleport stones in the markets
And your 40 years example again is ridiculous, as the fact of the matter is that the houses would dissapear anyway due to no rent being paid in said time frame

and to make the point clearer, this isnt about player details, this isnt about email it is about the player housing in the situation as it is
If they wanted to use the plots for something better that is an entirely different matter, if there is a performance gain from deleting some again an entirely different matter, if they were closing down servers (see housing zones) again it would be justified. But as far as we know they arent being improved in any way

 

[Cromcruaich]

theres a difference between coding it that way and simply running in and deleting things which essentially what this is
I dont care about my plot on a game i am unlikely (unless there is some super new feature which makes it all that more attractive) to play again,
however changing the ruleset to affect only people who are'nt subscribed is simply ridiculous

If they change it so money needs to be paid into the lock box instead from the CM for everyone then there is no argument, however this isn't even remotely the case

Actually I meant in respect to the way Mythic implemented it orignally. Dont see the basis for this comment at all.

however changing the ruleset to affect only people who are'nt subscribed is simply ridiculous

Oh well, finding it hard to really care about DAOC at the moment.

 

[Golena]

You have yet to come up with 1 valid reason to justify the move, the only one i would give any credence that has been posted so far is players having to travel further for items (and incidently there will be less if houses are condemned as some servers cant field the numbers to do quests for the more rare ones, thus nullifying the point), which isnt even a minor niggle anymore due to the teleport stones in the markets

Since with every patch all merchants that don't do /listmerchant vanish from the market the CM's on them become utterly useless anyway. There's probably nothing on a CM that's been there for 6 months that's still worth buying anyway. If they put them back all it would do is fill up the search with stuff that people ar't prepared to buy.

And your 40 years example again is ridiculous, as the fact of the matter is that the houses would dissapear anyway due to no rent being paid in said time frame

By my calculations if you fill up the CM on a small house it will still be there in 200 years. Want to think again?

and to make the point clearer, this isnt about player details, this isnt about email it is about the player housing in the situation as it is

It's about them doing work for people that have already walked away from them with very little chance of returning. As a business, that doesn't make sense.

 

[Golena]

And you only have to check this incident: I said it can be turned off, Golena said it can't and you revere tat as truth and my info as assumption.

No I said you didn't know if it was easy to turn off, which you don't. It might be easy to turn off sure, but you don't KNOW that, your guessing at that.

Do you know what communication had to happen in order for Mythic to allow GOA to change the code to do this?
Do you know exactly which lines of code would be changed?
Have you compiled the risk report on what else that could effect?
Have you sat in the meetings with the various people trying to decide which option should be implemented?

No you haven't.

While flipping a switch in code "might" be easy, the burocrecy that happens in large companies with such descisions takes time, pain and effort. You're just proving quite how clueless you are with every post.


The fact you talk about a few days rollback without realising that doing a few days rollback without generating way more whine than this issue is creating to their paying customers is almost laughable.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

So what some people on here seem to be thinking and saying is, when DAoC shuts down for good - as all good things do come to an end - you want to keep the data base for your toons somewhere safe or be compensated for the DB being shut down. Think about it eh. The DB belongs to GOA/Mythic, you accept the when you hit "accept terms of the EULA/COC" when entering the game, your house is part of that agreement and as such they can do what the hell the like with it. If you dont agree, then you are follish for clicking the button in the first place!

Ofc the most sensible thing to do is to pass all your gear to someone still playing, it might as well get used and items are becomming easier to replace these days with a few exceptions, and if you are away for a long period of time, you mght find that the gear you treasured so much is way out of date, as a friend recently found after reactivating after 3 years away.

While I will say that deleting houses makes little difference, I do also think paying players should be given the right to those plots if they want them, after all keeping that old place is money for nothing so to speak. My 2 houses on excal and 2 on pryd are now gone, mainly because I left them rentless on purpose to give others a chance of a decent plot. I wont be returning to EU ever, which is a shame but now I cant say I miss the old server, but some poepl I do .

End of the day the plot/character/house/weapon/armour is a virtual thing, and you dont own it, and have no rights to claim it to be "yours", espcially if you are not paying for that little peice of code anymore to qualify for even having it in the first place. 5 years from now youll trawl old URLs, come across this thread and think "Why did i talk such twatty feck flaps about that?" to yourself.

 

[Castus]

So what some people on here seem to be thinking and saying is, when DAoC shuts down for good - as all good things do come to an end - you want to keep the data base for your toons somewhere safe or be compensated for the DB being shut down. Think about it eh. The DB belongs to GOA/Mythic, you accept the when you hit "accept terms of the EULA/COC" when entering the game, your house is part of that agreement and as such they can do what the hell the like with it. If you dont agree, then you are follish for clicking the button in the first place!

Ofc the most sensible thing to do is to pass all your gear to someone still playing, it might as well get used and items are becomming easier to replace these days with a few exceptions, and if you are away for a long period of time, you mght find that the gear you treasured so much is way out of date, as a friend recently found after reactivating after 3 years away.

While I will say that deleting houses makes little difference, I do also think paying players should be given the right to those plots if they want them, after all keeping that old place is money for nothing so to speak. My 2 houses on excal and 2 on pryd are now gone, mainly because I left them rentless on purpose to give others a chance of a decent plot. I wont be returning to EU ever, which is a shame but now I cant say I miss the old server, but some poepl I do .

End of the day the plot/character/house/weapon/armour is a virtual thing, and you dont own it, and have no rights to claim it to be "yours", espcially if you are not paying for that little peice of code anymore to qualify for even having it in the first place. 5 years from now youll trawl old URLs, come across this thread and think "Why did i talk such twatty feck flaps about that?" to yourself.

I remember the time you took out a contract on Jason and myself cos we wouldn`t give back the 200g you 'loaned' us .... Oh yeh and the time you claimed squatters rights on a house.... oh and the time.....

 

[old.Whoodoo]

I remember the time you took out a contract on Jason and myself cos we wouldn`t give back the 200g you 'loaned' us .... Oh yeh and the time you claimed squatters rights on a house.... oh and the time.....

AND YOU STILL OWE MEH BYATCH!! btw, hows u and hows Jay doing, aint spoken to the old boy in yonks!

 

[Dwali]

i was gone from daoc for 1 year and then i got a free month for not being online for 1 year and i checkt and all my 3 houses stood at same spot

 

[Conway]

squatters rights on a house.

Oh yes, when they started housing and some people actually sat characters on plots for days whining if anyone walked by. Mine! Mine! Mine!

I'd forgotten all about that. It was hilarious.

So what some people on here seem to be thinking and saying is, when DAoC shuts down for good - as all good things do come to an end - you want to keep the data base for your toons somewhere safe or be compensated for the DB being shut down. Think about it eh. The DB belongs to GOA/Mythic, you accept the when you hit "accept terms of the EULA/COC" when entering the game, your house is part of that agreement and as such they can do what the hell the like with it. If you dont agree, then you are follish for clicking the button in the first place!

No, no, no, when DAOC shuts down everything vanishes in a puff of virtual smoke. This is the situation where DAOC is still a current game and for me the house thing is simply about whether I'm likely to play the game again or not. Most games keep people's characters indefinitely when their subs lapse for the good reason that players often return, but very few players would return if their characters have been deleted. Houses, armour, weapons are a step down from that, but its a big deterrant to returning if your character's stuff has gone. It may be silly, but it influences people. In another game I've seen very active players quit overnight simply because their character's name was changed a bit.

Simple fact, I saw a post on here that seemed to imply that they had decided not to delete houses on Dyvet. Instantly I went from I will never play DAOC again to thinking is it true they are keeping the houses, and having a serious think about what it would be like to pop back and see how the game feels...

And the 'current players may want your plot' is a damn good argument for crowded servers, but anyone using it about Dyvet has not looked at the number of players on Dyvet in the last year.

By the way, I see some games offering lifetime subs and I have to cynically think, well its just not real, it can't be. Eventually a game is in its twilight years, no new players, all the remaining players are on lifetime subs, its not seriously going to keep running for ever even if there are no changes or support. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[leviathane]

so how does this house malarkey work then? I've reactivated the other week for some reason, and my houses are saying they're being repossessed in like 60days

 

[SoulFly]

I've talked to Roaken about it and it's disabled for EU servers. The messages just are there. He told me that he'll forward the issue to the coding team to see what they can do to it.